Mental Illness, UFOlogy and New Science

Hi.

This is another of those posts, where I wish to encourage discussion
on a topic that doesn't, IMHO, get discussed frequently enough.

I'm not going to do a mass data dump on this topic at this point, but
I do wish to get the conversation started.

Let's first start with the topic of mental illness and creativity.

It's often said that genius and mental illness are related.
Indeed, pretty much ALL of modern science would have been
considered mental illness, at one point in history.

I posit that there can be 'somewhat useful mental illness' and
conversely, pure mental illness that just needs psychiatric
treatment.

Where is the line?

Well, first off, i wish to share my own, somewhat biased personal
view. Humans are currently causing the 6th great mass extinction
(the Holocene or so-called Anthropocene extinction).

We are wiping out most life on Earth, except for humans and their
food animals. Now really, bacteria and insects will likely be fine,
and compose much of 'life' on Earth, but let's not be that pedantic.

By ANY rational measure of a neutral outside observer, humans as
a whole are BAT# CRAZY. Flat out insane.

Are some humans somewhat more stable and some less stable?
Yes, it's probably a bell-shaped curve. But a a whole, there's
not much room for the pot to call the kettle black.

Now specifically in UFOlogy. Doctor Kit Green is fond of saying that
people 'into' ufology and such topics seem to be suffering from the
mental disorder paraphrenia. Something like 'high functioning
schizophrenia". A person can still have a family, have a job, and
on the weekend chase around little green men.

Now of course Kit Green seems to have paraphrenia of his own,
you can read about his exploits in terms of the 'core story' and
'roswell corpses', etc. He's the pot calling the kettle black.

So it's apparently a genetic weakness in humans, that to power
our big creative capabilities, that we can't fully exclude the
bat # crazy parts of us..

but bat # crazy led to all of modern science. Alchemy became
chemistry, etc.

So what is useful insanity, and what is non-useful insanity?

If you have 'crazy ideas', but attempt to further develop them
into theories, that might be testable.. then sometimes.. you
find out you were not crazy at all.

But, as I stated in several other posts, if you keep yourself in
a cloud of bull sheiss, in a carefully designed 'alternative
reality', where nothing is expected of you.. you just make
huge assumptions and never even attempt to ascertain
whether you re correct or incorrect.

Is that helpful, except to comfort yourself? Isn't that mainly
what religion is?

If you have 'crazy beliefs' and are busy trying to verify them..
I have no problem with that.. I do that.. I've been doing that
my entire life. Have I accomplished anything? Maybe. Maybe
not.

That's another thing.. it's perfectly acceptable to chase 'crazy'
in the quietness of your own mind.. it's perfectly acceptable
to defend your 'crazy theories' in public.

But if you just keep yourself 'crazy' and try to shout down
other people.. or con them into believing you... (TTSA..
Emotion-based politics.. Religion..)

what have you accomplished of any value?

In my old age and fading health, I certainly entertain some
'far out there' theories.. and I'm still working on gathering
data and even experiment..

Now, do I push the 'Bible of Kevin' on people? perhaps a bit,
but i don't wish to. I keep 99% of what I know and experience
to myself. It's been part of MY journey of dispelling my own
ignorance, and might be of no value to anyone else.

If I had to choose between data dumping my out there'
conclusions, or to help a few people learn how to be
more rational, while not 'giving up a HEALTHY' bit of
'potentially bat # crazy' --

I would choose that.

We quibble about UFOs while the world literally burns.

The only way that I can scratch the itch of my selfish
desire to tie up a few loose ends in this area, is to also
discuss the larger issue, mental health, creativity and
the pursuit of new science, while doing so.

Hopefully others wish to discuss this topic.

TY

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

They should have sent a poet..

a reply to: Cauliflower

Meh*

Interesting thread. It made me think of Dr. John Mack, the psychiatrist. There are 3 or 4 of his books I want to read.

I agree with the 'useful mental illness' idea. A musician friend once told me that "happy, sane people don't create things".

If you keep yourself in a cloud of bull sheiss, in a carefully designed 'alternative reality', where nothing is expected of you.. you just make huge assumptions and never even attempt to ascertain whether you re correct or incorrect.

What's really nuts is that there are people who make a decent living out of sharing this alternate reality with a segment of the public who buys it hook, line and sinker.

a reply to: ColeYounger

Humans have always been prone to feeding off each other;
but now that we've totally subdued the rest of nature,
it's mostly the ultra rich feeding off their economic, political
and religious dupes.

And yes, to a lesser degree the lesser predators in UFOlogy
and other fringe thought. They are SHAMELESS.

