How Do You Act Against Dishonesty?

a reply to: MatterIsLight

In all honesty
it depends on the relationship I have with the person. If it is a person outside of my family I may just indulge them by just listening to them and exit the conversation when I realize they are liars. If it is my immediate family then no; they are called out for it and there is a BIG conversation to be had….
ETa: my family and I are brutally honest to a fault- good or bad we absolutely expect honesty and love each other for it.

However people react to a dishonest person, it should be with the knowledge you're dealing with a very serious character issue. I mention this in that the usual, modern view of lying is that it's bad, but it's not murder sort of thinking. Many politicians are allowed to be compulsive liars, that engage in a career of guile and tickling ears. They sucker an election win that they're George Washington, redux, by a fake image, then, once elected, can't stuff their share of corrupt K Street money into their pockets fast enough, in the case of Democrats of today vote with a herd of evil, destructive and un-American whackjobs, purveyors of hate, the likes of racial strife, for gain.

Being a Christian, I've found in scripture that liars are mentioned as the worst of the worst more than murderers, and even in the same breath:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And have you noticed what liars serious criminals are, to the man? Or, you think those little slander tidbits are just gossip?

Romans 1:28-30 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents.

Notice above how gossips and slanderers are, explicitly, in the same category as murderers.

Lastly, in God's economy, all liars go to hellfire:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I won't have a friend or willingly be in the company of a practicing liar, at all. In the Psalms, King David wouldn't sit down with a liar. When it comes to sin, one cannot practice sin and be of good character: you can’t be a little pregnant. Either one sees lying as evil, or one sees nothing at all.

I just wanted to point these things out, the darkness and the serious evil of being a liar, as the liar can be the tip of the iceberg to things inside a person you'd not give a pass on, nor can a liar be trusted in any regard to be considered a friend or even good company. No good fruit comes from a bitter root.

Thought I'd add that lying to people is also such utter, in-your-face disrespect. The liar is saying I'm smart, you're dumb, and I can fool you, and obviously doesn't care that they would make a fool of you.

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: MatterIsLight

i think it depends vastly on the circumstances but i tend to confront lies head on.

You’ve obviously never dealt with a pathological liar then. Calling them out on their lies only infuriates them more and produces more lies.

Exactly with we are seeing with the left. Big tip here, they do NOT respond to logic and reasoning, at all ! The only thing they will and want to respond to are emotional responses and they will try and often succeed in pulling you into that fray. This is what makes it difficult once you let that happen.

Once you stay aware of this you will notice that you will stick to the logic and reason of the matter which is the only approach towards a solution which they do not want btw but will in many ways become unavoidable even for them. Even when they verbally deny all the points they are then mentally very aware of it. You will see a internal struggle/confusion at this point. They will deny it for themselves for hours - days - months or even years and the rest of their lives for some but you will reach some of them and at the least it will remain in their minds. They wont be able to forget.

What they then do with that is out of your hands and you not need to worry about that (to much). From that point on as that is in some ways out of your hands. When this is not just a 1 on one discussion you will reach people who are witnessing the discussion or partaking in it. You actually force all that are involved to think about it whether they want to or not and one of the other important key factors is that because of this approach you don't let yourself be dragged away from your point and pulled into confusion to the point where you do not know what else you can do or say about it.

Some will dig deeper into their denial and thus into their conviction but that will have a expiration date that can take a long time in some cases but again that is outside of your control an so you should not worry more or to much about that.

But that is just my take on it.

originally posted by: MatterIsLight
...
but they will tell even small lies that don't seem to have a purpose for them making that decision to be dishonest.

The first woman I ever loved was exactly... exactly... like this.

I had never encountered anyone like this. It took me over a year to suspect, and another year to confirm it for myself. I took so long because - now that I think about it - I had possibly started becoming like her - lying to myself, because I simply didn't want to believe it about her. Thankfully, something happened that brought things to a head, and the sickness ended.

Should we lie to the person who is lying to us?
...
Should we avoid the person who is lying to us?

I would never, ever, knowingly be around someone like this in my personal life. If you have no choice being around someone like this in your work, then I would simply do everything in my power to avoid having to deal with them, and ignore them the rest of the time. If they were my boss, I'd probably just find another job.

The real truth is easy to remember dishonesty isn't.


Acting against is just pushing people away that are dishonest.


Better to have a handful of honest friends, than 100's of BS'ers.

a reply to: MatterIsLight

Should we lie to the person who is lying to us?

No. Pathological liars quite often consider all others to be liars. If you lie to them then that just gives them a reason to consider you to be a liar all the more.

Should we avoid the person who is lying to us?

If at all possible.

Is there any way to win when a person in your life is dishonest?

The only way to win is to get yourself completely away. Temporary separation is merely a temporary victory, but better than nothing.

