Do Muslims believe in hell?

Nygdan, The Islamic leaders THEMSELVES authenticate it. Its in an Islamic museum along side other artifacts from Islam. I don't think your skeptisim matters twat to them.

Please note that there is a massive difference between actions of the FOUNDER of the religion and the followers. Work it out....

This is an officially recognised letter from their founder. I couldn't find a translation on the net (well one I found said Mohammed "encouraged" the people to become Islam) but I have actually read the translation written and posted in the museum in Istanbul.

Originally posted by Nygdan
What is the status of this letter as to authenticity? They have a handwritten letter from a nomadic bedoin from 1,300 years ago? I find that very doubtful.

Undoubtedly, all the judeo-christian religions have forced people to convert to it and sometimes used violence to expand their boundaries.

Netchicken,

Do you have a copy of the actuall Arabic text? I could ask my sister (ME studies doctorial candidate) and fluent both spoken and written Arabic to give a literal translation.

In regrad to the Islam of die, most major religions have an element of that:

From the bible:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

The contex of the document would aso be relevant to the meaning of the text but impossible to determine in this case.

Originally posted by toasted
nygdan,

yeah...but there is a source, a push , being fueled by SUV gas money, a concerted effort to infect the planet, with the intolerant islam...

their agenda is world domination. like the usa would like world freedom [ kinda sorta on their terms ] islam wants submission, to allah

Again, since there is no central coordinating council or anything like that, or since there is no 'islamic vatican' or even a centralization comparable to the patriarchs of the Greek Orthodox church, how can 'islam' be said to do anything?

Every religion, by nature, states that its the correct one and everyone should join it. Islam, you should notice, does not require that one be a muslim to go to heaven tho, non-beleivers merely go thru somehting like purgatory. And islam certainly does not require that all peoples convert. If that were true, then the middle east would be only muslim. It is not. There are strong and thriving christian communities, hindu communities, jewish communities and others, and they've co-existed with islam from the begining. Infact, some have remarked that, even in currently theocratic iran, the Zoroasterians are undergoing a revival and growth.

netchicken
The Islamic leaders THEMSELVES authenticate it

I am curious as to what historians and archaeologists think of it tho, not the religious leaders.

I don't think your skeptisim matters twat to them.

Their religious beleifs matter even less to me. They mean about as much as the baptist who insists that the King James version of the bible is the 'most correct one', or that such and such book was certainly written by such and such apostle.

Nygdan I am amazed at your blinkered view of life.

How can you say that christians live in peace in Islamic lands?
Will you ever see a church in Saudi Arabia. Have you not heard of whole christian villages in Indonesia being attacked, or chrisian communities in Northern Africa being massacred.

I even know a christian coptic family who fled Egypt because they were afraid of the perecution and their daughters getting raped by Islamic men. This was allowed in their culture because of their religion.

I could give you 100's of articles on the net about it.
This is just an example www.findarticles.com...
Just a little googling will bring them up. Islam in the west suffers very little in comparison to Christianity in the East. To assert otherwise displays an agenda that is far from the truth.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Every religion, by nature, states that its the correct one and everyone should join it. Islam, you should notice, does not require that one be a muslim to go to heaven tho, non-beleivers merely go thru somehting like purgatory. And islam certainly does not require that all peoples convert. If that were true, then the middle east would be only muslim. It is not. There are strong and thriving christian communities, hindu communities, jewish communities and others, and they've co-existed with islam from the begining. Infact, some have remarked that, even in currently theocratic iran, the Zoroasterians are undergoing a revival and growth.

Fred, sorry I don't have any pics, or otherwise of the letter. It is accessable via google. (follow the link above) but I didn't see a translation. The Islamic museum had it along side a tooth by Mohammad and I think a lock of his hair.

But I read the translation very carefully when I was there, as I was interested to read what the actual founder was like. I would assume that as the Arabic hasn't changed much over the years owing to the koran being wirtten in classical arabic, that if there was a discrepancy in the translation and the actual text, it would have been quickly picked up in the last 1500 odd years.

[edit on 21-3-2005 by Netchicken]

[edit on 21-3-2005 by Netchicken]

You have to count in the following the islamic world in general is in its Dark age as the west had a 1000 years ago. If you look at the history of people in economic difficult times people resort to radicalism. There arent allot of attacks by muslims on christians through. If you pay more attention to what happend to muslims themselves allot of the attacks of muslims were done against fellow muslims.

There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. They could if they wanted to wipe out all the non muslims in the countries in which they are a majority or where they are the wealthy part of the population.

ok, as a muslim, i am reading some of the comments here and felt i had to reply.
Conversion is NOT the aim of muslims. Honestly. We dont care whether you convert or not, its not our policy. Quote from the Qur'an:

"Say: O ye who reject faith. I worship not that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which i worship. To you be your way, and to me, mine"
(109:1,2 and 6)
There is another verse which says:
"there is no compulsion in religion"

Also would like to point out that all the quotes people make about killing unbelievers, are ALWAYS taken out of context. Once read properly, one can see that it always refers to wars. It quite clearly says in the Qur'an, that Allah does not like aggressors.

In regard to heaven and hell. Yes, there is a hell. Interestingly enough, the deepest level, is reserved not for unbelievers, but for muslims who have been hypocritical in their religion.

By the way, this is my first post ever on ATS. Woo Hoo !

Just to let you all know, the Anti-Chirst already roams this world and God is hell-bent on ruining her life.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Just to let you all know, the Anti-Chirst already roams this world and God is hell-bent on ruining her life.

So whats her number then? I have an opening for dinner next week. Maybe with you as go-between we could set something up???

Originally posted by Netchicken
Nygdan I am amazed at your blinkered view of life.

How can you say that christians live in peace in Islamic lands?

Because they can and are and have been an do. Not everywhere and not all the time, but generally they do. Look at the assyrian christians in iraq. Or the iraqi jews. Or the christians in lebanon, or the christians in egypt and north africa and the horn. Or the christians that live in the various 'stans. I'm not saying that there is allways amicable relations and peace, but the fact is, islam hasn't tried to wipe out religions like christianity, judaism, zoroasterianism, hinduism and buddhism even in their own borders. Different regimes at different times have been more oppressive, but that doesn't mean that its eternal and system wide. US internment of japanese in WWII doesn' t mean that japanese americans are oppressed by the system today, or before that, or will allways be so in the future.

Will you ever see a church in Saudi Arabia. Have you not heard of whole christian villages in Indonesia being attacked, or chrisian communities in Northern Africa being massacred.

And I've heard of christians doing the same, but I know that that doesn't mean 'christianity' has some central committe that seeks to destroy islam or that christian communities refuse to live in peace with islam

This was allowed in their culture because of their religion.

Allowed in the culture, perhaps, but not the religion. Islam doesn't require violence in their holy books. Its patently obvious that it doesn't, or else these communities wouldn't even exist, considering that the muslims have ruled over those territories for over a thousand years.

Islam in the west suffers very little in comparison to Christianity in the East. To assert otherwise displays an agenda that is far from the truth.

I do not have an agenda, I have a perspective and education on the matter. The west is more tolerant of islam now. In the past, a muslim in the west had more to fear than a christian in the east. Today times are different, and its islam that is in a dark age or irrationality.