Do Muslims believe in hell?

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posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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I would like to know if Muslims have a hell in the Koran. If not, where do all the evil people go when they die?




posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Here is a link I found.

www.stmarycoptorthodox.org...

So it looks like they do.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 01:40 AM
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beyond this ; [ WARNING, THREAD DRIFT ]

" It is Islamic ideology that the world is divided into two: The Islamic “Dar e-Salaam” or House of Islam or House of Peace. Opposing this “Dar e-Salaam” is the “Dar e-Harb” or House of War into which all infidels fall. There can be no peace for Islam until the entire “Dar e-Harb” falls to the “Dar e-Salaam”. So this is a fight to the finish. Islam must be victorious or be vanquished. Since Islam’s victory calls on the inevitable destruction of all infidels..... Either the world deals with Islam, or Islam will deal with the world. In this sense, there is no difference between Islam, Nazism and Communism as exclusive world domination systems."

I don't know a whole lot more.

except that I believe, a not very well known thought , on the origin of the koran. which believes the koran was written by a jewish "man of letters" or an orthodox equivalent under threat of death after being kidnapped.

because the arabs of ancient mecca and medina were illiterate, and because the koran contains jewish numerologies, and because the koran has deletions in its' text. apparantly the deletions were to clean up some inconsistencies. the deletions were discoverd by college students in the 80's or 90's. it was published in atlantic magazine [ I think ] sorry...I don't have any links...they got lost during a crash.

why do I bring up the deletions ? muslims say their book has NEVER been changed...sorry , but it has thousands of omissions !

anyways...on with a cpl more tidbits on the koran [ sorry for the drift ]
mohammed was intelligent but illiterate as well. in addition , he suffered from epileptic type seizures and hallucinations. [ not that, in and of itself is no big problem] however , when you couple it with his own words. that he hears the voices of the jins. there are good jins and there are bad jins, and sometimes I cannot tell the difference ! [ well there's a ringing endorsement for the word of mohammed ] NOT !

and then there is this. " the jews and the christians are friends with each other, whoever befriends them will become one of their number, allah does not guide the wrongdoer "

so, becoming a friend of a jew or a christian is a wrongdoing ? does that sound like a loving god to you ?

sorry for ranting like this

but my point is this...you are concerned about their belief in hell...[ OK, FINE ] I think the koran has much bigger problems than its' belief, or not, of hell.

kinda like wondering about the color of the lugnuts of the cars involved in a wreck as opposed to wondering how did the accident occur.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:26 AM
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Cmon dude. Bash Islam in another thread. Would a loving God send 42 Bears to maul a group of children for making fun of a bald prophets head? I dono, but it happenend in the Old Testament.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Cmon dude. Bash Islam in another thread. Would a loving God send 42 Bears to maul a group of children for making fun of a bald prophets head? I dono, but it happenend in the Old Testament.

could you please post the book chapter and verse of what you have said? it is not something i recall ever reading myself.

it was my understanding after listening to some muslems and christions on belhalf of the muslems speak that:
1) yes they are supost to convert all of the pagens, by whatever means nesisary. (kinda sounds like some old catholic reasoning, convert or be put to the torch)
2) as a means to do this they should alow no religion to be practiced but there own except "the people of the book", (which we were told was to mean both christians and jews). and that as such they were to feel free to charge a special tax to be alowed to worship.
if that is not correct then these mulims have been telling bald faced lies about their religion. unfortunately that can be explained with any means necisary.
i have to agree that this does sound bad for all non musdlems of the world. seriousely how can you expect someone to revere and worship a god that is not of their own chooseing? will they just not go underground to worship their own god(s

at anyrate you can not force people to worship as you want them to they will not love your god(s) they will hate and revile them. instead you should encourage them and show them how you think that they are wrong. not force them.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 03:07 AM
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Am a muslim so i think i can answer this question. Yes off course we blieve in hell. Yeh, the bad guys go to hell and the good guys go to heaven. Not i dont know about the 42 or 45 bears in the old tes. we never use this to example to put other religions down.


Dudes. please when u research to start bashing islam, check out some valid non baised sources.

And if u hate islam by nature then i prefer u adding this to the end of ur post.

(i hate islam and even if i read good things about it i will still right the only bad things for i hate islam without knowing alot about it and i will always do)



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by simtek 22
I would like to know if Muslims have a hell in the Koran. If not, where do all the evil people go when they die?


Yes, Muslims believe in Hell, the typical Hellfire, people burning for all eternity and all that.
A lot of things can get you there, but also a lot of those things can be forgiven if one truly repents. Forgivness and Heaven are not limited to muslims only, people of other religions can be forgiven and live in eternal happiness if they lead a righteous life and repent their sins according to their respective beliefs:


Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve. - Chapter 2, Verse 62



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by drogo
could you please post the book chapter and verse of what you have said? it is not something i recall ever reading myself.


Sorry, it was actually 2 bears that mauled 42 children.