I think Aspergers cuts out the fat from the chew. Growing up insulated from the “real world” OCONUS thrown into The mix by “enlisting” that was a real wake up call. Germans coming in/ migrating see the same thing with the west, the normal Language with joking and semi seriousness in conversation being within the norm is alien to them...us. Saying things without doing or following through in conversation was the buggiest hurtle. As in come on over next weekend and we’ll have a great time, in actuality in doing so, was wayyy weird as the Invitation was just in jest by the speaker.

We can also discuss spiritual delusions in this thread if
ya'all want.

For example, one of the core New Age precepts
of 'spiritual evolution' and the preceding concept
of 'enlightenment' are both rife with delusion,
and have caused great harm and confusion.

The very valid concept of Darwinian evolution
with modification through descent (the neo
Darwinian fusion) has been applied to PRESUMPTIONS
which should not be presumed.

Frankly I love poetry, and spandrels and 'souls'. It's
good stuff Maynard.

But stapling known, irrefutable science, onto a
desire for life life continuation -- does not make
it true or valid.

So if you can't futz endlessly about 'your soul', well
what then?

Perhaps futz about something beneficial and doable?

Now.. I'm pot calling kettle black here.. I futzed over
'soul' for decades. But I finally got my answer.. and it
was NOT what I wanted.. but there was a certain
beauty that could not be denied.. and untying a
horrible delusional knot, that was responsible for
poisoning 1/2 of my behavior.. that was wonderful.

(I'm not saying that something 'interesting' doesn't exist..)

but one bad assumption can poison an entire life.

Kev

a reply to: 38181

A lot of early sages and saints can be characterized as on the
Autistic spectrum.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear.....Frankly I love poetry...

I have always fell back to Shakespeare when looking for a reason to explain humanity. In modern days one would say “people are fake” .... I think, true self is only revealed when true self is by itself....behind physical closed doors and closed doors of the mental mind.

Here’s Willie....

Speech: “All the world’s a stage”
BY WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE
(from As You Like It, spoken by Jaques)

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lin’d,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper’d pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well sav’d, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion;
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.


(Sans means without)

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

It's the circle analogy I use.

Where you draw the circle, in close or out far,

defines the extent of who you are .

In close, you can eventually remove memes from culture,

that pollute and confuse.

Then, if you wish, you extend back, out far, to talk about
the tying of knots and the untying of them.

Or you don't; and it's all good.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Personally I believe one of the main issues is that it's much more exhausting to doubt and question than just accepting some sort of faith.
That's why most individuals chose to keep their system stable with patches. I don't think that's for me to judge, they want to survive if some childish saviour or benevolent universe story is what they need to keep going...
The problem with humans is the Dunning-Kruger Effect

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.

link

The incapability to accept there are things we don't know.

Plus of course the anthropocentric delusion and that it's creeping in not only into religion but also science.

a reply to: Peeple

No, the problem with humans is their incapability to stop doing things that harm both them and others.

a reply to: Direne

Maybe, but I believe that's just a symptom of thinking we're the center of the universe. Entitled to exploit and kill because we're so superior.

a reply to: Peeple

I see... what if you are like that by design? I mean, what if humans behave the way they do because it is in their very nature to do so? Would that change anything?

a reply to: Direne

Couldn't you say the same thing about harming others? Does that make it okay?

a reply to: Peeple

I never said it is okay. I was wondering whether it is part of their nature. Much as spiders kill flies to keep on being spiders, do humans kill everyone around because they have no choice? Apparently, it seems to be the case. Unless you are ready to accept they are an evil species...

a reply to: Direne

There are also humans who decide to be vegans, to help others, sacrifice convenience to do the right thing... so there's obviously a choice

a reply to: Peeple

Sol-3 has 7.8 billion people. Even if all of them were vegans, their existence would still be untenable. Even if they all were buddhists, their existence would still be untenable. It is not a matter of 'good' souls versus 'evil' souls. It is about biology and maths. No choice is possible.

Any paradise with 7.8 billion beings is hell. None to blame.

a reply to: Direne

But it's also a choice not to procreate like rats, so it's a self-made hell still driven by stupidity not necessarily "evil" just bat#crazy and dumb as #

a reply to: Peeple

Yes, I see your point. A Malthusian solution... The problem is, Peeple, that if you are going to apply that solution you will need to decide who can and who cannot have children. And how many of them. And when. And that will cause sadness, injustice, and a disrupted society.

However, Nature is wise and already implemented a solution for this situation: pandemcs, diseases, wars, natural disasters, technological disasters, and cosmological extinction level events. It is a creative solution, therefore, as per the OP topic under discussion, it is too the solution of a mentally ill Nature...

My point was that: if we link creativity to mental illness, we must accept Nature is mentally ill. Though we love it. To have a mind is to be ill. No stone is ill. Life forms are.