US approves sale of F-16s to Pakistan

nice move.frankly i think it really clears up everything about the US foreign policy regarding india.

now wait a minute is it the same US of A that is fighting for 'democracy' in iraq?hmm...

f-16 deal is really nothing in terms of what india have but it does have a significant importance in the US-indo relations.
i remember condi rice trying to persuade india not to go ahead with the iran-india oil pipeline.wondering what would have happened if india bowed.
i'm glad though that USA is showing it's true face finally.US interests 1 even at the expense of arming taliban like extremists.i mean there is a paper(by the CIA if i'm not mistaken) predicting that pakistan will be a failed state by 2015 .now who will take control of the pak f-16s in event of it's realisation?
as a dog returneth to his vomit,so a fool returneth to his folly.-proverbs 26:11
think about it.

wait on..us are offering india block 60 F-16's, and 126 of them and they will be produced in india

they are only selling 24 block 30 F-16's to pak.

F-18 e/f are also on offer to india.

www.indiadaily.com...

www.cnn.com...





[edit on 26-3-2005 by Stealth Spy]

US also announced the offer to India for the co-production of F-18 fighter jets to India, which follows the decision of F-16 deal with Pakistan. Indian would be licensed by the United States to produce at least six times the number of planes that would have been sold to Pakistan.

"The United States government has now conveyed that it has approved participation of US defence companies in the bidding for the Multi-Role Combat Aircraft. A US team is expected to visit India shortly to hold discussions

Sarna said the US government has conveyed that it has approved participation of US defense companies in the bidding for the "multi role combat aircraft."

"A US team is expected to visit India shortly to hold discussions", said Sarna.

The US offer includes co-production of F-18 fighter jets in India with license to produce at least six times the number of planes that would have been sold to Pakistan.

Besides the US has also proposed a Joint Working Group on Space Cooperation, which India has said "a positive development and opens up a new and promising area for high technology cooperation.

The F-18 Hornets is a two-engined long-range tactical strike aircraft and is superior to the F-16. In the United States, the F-18 is the mainstay of the US Naval airpower. The F-18 can cover several thousand miles for bombing operations and in terms of speed and manoeuvrability; it is far superior to the F-16.

The nuclear energy was one of the major subjects that were discussed between Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh and Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice during her recent visit to New Delhi. Although Pentagon has not made known the parameters for sale of nuclear technology to India, informed sources said that it would be worked out shortly.

Sarna said the US also promised to upgrade nuclear and space cooperation with India.

"We have been informed that the US government is considering offering civilian nuclear energy and nuclear safety cooperation to India. These subjects were discussed during the visit of the Secretary of State on March 16, 2005. The decision by the US administration to move forward on nuclear energy cooperation is welcome and reflects an understanding of India's growing energy requirements," Sarna said.

"The United States has proposed a joint working group on space cooperation between our two countries. This is a positive development and opens up a new and promising area for high technology cooperation," Sarna added.

On the other hand, the Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed called Bush's decision "a good gesture" and said that the decision showed that the relations were growing stronger.

"There is a good news that American government has decided to give F-16s to Pakistan. We desired to have this and the credit goes to General Musharraf as he took Pakistan-American relationship to that stage where we are now getting the latest models of F -16. Earlier we had models of F-16, A and B. Now we are getting the latest models C and D and that too in unlimited numbers and this will help upgrade our air force. This takes America-Pakistan relations to a new height and will help improve America's image in the country." Rasheed said during a TV interview.

Rasheed added that neighbouring countries should not protest against the deal as it involved Pakistan's security concerns.

"We welcome this and no neighbouring country should protest this as this is our defence need, which America has fulfilled," he added.

A senior Bush administration official said the F-16 sale to Pakistan, which was blocked for 15 years, "will not change the overall balance of power" between Pakistan and India

www.webindia123.com...

india has the Su-30 MKI, perhaps the most ultimate evolution of the flanker.

its better than even the best F-15.it's got better TVC, menuverability and a better radar than the F-22(but is not stealthy)


check it out : vayu-sena.tripod.com...

it combines the best of russian, french, israeli, indian tech.

india's mig-21's upgraded and stealthy adre better than pakistani block F-16's which they have >> read my 4th and 6th post in www.abovetopsecret.com...


india's indegenous LCA is better than pak's F-16's they are getting >> www.abovetopsecret.com...'



[edit on 26-3-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Stealth Spy,

The MKI does not have a better radar or TVC engines than the F-22. Don't exaggerate foolishly.

pakistan is a militory dictatorship that sponsors terrorism, proliferates nukes.


Read :
Osama Being Treated by PAK Army >> www.armyinkashmir.org...

Read : Numbers of pakistani terrorists >> www.armyinkashmir.org...

Pakistan sponspored terrorism >> www.armyinkashmir.org...

Check out : www.armyinkashmir.org...

Read every section and understand the magnitude of Pakistan's ills so that you can change your views and become aware of the truth.

Deny ignorance

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
Stealth Spy,

The MKI does not have a better radar or TVC engines than the F-22. Don't exaggerate foolishly.

the MKI has virtual 3D tvc. but the F-22 has only 2D tvc. read the part about tvc of the mki in the article i have posted above.

the mki's radar is 5th gen, and was supposed to be used on the Mig-1.44.
its tracking range is greater than the F-22's radar.

also the mki has longer range weapons than the F-22, and has rear firing ability.


and about pakistan's nuke proliferation check out :


www.globalsecurity.org...

to iran >> www.globalsecurity.org...

to north korea >> www.globalsecurity.org...

to libya >> www.globalsecurity.org...

the pakistani AF is currently the largest truckload of crap. the F-16's are block 15, that were sold to them in 1982.

