Why will they lose?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
Trump probably loses. His margin of victory was too small in 2016 in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. These are states that historically have voted D and flipped in 2016.

Now, if Trump flips some states (Minnesota) and keeps one of the above he has a shot. Some of these states are just too close to call honestly.

I’ve never voted for a Republican President in my life (I sat out 2016) and I’m honestly considering it. My vote isn’t going to Joe Biden though. Not that Biden is some awful candidate, but the DNC still has yet to figure out why Donald Trump won in 2016 and fix their issues.

I could spend all day listing Trump’s faults, as I could Joe Bidens’, but at the end of the day I feel like a vote for Trump would be 4 more years of this quasi-antiestablishment candidate where as a vote for Biden legitimizes the DNC’s backward thinking.

When the DNC stops trying to play identity politics that only divide the country and when the DNC stops paying lip service to issues and actually tries to enact reasonable policy then they can have my vote again. They won’t do that, so they likely will never get my vote again.

The above post is why the Democrats lose, my extended family used to be all Democrats no more either they don't vote or they vote Trump.

Does that outweigh the people who gambled on Trump and just aren't happy with the results?

Setting aside the debate of whether or not he's done good, what are people's perception?

Set aside the whole TDS thing too as it's moot the cause of perception, but we're looking at only how people view his presidency... I don't think you're right that Trump wins because democrats flipped for him.

A vast majority of dems will vote just that way, and the same for the inverse.

Like always, this one will likely be decided by independents and swing states. I think thats where the answer on who wins is.

Well, we won't have long to wait to find out. Barring any shenanigans on either side the Democrats had record numbers turn out for Hilliary and still lost. Biden is nowhere near the draw HRC was, anger is good but apathy is dominating when you look at Biden Harris ticket.

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: Gnawledge
No intelligent law-abiding-citizen thinks that defunding the police means abolishing the police.

You may be correct in that. I can tell that you don't watch the news, tho. People have actually said on the news that they WANT to completely get rid of Police.

Most news clips that are national I only see here, I have it on sometimes while doing other things. Other than that it's my local news and that's it.

There are people that have said that White Men should be exterminated. How is that not Racism? It's ok if Black People say it?

No of course not. One is more prevalent than the other however.

The real problem in America right now, the big one, is the pandemic and the complete lack of response to it. That always seems forgotten here.

There is a reason for that. An article I read yesterday said that currently just under 3,000 people were hospitalized in Illinois with Covid-19. There's 8 million people in Chicago. The reason no one is talking about it is because we don't see why less than 1% of the population being hospitalized should be 10% or more of the conversation.

But let's get back to the topic - who do you think will lose and why?

I had said I don't know. That's the truth. Either one could win. I hope and bet on Trump losing because of his lack of response to Covid (mainly).

He can be great for the economy but if a disaster happens or anything goes wrong, he has no idea how to handle it.

I believe Biden is near to brain-dead but he at least is willing to follow the science and take advice.

originally posted by: Gnawledge
Disband does not equal abolish. It's reorganization and reprioritization.

This may be true for you. People have said, on the news, they want to COMPLETELY get rid of Police. I personally know someone who says it's ok for Black people to murder Police if they live in the Ghetto.

I don't think you realize how completely F**ked up the situation is.

originally posted by: Gnawledge

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gnawledge
No intelligent law-abiding-citizen thinks that defunding the police means abolishing the police.

Oh really?

www.oregonlive.com...

Calls to defund and break up police departments across the nation have gained steam in the week since the Minneapolis City Council pledged to disband its police department after the police killing of George Floyd.

Seems a lot of people disagree with you.

Disband does not equal abolish. It's reorganization and reprioritization.

It's hard to think beyond the catch-phrase, I know.

Don't ever discount the value or impact of a comment or catchphrase
I remember when Bill Clinton won on the heels of 'It's the Economy stupid"

Winning Democrats are usually a personality which Biden is not, and they usually are not long term career DC insiders. LBJ might be the last one and he was an incumbent. Carter, Clinton, and Obama were definitely outsiders. No denying many people have zero faith in either party nowadays.

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: Gnawledge
Disband does not equal abolish. It's reorganization and reprioritization.

This may be true for you. People have said, on the news, they want to COMPLETELY get rid of Police. I personally know someone who says it's ok for Black people to murder Police if they live in the Ghetto.

I don't think you realize how completely F**ked up the situation is.

Sure, stay away from the news would be my suggestion. I'd guess those people are f'ed in the head and get a lot of views for the station.