One of the things about pathological liars is they spin such tales of victimization. My ex-fiancé was quite often down at the local tavern spinning yarns. That resulted in "heroes" pumped up on testosterone and alcohol vandalizing my property. I figured that eventually some "hero" would decide to "rid her of her villain with violence", so I dropped her off in another town, went down to the tavern and offered $50.00 to anyone there who desired to "save her" by taking her in. None of the would be heroes took me up on the offer.

And then I lived happily ever after.
The End.

------
See also: How Do I Cope with Someone Being a Pathological Liar?

The funny thing is as a male, when you become physically weak, the toxic people around you become like a pack of hyenas.

Forget violins and clasped hands.
No, every lying predator wants to get every last bit of misery and supply out of you.
And you're just giving, and endlessly forgiving, because you don't want to die alone, or with enemies.

I guess they never counted on the HIV-meds being so effective, and I've risen like a phoenix from the ashes.

Am I out for revenge?
Not really.
But they all buggered off and keep their distance, just in case.
Now that I saw what they were - good riddance.

I would avoid you as well lol.

HIV dude. That’s rough.

I’m glad your tormentors showed their cruel underbellies when they thought you were on the out and you now get to get back to living.

a reply to: halfoldman

a reply to: MatterIsLight

These are not people who do it to get out of trouble or to escape from being embarrassed, but they will tell even small lies that don't seem to have a purpose for them making that decision to be dishonest.

I think a point you are missing is that if they are truly pathological liars, there is no decision being made. There is no conscious thought on the subject at all. They lie because that is what they do. Its who they are.

If you can cut them out of your life, sure!

However if you can't, cell phones are a GLORIOUS thing. Records the spewed lies with great accuracy.
& yes I know recording can be illegal in certain states.

Personally I confront lies/liars head on. Matter of factly, no emotion.
While that type of manipulation works for them with some people, it becomes unpleasant for them anywhere near me.
They usually wander off to go sow their crap with a easier audience.

Think of it like the line at the DMV...you an your crap need to stay BEHIND the line!

a reply to: Scrutinizing

Hey, being the same way I have come to the same voice. I also found that scripture, however, mine is from an authentic Aramaic manuscript. I need to post to you first, before anything, to remind you of how much the Roman Catholic church as lied to the world ever since it's origins. Since I am a servant of the truth, I called James Jacob, his real name. But the Roman Catholics don't even know what I am talking about because they learn the exact point of this post - lies. I put faith in the words "The Truth shall set you free" even when my heart was broken from learning the truth. Why? Because my faith is smaller than yours. Those who have ears, let them hear.

Is a lie really a lie if the person thinks it is the truth no matter how wrong they are? I really think people truly believe what they are saying as I sit confounded that they would even think such things much less lie about it.

I have read all the replies and I thank you all, today was a learning experience and it fills my heart with joy and the substance of truth.

I was taught when I put down the worldly beliefs of the same origin and I was surprised to see scripture that spoke, Out of all the important virtues in life Truth is more important than Love. Something to think about.

When I calculate the average of feedback from the thread the most agreed option is to fully separate myself from those people who are being dishonest to me. This is the path I am taking.

At the age of 39, it has taken me all of those years finally, to understand that I was an adopted child my mom did not want. My actual person, is not the person why mom had imagine getting. The way my family was when my dad was alive, was my dad and I, and my sister and my mom. In my crazy circumstances, I am one of the unlucky ones who has to separate from my so called family. You don't know how deep it has been, but all of my aunts, uncles, and cousins are not speaking to me for a reason I am aware of. Beyond that, my own Godmother deserted me 15 years ago and didn't tell the family why.

Not planned forever, but I shut off contact. It took 14 days, and today, coincidence being the 4th of July, I am starting to feel Free. I acted on the truth, and Truth Will set me Free. I am feeling something that I have rarely felt in 39 years - I am allowed to be me. So I can work on my destiny.

The only disturbance is that my roommate is the one who is the compulsive liar. Now these people can be very smart and extremely cunning, they are completely aware of all they are doing and it brings them joy. Luckily I have learned how not to argue with people, in fact I do say that I just an not convinced or, I say that I just don't know and walk away.

Truly, if I say one small lie, does that mean I fear the truth? I will not fear the Truth, for anyone. However, there is a truth I have learned - a lie is not condemned if it is justified, for example, if you lie to save a persons life in some weird circumstance, it is justified and the lie told will not be wrong in any way and you would truly be a hero for lying in that weird scene.

I once heard a great bit of advice from the late Dr. Wayne Dyer....

"If you are faced with the choice to be right, or to be kind, always choose kind"

Jesus will sort out the rest...

a reply to: MatterIsLight
🙏❤
I found myself there along that path. You will too!

If you're in any position to pursue a study course to focus on, because things anticipated tend to happen rather slow and infrequent, stay the footing used to step away.

You be the wooden spoon instead of the stirred pot.


eta
The name of the game is manipulation, either take part or do not.