Do Atheists believe in Eternity?

If I were to be asked to prove that I am an atheist, my line of reasoning would be something like this:

1) I don't feel, see, or believe in eternity.

2) All of the accepted Western theisms start with the proposition that God is an eternal, unchanging character who created everything visible and invisible.

3) I don't believe the proposition outlined in 2) so therefore I am an Atheist.

No matter how many temporal deities I may have, I am still an atheist because my temporal deities don't promise eternal life, nor do they claim to be immortal, nor unchanging.

a reply to: pthena

Are we talking about things like the wormhole aliens in deep space nine?

a reply to: wheresthebody

Are we talking about things like the wormhole aliens in deep space nine?

I don't know. I can't really remember what all their attributes were. Cubes?

Now I'll have to look it up.

a reply to: pthena

They were aliens that lived inside a wormhole that existed outside of time that were worshipped as gods even though they were just a different, older kind of life.

That was such a great show.

a reply to: pthena

And just for the sake of it, as an atheist I do believe in the idea of "eternity" but I don't think we really have a firm grasp on what exactly "space time" is yet.

a reply to: pthena



You have temporal deities?

Did they come inside a box of Kellogs?

a reply to: pthena
Doesn't it depend partly on your definition of "eternity"?
Someone could aay "I think the universe is eternal, and I call myself an atheist".
In fact he would probably have to believe in the eternity of the universe, as the only way to get around the question of how the universe came into existence.
As Cicero used to say, everything comes to a stop if there isn't an "unmoved mover" to keep things going.

I thnk when I called myself an atheist I was actually an Epicurean (any gods that may exist are not relevant).

a reply to: pthena

do people actually think they get to live forever?

no. "atheists" generally don't believe in an afterlife.

when you die, that's game over.
there isn't a white tunnel or 72 virgins, it's over.

hope you had fun, but there isn't anything else.
not even some twit in a robe to tell you that there isn't some "afterlife".

you die, that's the end.

a reply to: wheresthebody

So I looked up the definitive summary on Wormhole Aliens (highlights mine).

Origin: The Bajoran wormhole. Non-corporeal, non-linear telepathic race who built the wormhole adjoining Bajor some 10,000 years ago and worshiped by the natives there as "The Prophets" because of it and the orbs they sent out as contact probes.

They viewed humanoids as aggressive, malevolent, and adversarial corporeals at first: use of the wormhole disrupted their own existence, and they initially found humanoids' tactile sensation, emotions, and linear existence of past, present and future inconceivable.

In their first contact with the Federation, they took on human forms from Ben Sisko's memory to communicate and understand linear corporeals. Their irritation over the wormhole's use was short-lived, since the contact with Commander Sisko leads to an historic agreement allowing Bajor oversight of the Gamma Quadrant tunnel. Because of this exposure, they viewed Sisko as their "emissary" to the Bajorans and in 2374 preserved his life — and the entire Alpha Quadrant's independence — by defeating the entire invading Dominion fleet that would have overrun it.

Some theists who claim an eternal, unchanging God who deals in immutable laws have a book, commonly referred to as the Bible. Parts of the book are a narrative form of story telling.

At one time the god says, (paraphrase) "You people are my special people. I am your king, so don't go having kings like regular nations do."

Then the people say, "No. We want a king like the regular nations."

So the god says, "Well, alrighty then."

Then later, after one aborted attempt at dynasty choosing, he's all like "You, my chosen dynasty founder, will have an eternal dynasty."

Of course that was after said dynasty founder proposed building a stone temple for the god, and he said "No, I don't want any stone temple".

Stone temples were all the rage among the nations at that time.

So the Wormhole Aliens, able to be influenced by Sisko are very much like the Bible narrative God who gets influenced by his worshipper's demands. Unchanging doesn't seem to fit well.

a reply to: 19Bones79

You have temporal deities?

Sure.

Did they come inside a box of Kellogs?

I don't answer that question because box of Kellogs has some secret code meaning to some people and I'm not privy to the secret code. Answering the question may expose me to snickers. Yeah, candy bar anyone?

There are two things that we cannot fathom. Eternity, and nothing.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Doesn't it depend partly on your definition of "eternity"?

Yes. But I can't find a suitable definition for eternity.

Some people take God as a priori existing, then place Him outside of time, thus establishing the extemporal, which they refer to as eternity.

I thnk when I called myself an atheist I was actually an Epicurean (any gods that may exist are not relevant).

That's close to my way of thinking. However, in my opinion, Epicurus did not refute the necessities of the gods, only whether the gods were focused upon human behavior in a "smite you or bless you based on your actions" sort of way. They were too busy doing important stuff.

a reply to: pthena
The question is too general.

The only thing atheists have in common is that they lack belief in deities. Other than that, we are as varied in our opinions as any other group. I personally don't have a belief about "eternity" (whatever that is).

If you are asking if I think there is eternal life after an earthly life, then I would have to say I don't know. I see eternal life the same way I see the concept of God. I have no conclusive evidence, so although I lack any belief in either, I can't say neither exists, because again, I don't know.

a reply to: pthena

I exist, therefore, I am.
Existence persisted before me, and will continue to exist after me. Existence doesn't require my observation to be

Consciousness is a thing, because I'm conscious, somewhat.
Consciousness isn't specific to only me. It exists without me, before I did, and will be after I am not.

Whether or not these mechanisms, existence and consciousness, are eternal, I don't know. But, I do know they persist beyond me, without me, in space and time.

So, I can't say eternity exists any more than I can God is an eternal, unchanging supreme being that created and controls all of it. But, I tend to lean toward eternity being more "real" than the idea that one supreme being created and controls all existence and consciousness.

a reply to: pthena

Yes, they do

a reply to: Klassified

The question is too general.

I know.

But I am getting a sense of what 'eternal' means.
from wheresthebody:

as an atheist I do believe in the idea of "eternity" but I don't think we really have a firm grasp on what exactly "space time" is yet.

an idea. I take that as an abstraction.

and from you:

I personally don't have a belief about "eternity" (whatever that is).

Back when I had ideas about eternity they were like never-ending time.

I can’t fathom how anyone can not believe in eternity, one way or the other
As a child I imagined everything stopped at a big brick wall, an old brick wall, the universe just stopped there, limited?
Where does time stop, where did it start?

Time (subjective I know) can’t stop, the universe can’t stop
If you can explain otherwise, happy to listen

As hard and as foolish to believe, an eternal creator amongst the eternal, creating from love, doesn’t sound so far fetched

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I like that a lot. The first two paragraphs are worthy of recital as a creed.

If culture did not include the concept of an eternal God, would you think of eternity at all as something to believe in or not?

a reply to: HONROC

Thank you. I gave you a star because it's part of my religion to do so.

a reply to: Raggedyman

As a child I imagined everything stopped at a big brick wall, an old brick wall, the universe just stopped there, limited?

I did too as a child; not a brick wall per se, but ending in something,
since empty space is part of expanding universe,
it can't just end with space because ...

Probably dark matter. Yeah I'll go with that for now, because dark implies undefined, so I needn't explain it.

Okay, I'm no astro-physicist. My imagination has not progressed much.