Elisha and the Two Bears
(2 Kings 2:23-25)

23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. 25 And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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Conversion to islam is only legitimate when its under theire own will.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Sorry, it was actually 2 bears that mauled 42 children.

Elisha and the Two Bears
(2 Kings 2:23-25)
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. 25 And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.



ok thank you for correcting yourself and suppling where it was found.

ok more than 42 boys telling god's chosen pophet to take a hike. you ask "more than 42?" well it is stated "42 of their number" this implys there were more than 42 present at the time.

now he curses them in the name of god, and 2 female bears apear and maul 42 of them. this is incredible were they possibly held imobile when the bears attacked? if not how did the bears manage to catch 42 of them if they ran? if they did not run do you not think that with 21/bear they should have been able to kill the bears? i would think that at least some of them were armed with at least knives. ( i realy haven't studied this time period but in the medieval time most people except for the very young or poor would always have at least a sharp knife on them for eating at the least). the point that 42 were mauled is incredible.

2 FEMALE bears. there is a reason the sex of the bears would be mentioned. bears are territorial. the chance of haveing two bears let alone two female bears in close proximity to be able to attack is amazeing in itself. from my understanding females are even more teritorial than males are.

it must be kept in mind that to this point elisha had only performed one miricle to this point. his mentor elijah had only recently recently been "taken" by god. he had little creadibility so far. what better way for god to tell every one in a society without phones, tv, raidio, internet or even a newspaper that this was god's chosen prophet. this had to have been a big town to have more than 42 boys arround. how long do you think it took the news to get around? not long i imagien that almost every one had a conection to at least one of these boys. the evidance of mauling would be evident with broken bones and deep scratches many of these boys would be sporting would remove doubt as to it happening.

remember it said they had been MAULED not that they had been killed. you can survive being mauled and with 42 victoms i would doubt that each would have recieved more than a blow or two. they were also not compleatly inocent of wrong doing either. god is the ultimate judge jury and exicutioner. all we know is what they were saying there is no mention of how they were behaveing. were they acting like a mob perhaps? mabe throwing stones? there is no mention so we do not know.therefore how can you say god is cruel or unjust?

god has neves claimed that he is not vengefull otherwise why would we not all go to heaven regaurdless?



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
Conversion to islam is only legitimate when its under theire own will.

So then there's a lot of illegitimate muslims around then eh? Is the son of a pressured conversion also illegitimate?



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Why do you believe that there are allot of illegitimate muslims? Most of the conversion done wasnt done by force. Look at the balkan of the ottomans conquered it. They werent forced to be muslim.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Yup, according to Islam there is a hell, but it is only "eternal" for the very worst of sins. Most will end up in heaven.
And toasted:
[thread drift again]
Sorry, there is no Islamic ideology dividing the world into anything. I don't know where you got that idea from, but it certainly not from the Quran or trustworthy Hadith.
Other than that, what you believe about the origin of the Quran makes no difference. There are solid facts telling it how it is. There was an article in the 80s or 90s talking about deletions? Strange that neither I, nor any other muslim ever heard about it. Stranger that you cannot provide (and I cannot find) a link. It is very interesting that you say Muhammad had seizures and fits. Unfortunately, the theory came up more than 1000 years after his death. I would hardly call that credible.

I think what tomcat was trying to say is that you cannot consider yourself a true muslim unless you yourself accept Islam. No one can force it upon you.

simtek,
on the signature. Even if it's author was an ODed druggy


[edit on 19-3-2005 by babloyi]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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alec eiffel,

oh , I see , you are a politically correct subscriber. ......my condolences

there are two faces of islam...the truth and the lie

for you to contemplate ;

CAIR's founding chairman, Omar Ahmed, also an IAP alumnus, is said to have declared at a public event in California in July, 1998: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." Ahmed has since disputed the accuracy of the quote--five years after it was reported by a California newspaper.

www.frontpagemag.com...

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babloyi,

solid facts ? really ? by two faced arabs ?
, oh you're killin' me...

here is the article on the omissions of the koran;

www.theatlantic.com...

it just confirms the current speakers / current myths perpetrated as truths , are lies...[ that among other things, the koran has never been changed...]

but without a good source for your info...anyone could see islam was just another religion looking for acceptance. I can't tell you guys any more than I have....cuz you need some self discovery...a lightbulb moment to see thru the veil of b.s.

if you guys sympathize with islam...then you probably believe the cia never sold crack in south central L.A. et-al...
--------------------------------------------------------------
babloyi

I got the idea from a jew who married a christian egyptian...who grew up with the muslims and all the hatred for "the people of the book". most everything available for reading has been sanitized. you want truth ? hahahaha...then you better network and find a reliable source. the truth does manage to show itself...here and there...mostly without much fanfare...or not recognized for what it really is , because of too many reasons to get into....I'm sure you've had more than a cpl of those thru the years...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

has no one noticed a pattern ? NOT TALKING ISLAM NOW...BUT NEWS IN GENERAL

political correctness has taken over
no judgeing
no right or wrong
laws against hate speech
anti religion
etc
etc
etc

all of this crap is soooooooo unamerican....it's a freaking manipulation...a deception...and the lies about islam are part of it...