Pakistani AF inventory


Pakistan will be a failed state by 2015 : CIA >> source

i think buying f-16s is not really going to happen.russia might not take it well and no point in relying on same country which supplies to pak.why wreck relations with a permanent ally for someone most of us really don't trust?
france and russia will deifnitely compete with the US to supply the 126 planes indian air force asked for.i believe the best move right now is to work on MCA and not let f-16 deal get into our heads.i frankly believe this is a purposeful move by the US to spark off an arms race and forcing us to spend more money in defence allocations.good move really considering US needs to constrain both indian and chinese economies.china will try to catch up if we try to induct something new.pitting these countries against each other will definitely put a strain on the economy.thus at the end of the day,US arms dealers will have a new market and the US sphere of influence will grow in asia and we'll be opening the gates for all that so that they can simply stab us again when it suits their interests.
i hope no one ignores this side of the story.
at the end of it all,i have to say sorry but i believe india should put it's money on fifth gen planes rather than in US admin's pockets.as far as f-16 deal to india goes regardless of what we think i don't think india will buy them unless...there's some dramatic shift in new delhi's policy and considering it's a congress led govt. having communist left as a crucial ally in power right now' don't see that radical power shift happening.i might be wrong of course.









[edit on 26-3-2005 by charon]

Well I am not at all surprised at this decision

This is another example of the US double standards

they were the first to drop atom bombs ...and now they are so concerned about Global peace

they are the "Protectors of Democracy" again they are the ones supporting Gen Parvez Musharaff...the army general who forcefully and illegally over threw the Pak President

and now they are supplying F16s to Pak and says Pak has been more "democratic" in recent years ...I m sure 80% of the Pak public has no essence of the word democracy...others might have read it in books

again its a well known fact that if there is any country which is now the home ground of Al Kaida and other terrorist groups then its Pakistan


Now here is the reason of India getting Concerned in spite of having more superior fighters
1 this move by the US will induce "Arms race" between the two countries ...and the only party that will b in short-term benefit will be the US
( in long term they will create another Bin laden)

2 Russian supplied aircrafts are superior to F 16 ...this point is very clear to indian military experts ....but what about the 100 00 00 000 ignorant Indian voter ? most of them are completely ignorant about these military issues ...all they know is today Russia is a dead country while US has the best Weapons ...and the Indian political system is such that the politicians will b forced to go for the inferior US weapons just to pritect their Vote bank .....

People like Stealth Spy(and other Members of this forum who tend to understand a bit of weapon tech etc ) form a microscopic minority of the Indian Vote Bank may be 1 in 10 00 000....

my questions to Indians in This forum....... am I right?

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
Stealth Spy,

The MKI does not have a better radar or TVC engines than the F-22. Don't exaggerate foolishly.

To show a sense of fairness, I voted you "way above" on this post - because you also showed something I hadn't seen before.

yea you are right prelude.that's exactly what i pointed out in my previous posts.
now something about the f-18 hornets offered to india.hornets costs about 70 million compared to 30 something of french mirages and sukhois about 40+ i reckon.now there is also a serious concern about the supply of defense spare parts and though hornet is a good jet i don't believe we might need it considering we have the MKIs even if we get the license to build them here.

the 126 air planes needed might simply be something more than a replacement to the mig 21 and 25s.nothing beyond that.there might be no need to spend so much for the f-18 class fighter when we're already working on su-37/47 in collaboration with the russians and of course on MCA.

the fifth generation fighters are the ones i will place my bet on considering that there're indigenously built and hence no dependence on foreign spares.

i do know that it might take till 2015 for the MCAs to get inducted(if everything works according to the plan) and 126 are just something to fill in the gaps.so the rational question would be to ask if india is ready to spend 70 million on a f-18 hornet strike fighter?anyone wanna answer?


[edit on 27-3-2005 by charon]

Us offering the F-18 E/F suprhornets as well....
And Lockheed says they'll build special block 70 F-16s for India..
Prelude Indian military purchases are not left in the hands of the voters of the Indian community but the very same defence analysts you spoke off..
There is a well-oiled system in place which wviews all the tenders and scrutinizes them w.r.t. price, availability, existing infrastructure, future strategic alliances and possibility of future sanctions..
The media is also not dumb to these matters and the indian public is not as ignorant as you may assume..
Its not just about buying the best fighter here anymore..there's much more at stake involving future deals/alliances/tech transfers etc..

And btw how many countries operate the superhornets..?

The US have also commented on the sale:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
And btw how many countries operate the superhornets..?

I know we do.

Yeah I thought Aus and Canada used em'..

I am sure that only the USA operates the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

I think all the export versions so far suppplied to Canada, Australia, Spain etc the old F/A-18A/B version which is vastly inferior and about 25 years old.

[edit on 28-3-2005 by waynos]

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004
Stealth Spy,

The MKI does not have a better radar or TVC engines than the F-22. Don't exaggerate foolishly.

F-22 uses the ESRA modified AESA version of phased array radars right?
The debate about whether the NO-11M was equivalent to the AESA ended inconclusively...

What radar does the F18 and the F16 incorporate?
If its the AESA and if the IAF is buying em' then all queries of this sort will be sorted out..
Btw I think Malaysia has F-18s as well...
MALAYSIA!! Good ol' anti-american Malaysia..

Originally posted by waynos
I mat be wrong here but I am sure that only the USA operates the F/A-18E/F?

Aren't all the export versions so far suppplied to Canada, Australia, Spain etc the old F/A-18A/B version?

ahh!!..yes.. this is what the Indian papers must have been referring to in terms of uniqueness of the superhornet offer..
hmmm...Interesting..
Now I'm not so sure if the indians should turn the americans down on their offer..
Its much more than just buying the overall best aircraft..
The future of the subcontinent (and Asia) is unfolding in a very twisted manner!!