USA Socialism and our Future.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Do not mistake woke politics with socialism.

There is very, very little promoted by The Democratic Party that even remotely resembles Socialist ideology.

If you think there is I'd sure like you to provide real examples here, I'd love to have a look.

'Half way' to 'Full Socialist'?
How do you work that out?
Again, specific examples would be great.

Do not mistake woke politics with socialism.

Feces by any other name still stinks.

With the reality of human greed, the only solution in a capitalistic economy is regulation. Anything can be regulated even greed. In the whole world right now there are only 2 forms of economies and those are capitalism and socialism with every country including the US being a combination of these 2. Is there another form that could work? Not that I know of. Seems like the best solution is a balance of the 2.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

What the left is pushing isn't socialism, it's (just IMO) a screwed up chimera of Corporatism, Authoritarianism, and Communism that they're trying[ to brand as socialism. Call this CAC chimera False Socialism, if you will. Nothing the twits offer is genuinely socialist, because if it were...Bernie would have won both the nomination and election with ease, he's substantially closer to actually representing the Real McCoy this side of the pond.

It's a different animal they've sold everyone. We already utilize numerous elements of socialist ideals in our country in the public aspect. There's a few more I think would work rather well for us in a Socialism Lite manner (in other words, not as strongly as applied in Europe, and with similar, though not identical benefits)

Ultimately, I don't know for absolute certain what the next decade is going to look like if we don't temper this hard left crap before it gets out of control. Odds are, we're well on our way with losing any and all "leader" status permanently if we stay this route.

a reply to: Nyiah

Conservatism has always been about preserving the "monarchy", to rally up those who like the system that is in place because it most benefits them.
Hard "left" economics and politics have nothing to do with conserving what is currently grasping on to keep totalitarian control, this is why it's called corporate fascism. And it's right before your own eyes, because fascism starts when those who are on the verge of complete dominance will undermine any sort of democracy to stay in power. Call Joe Biden a "lefty", he's not, he is the demigod of destruction and war to rebuild what keeps those who want absolute power, in power.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Can you define Socialism?

or Facisism?
or Communism?

or Authoritarianism?

originally posted by: ras321
With the reality of human greed, the only solution in a capitalistic economy is regulation. Anything can be regulated even greed. In the whole world right now there are only 2 forms of economies and those are capitalism and socialism with every country including the US being a combination of these 2. Is there another form that could work? Not that I know of. Seems like the best solution is a balance of the 2.

Socialist are just as greedy. The only difference is that capitalism allows everyone to be greedy while in socialism, only the elites get to be greedy.

As Gordon Gekko said.... greed is good.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Socialism in most South American countries have been forced to fail, due to sanctions imposed on them led by the U.S. You can believe differently, I really don’t care, but the good ld U.S have too many investments in South America to allow them to be nationalised, for the good of the people.

You mean, you guys aren't already paying before you get paid? Must be some generous gizzillionaires who donate to fix your roads all out of kindness of their own hearts...wait a second, they use aircraft to get to a-b, not the ground like vermin.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Socialism in most South American countries have been forced to fail, due to sanctions imposed on them led by the U.S. You can believe differently, I really don’t care, but the good ld U.S have too many investments in South America to allow them to be nationalised, for the good of the people.

Socialism doesn't work and never will... the big issue with socialism in practice is that it ignores human nature (i.e. greed) so it is not rooted in reality. People are always looking for ways to better their or their family's lot in life. People simply are not equal intellectually or by their willingness to work. As such, socialism never works because it doesn't account for these differences in people.

How about this?

Don't impose a system on me that tells me what I do or don't need or want or may have. Some bureaucrat in an office doesn't know me, doesn't know my family, and has no idea how to answer those questions for me.

That's the problem with your stupid little technocratic society. It presumes that it can do this for everyone so we're all the same and we'll all be happy like that.

a reply to: ketsuko

You live in a society. Civilization wasn't built off the backs of people living on their own 5 acre plots of land and meeting at the barter spot fully loaded with weapons once a month to trade essential goods.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: ketsuko

You live in a society. Civilization wasn't built off the backs of people living on their own 5 acre plots of land and meeting at the barter spot fully loaded with weapons once a month to trade essential goods.

Actually, it was. And don't bring up the mythical social compact. I should have a say as to whether or not I sign myself in to such a thing.

And the interesting thing is that once your socialism works its evil, that's exactly where we will be again.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yea it was, maybe 12,000 years ago when individual tribes or family units started to gather in certain spots for a communal fire to cook and what not.