------------------------------------------------
simtek22

I hope you don't think I was ragging on your case....



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 04:23 AM
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Hey toasted...it seems you have to pay to be able to access that article. I don't really want to buy a subscription to it just for one article, so perhaps you can copy and paste it here?



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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i have been told that acording to muslem teachings that jesus is considered to be another prophet and not the son of god, our savior. is this correct? not knowing much about muslem teachings i can not know if this is what is taught or not.

i will agree on the wanting of payment to gain access to information is anoying. but would not reproduceing something cotained in a pay site be a copyrite violation? i realy hate copyrite rules.

as for the statement about islam not being an equil faith but should be dominant. this is something i have heard over and over again. in fact i have also heard that other religions should not be tolerated at all with a disclaimer about "people of the book" as i mentioned earlyer.

as for the claim about about the ottomans wanting to be musslem i would have to find documentation on that fact. personaly i feel like there is a strong possibility of coersion. one thing i know for certain is that other religions are severly repressed in muslem countrys such as turky was. (things may have been changed since the hunt for terrorists this i have no idea about). and before people reply that this was not the case: i have a close family friend who had to flee to north america from turky, due to the fact that his wife became a christian. when he was in turky he was in the military as a medical professinal. (this would be decent work i believe so why leave if you did not have to, especialy when he had to put up with years of crap to be allowed to practice his proffesion here).



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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There are always exceptions drogo. If you compare how the Ottomans treated christians and how the christian empires/countries treated muslims theres a clear difference.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
There are always exceptions drogo. If you compare how the Ottomans treated christians and how the christian empires/countries treated muslims theres a clear difference.


while i can't make a choice about the ottomans due to no information as i have stated. i will agee that christians treated other religions badly includeing the muslems. the crusades seem to be a good example of this.

the spanish treatment in south america. as well as the takeing (by force in many cases i understand) of native children and putting them in special schools to "christionize" them seems more examples. as is the whole spanish inquzition.

you will note that i do not agree with the way these things were done. even so this does not excuse it. in fact most of these acts seem to have been done by the catholc church. the fact that the catholics and prodistant and other separated christian churches are all "labled" christian despite many differances in belief is because ultimately we all see jesus as being the son of god and savior. in fact as i understand it the musslem faith has these divisions as well. that stated i will say that these thigs were not done according to the teachings of jesus. yes we are told to all go out and convert the unbelever. there is no requirement that everyone MUST convert. in point of fact revelation 20:12
i saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. and the books were opened, including the book of life. and the dead were judged according to the things written in the books, according to what they had done. ( i would urge people to read further)

there is no requirement given that all must be converted, but that each would be juged on their own merit. it is my understanding that the muslem beleifs require that all must be converted.

again i ask though.is jesus according to muslem teaching considered to be just another prophet and not our savior, the son of god?



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by drogo
there is no requirement that everyone MUST convert. in point of fact revelation 20:12
i saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. and the books were opened, including the book of life. and the dead were judged according to the things written in the books, according to what they had done. ( i would urge people to read further)

there is no requirement given that all must be converted, but that each would be juged on their own merit. it is my understanding that the muslem beleifs require that all must be converted.

again i ask though.is jesus according to muslem teaching considered to be just another prophet and not our savior, the son of god?


That is a very interesting passage. There is one much like it in the Quran:

17:13-14
Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open.
(It will be said to him: ) "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee."

Other passages even refer to it as "The Book of Deeds".

And yes, drogo, according to Islam, Jesus was just a prophet, and not the Son of God.


[edit on 19-3-2005 by babloyi]



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi

And yes, drogo, according to Islam, Jesus was just a prophet, and not the Son of God.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by babloyi]


how can you call someone a profit taht has obviously lied about being the son of god?. even going so far as to state he is the only way to get to heaven. would this not make him a heritic? this is exactly why the jewish high preist and leaders had him put to death. he did not deny he said these things even to save his life. indeed he even said them again.

john 14:6,7
jesus told him, "i am the way, the truth, and the life. no one can come to the father except through me. if you had known who i am, then you would have known who my father is. from now on you know him and have seen him!"

john 3:13-16
for only i, the son of man, have come to earth and return to heaven again. and as moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so i, the son of man, must be lifted up on a pole, so that everyone who believes in me will have eternal life.
for god so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

matthew 26:63-64
but jesus remained silent. then the high priest said to him, "i demand in the name of the liveing god that you tell us whether you are the messiah, the son of god."
jesus replied, "yes, it is as you say. and in the future you will see me, the son of man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and comeing back on the clouds of heaven."

jesus is very clear in what he said. how can you say he is a prophet of god when he has publicly stated he IS the savior and the son of god? if he would lie about this would not every thing else he said also be a lie?





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