I live in Shakopee. Just outside Minneapolis. People really are not so crazy as to think doing away with all police is a solution to anything.

It's the news that is f'ed up. Unfortunately it's leaking into people's brains. This is why I want Trump to lose. I see this election as a kind of war on stupid.

I gotta sleep. Thanks for talking like a normal human.

a reply to: putnam6

You may very well be right. I've constantly said they picked the worst candidate to go up against Trump. Never did I know someone personally who was excited about Biden during the primaries.

I wasn't arguing that Trump has no chance, I think it's a coin flip.

I just don't think dems are flipping for him. I think independents will decide it.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
Trump probably loses. His margin of victory was too small in 2016 in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. These are states that historically have voted D and flipped in 2016.

Now, if Trump flips some states (Minnesota) and keeps one of the above he has a shot. Some of these states are just too close to call honestly.

I’ve never voted for a Republican President in my life (I sat out 2016) and I’m honestly considering it. My vote isn’t going to Joe Biden though. Not that Biden is some awful candidate, but the DNC still has yet to figure out why Donald Trump won in 2016 and fix their issues.

I could spend all day listing Trump’s faults, as I could Joe Bidens’, but at the end of the day I feel like a vote for Trump would be 4 more years of this quasi-antiestablishment candidate where as a vote for Biden legitimizes the DNC’s backward thinking.

When the DNC stops trying to play identity politics that only divide the country and when the DNC stops paying lip service to issues and actually tries to enact reasonable policy then they can have my vote again. They won’t do that, so they likely will never get my vote again.

The above post is why the Democrats lose, my extended family used to be all Democrats no more either they don't vote or they vote Trump.

Does that outweigh the people who gambled on Trump and just aren't happy with the results?

Setting aside the debate of whether or not he's done good, what are people's perception?

Set aside the whole TDS thing too as it's moot the cause of perception, but we're looking at only how people view his presidency... I don't think you're right that Trump wins because democrats flipped for him.

A vast majority of dems will vote just that way, and the same for the inverse.

Like always, this one will likely be decided by independents and swing states. I think thats where the answer on who wins is.

Well, we won't have long to wait to find out. Barring any shenanigans on either side the Democrats had record numbers turn out for Hilliary and still lost. Biden is nowhere near the draw HRC was, anger is good but apathy is dominating when you look at Biden Harris ticket.

Biden voters are so apathetic, they're not bothering to follow instructions on their ballots in North Carolina. 17% of received ballots from Democrat zip codes are being rejected for "errors".

I believe Biden will win, I think the corrupt dems will pull no stops to rig the election in their favour. It didn't happen in 2016 because they never saw Trump as a real threat, however, that's different now.

My question is, after seeing the overwhelming support at Trump rallies, knowing very well he's numero uno, are you going to accept this?..... and don't even bother with sleepy Joe, it will soon be president Kamala Harris...... OMFG!


Aussies Luv Trump

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: putnam6

You may very well be right. I've constantly said they picked the worst candidate to go up against Trump. Never did I know someone personally who was excited about Biden during the primaries.

I wasn't arguing that Trump has no chance, I think it's a coin flip.

I just don't think dems are flipping for him. I think independents will decide it.

I certainly don't know I'm not 100 % positive myself, in a lot of ways we are in uncharted territory. I don't believe the polls after last time. With all that's been thrown on Trump, it should be a Democrats in a runaway but that's unlikely and it speaks to the weakness that is Joe Biden, as well as the strength of the appeal of Trump. Minus the COVID situation DJT wins in a landslide

originally posted by: Gnawledge

originally posted by: CryHavoc
The phrase 'Defund the Police' might have even lost them the Election. No intelligent law-abiding citizen is going to vote for that.

No intelligent law-abiding-citizen thinks that defunding the police means abolishing the police. Police shouldn't be the first responders in many situations, especially mental health ones. But they are, aren't trained for it and have guns and the ability to take away your freedom. "Defund the police" is just doing policing better and more efficiently. 911 isn't going anywhere.

you don't understand any of this.

what the people who started the cries for "Defund the Police" have said, very loudly, and very clearly is "we don't want no mo police" Now do your magic and explain to me what that statement means. And be very careful, if you doubt that, and I bring the article to back it up, you loose even more credibility.

a reply to: Gnawledge
OR you’re being lied to, per usual, and are too thick to even see it.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Gnawledge

originally posted by: CryHavoc
The phrase 'Defund the Police' might have even lost them the Election. No intelligent law-abiding citizen is going to vote for that.