Libertarian values end when a national boarder is established to protect and serve those who agree to work within the nation itself. It's basic stuff, wealth of nations. Socialism, communism, capitalism, what ever ism you put to it, humans haven't gotten to where are now without collaborating to some certain extent.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Socialism in most South American countries have been forced to fail, due to sanctions imposed on them led by the U.S. You can believe differently, I really don’t care, but the good ld U.S have too many investments in South America to allow them to be nationalised, for the good of the people.

Socialism doesn't work and never will... the big issue with socialism in practice is that it ignores human nature (i.e. greed) so it is not rooted in reality. People are always looking for ways to better their or their family's lot in life. People simply are not equal intellectually or by their willingness to work. As such, socialism never works because it doesn't account for these differences in people.

And that’s exactly why Socialism is doomed to failure from the outset. Greedy capitalist type folk, who are selfish and self preserving always slate it. It’s the antipathy of everything they understand.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Socialism in most South American countries have been forced to fail, due to sanctions imposed on them led by the U.S. You can believe differently, I really don’t care, but the good ld U.S have too many investments in South America to allow them to be nationalised, for the good of the people.

I've heard this tired line so many times , Did the USA force these countries into Socialism ? No it did not.

Nor does the USA have sanctions on every Socialist Country that is hanging on by a thread at this very moment , so please mate give it a rest.

originally posted by: Specimen88
You mean, you guys aren't already paying before you get paid? Must be some generous gizzillionaires who donate to fix your roads all out of kindness of their own hearts...wait a second, they use aircraft to get to a-b, not the ground like vermin.

All Governments Tax there people yes .

A Governments primary function is to maintain a Military so as to Protect it's people , Another Function is to Enforce the law and maintain order . Those are Governmental Functions.

It is not the Function of a Government to tax there Citizens to the Point that they are completely dependent on Government provided services.

Being dependent on your own Government makes a Country and it's people weak and useless.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I don't think we're going to see socialism the way people have been implying. I do however think we've seen something similar and as bad.

With the advent of fiat currency in the US, we handed over our buying power to the government and oligarchs. Every time things start to look bad, we bail out the banks, airlines, and other industries or entities. This last go around the FED (autonomous entity with little or no oversight by elected officials, yet they control our money) started printing money to buy equities.

A private(ish) entity used our nations currency to buy equities that might have failed. Who do you think is on the hook if that goes south? What happens if it doesn't go south but a profit is turned? What happens if those businesses should have failed, but since they got propped up a more competent competitor got snuffed out?

Either way, the idea that we have a free market, and any other idea is socialist is one of the reasons why we're in the mess we are. We get so caught up on buzzwords we don't really examine the ramifications of our incompetent and or malice employees.

Talk to the left, and their opposition is nazi/fascist being puppeteered by Russia. Talk to the right, and their enemy is socialist and trying to implement Maoism. Yet if we take out the political context, every American would tell you we aren't as in good shape as we were a few decades ago. They'd have you believe only their opponents have contributed to the failures we've had. But there is one common variable, and that's that the two have collaborated on a lot of economic policy. They also both share mostly the same donors.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Socialism in most South American countries have been forced to fail, due to sanctions imposed on them led by the U.S. You can believe differently, I really don’t care, but the good ld U.S have too many investments in South America to allow them to be nationalised, for the good of the people.

Socialism doesn't work and never will... the big issue with socialism in practice is that it ignores human nature (i.e. greed) so it is not rooted in reality. People are always looking for ways to better their or their family's lot in life. People simply are not equal intellectually or by their willingness to work. As such, socialism never works because it doesn't account for these differences in people.

And that’s exactly why Socialism is doomed to failure from the outset. Greedy capitalist type folk, who are selfish and self preserving always slate it. It’s the antipathy of everything they understand.

Erm...

So to you, socialism never works because of capitalism?

Because in my viewpoint, socialism never works because it was never meant to work.

That was also the viewpoint of Hegel and Karl Marx.

You know, the ones who quite literally invented the concept.

It is just a way to segue into the next phase, Communism.

Which was just a way for totalitarian regimes to amass all the power to the top .01% (the technocrats ruling the country) and have the rest of the population enslaved by them.

For their own good, of course.

Even Marx knew that human nature would not allow the last part of his plan (the Government, having given the people what they needed, would die on the vine and the people would then take care of themselves) was utter BS.

But capitalism (an ideology that has afforded us a way to make the biggest advancements in science, the arts and technology that the world has ever seen) is bad?

/facepalm

A TINY number like 1.38 million dead from an oh-so-deadly virus : SHUT THE WORLD!!!!!

200 MILLION dead in a single century : “hey, we should give socialism another try!!!!”

a reply to: strongfp

And no one made people stay in those tribes or family units. Socialism today actively seeks to trap its people so they cannot escape it.

Why do you think people actively build rickety rafts and try to float across the sea to Florida? It's not like Cuba is letting them go freely.