No intelligent law-abiding-citizen thinks that defunding the police means abolishing the police. Police shouldn't be the first responders in many situations, especially mental health ones. But they are, aren't trained for it and have guns and the ability to take away your freedom. "Defund the police" is just doing policing better and more efficiently. 911 isn't going anywhere.

you don't understand any of this.

what the people who started the cries for "Defund the Police" have said, very loudly, and very clearly is "we don't want no mo police" Now do your magic and explain to me what that statement means. And be very careful, if you doubt that, and I bring the article to back it up, you loose even more credibility.

"We don't want no mo police" is explained away easily as an idiot speaking who has obviously had problems with the police - for being an idiot.

I don't need an article to show me an example of a random idiot. Show me someone with actual power to do something to abolish the police and is actively working to do so.

a reply to: carewemust

This woman represents the Democrats heart, mind, soul and morals.

this should be the national convention theme song for dems

I have already gave a pretty extensive breakdown of my prediction as to who I think will win based on multiple factors in This Thread but to keep it simple, I firmly believe that Joe Biden will win the presidency.

Now if I am understanding rightly I think the OP is asking why people will vote for Joe Biden to win rather than my own reasons for believing he will win.

I believe people are going to vote for Joe Biden for a few reasons, but the main one is just how unpopular Trump has been, his popularity has never been about 50% in any kind of polling that matters. Biden's favourability ranges from -9 to +8, that is way better than Clintons ever was. Trumps ranges from -16 to -11 which is pretty darn awful, he is not a popular president. Now I know that anecdotally some of you might struggle with that but the 100-250 people in your social circle do not represent the hundreds of millions who will vote.

So the question really is why is Trump unpopular and why is Biden so popular, now I think thats a interesting debate to get into but its not one that can really be hand properly on ATS, at least from a bipartisan perspective. What is interesting to note is that when you go through Biden's website he has a whole range of plans that he has laid out. Now I don't want to get into the merit of each of these but rather just point out that when you look at Trumps he doesn't actually have a plan laid out but rather a list of kept promises the problem though is that he seems unclear on what his promises are for a second term. To be fair it might just be that I can't find them on his site but all the same, that should be something thats pretty easy to find.

Trump is the most consistently unpopular president in modern history, he is up against a candidate who is seen as more popular among the electorate and he is facing reelection after a first term that has been besieged with scandals, impeachment, investigations, social unrest and a global pandemic that many believe he has failed to manage.

So that is why I believe he will lose and Biden will win.

Now I know you're going to start saying "ohhh but what about hunter....dementia..." and whatever else but the truth of the matter is that those things really only matter to Trumps base of support and its really only his most die hard of supporters who care. Next you're going to tell me that its all corrupt and its the "fake news" not reporting it but I really do think that at one point you have to step back and ask yourself if it might just be that your being duped by your own propaganda. After that am sure your going to tell me about corruption and voter fraud, well many of the states that matter have a republican governor so I would say that if you really do believe that voter fraud is a problem then its a problem because your politicians haven't dealt with it. Voters suppression I think is more of a problem than voter fraud.

To be very clear I am not a fan of Biden, I think it is probably better than Trump but only because I honestly don't see how it could be much worse but I really do think that once again the American people are being given a crap deal.

a reply to: putnam6

ncharted territory. I don't believe the polls after last time.

Yea, I don't blame anyone for not believing polls at all.

I've been getting mega spammed by political orgs, and I'm not registered with a party or affiliated with candidates. Needless to say, it's annoying and I don't do polls... Which makes me think, who does do polls? Probably very few people.

Also, my guess is many aren't being honest about voting for Trump to pollsters. Whether they just don't want to hear the remarks, or if they're undecided or change their mind day of election.

The polls don't mean a thing.... I don't think they ever will again either considering the low popularity candidates.

Whoever wins, they won't last until 2024.

originally posted by: Oldhabits
Whoever wins, they won't last until 2024.

Why?

Biden will lose because more people love Trump than like Biden & Kammy.

Despite the media making it into a Presidential race the whole thing is really a cake walk for Trump.

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: Gnawledge
Disband does not equal abolish. It's reorganization and reprioritization.

This may be true for you. People have said, on the news, they want to COMPLETELY get rid of Police. I personally know someone who says it's ok for Black people to murder Police if they live in the Ghetto.

I don't think you realize how completely F**ked up the situation is.

dis·band
/disˈband/

(of an organized group) break up or cause to break up and stop functioning.


Am I living in the twilight zone?

We want good cops not bad cops. The only people who don't want any police are the people breaking the law.