A Prime Example of Convergence: a missile strike by a Turkish UCAV in Libya

A Turkish Bayraktar TB2 UAV[1] owned by the Libyan (or Tripoli) government conducted an airstrike[2] on a cargo plane carrying munitions for one of the opposition forces. Turkey has a large force[3] involved in Libya, having begun landing ground troops on January 5, 2020. However, neither the fact the Turks are in Libya nor the war itself are what is so interesting.

In February 2001, a little under 20 years ago now, fired its first missiles off of a Predator drone at a bombing range near Las Vegas, NV. 13 years after that, the Turkish TB2 had its first flight. Turkey is nowhere near the sophistication of China or other countries for its aerospace technologies. And yet, here, with the TB2, Turkey demonstrates the concept of 'convergence[4].'

Think about it. Even if you assume the TB2 is only the same as the Gnat[5], Turkey is building and selling UAVs capable of air strikes. They have built 118 of them . However, the TB2 is comparable to the Reaper[6], not the GNAT.

13 years behind, you might be tempted to snark. However! It's Turkey! It doesn't have the wealth or knowledge base of the US. And yet, it is converging on American capabilities. The Reaper is, after all, the frontline UCAV for the US and will be for a while yet.

Now then. That's Turkey. What's China up to?


1. en.wikipedia.org...
2. en.defenceturk.net...
3. en.wikipedia.org...
4. en.wikipedia.org...(economics) . This is economics version.
5. en.wikipedia.org...
6. en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: anzha
It's a good thing they are using drones too. The LNA shooting down these drones was becoming so routine, I was just thinking Erdogan enjoyed watching them disappear from screen.

An f1 mirage was allegedly shot down again this time by a pantsir system. No word if this one also had an American Merc pilot or someone else.
I read this strike in the op gave the UAE and Egypt a black eye. Egyptian military was preparing a response when I read about it this morning. Maybe they brought in the f-16's for a reprisal strike. The GNA just took a chunk of coastal territory back yesterday as well.

Thank you for your contribution. The third world war is an interesting spectacle to behold if I may say so.

Turkey is a top twenty world economy, and they spend enough to get into the top fifteen spenders. They have spent A LOT of money in the last decade, partnering and transferring technology to boost their indigenous industries. Like Israel, SKorea, Taiwan, etc, they are dedicated to keeping a relevant technology- and industry -base. They also quietly export a respectable amount, and have an ambitious crash program to expand their industries and exports.

Like most countries, they can do most anything -- if they spend enough time and money.

Funnily enough, Turkey has recently (last few years) become home to one of the top metal detector manufacturers and this company, Nokia/Makro has been releasing some great products to rave reviews that have left many of their older, "name brand" competitors scrambling to keep up.
Turns out there may be more to Turkeys manufacturing capabilities than many, including myself, realised, in more ways than one!

a reply to: anzha


Horsesh**.

Turkeys defence industry is built almost entirely on buying plans asnd technology from other countries and their companies. In some cases they even employ foreign engineers and what not to do the work. Then they slapa made in turkey sticker on in and parade online as if they're a cutting edge, high tech advanced manufacturing nation.
It's a third world country with wages to match.
Their ballistic missiles for example, are Chinese.
Their howitzer South Korean.
Their tank, South Korean. A stalled project because they dont know how to make an engine, and nobody is selling them engines.
Their attack helicopter and a utility chopper,Italian.
Their corvette, American/European.
Even their rifles are knock offs of American and European rifles.
Their drones btw, big Israeli influence.
Other missile tech has come from Ukraine.

They haven't developed anything. To call this a turkish drone strike in the sense that a turkish developed drone did it is wrong.

They can't make an engine for a tank but you think they developed a sophisticated armed drone on their own? Lmfao

a reply to: RadioRobert

Their industry is due exclusively to mainly European companies setting up factories there to take advantage of the cheap labour and lax work place safety laws and regulations.

Dont just look at the stats on the surface, dig deeper.

You'd be shocked at how low the average monthly wage is in Turkey.
Very few have completed high school let alone received a tertiary education. Its in the G20 only because of the size of its economy and that is only because Europeans want to use the cheap labour force.

Don't rely on Turkish media because it's all controlled by the dictatorship posing as a government. Dissenters are imprisoned quickly.
Turkey is the leading nation for jailed journalists and a lack of press freedom.

a reply to: mortex

I know Turkish engineers partnering with Western defense companies. Should I assume they do not exist? And yes, there is not an emphasis on college education in Turkish society.
Please provide sources for your claim that Western cooperation is "only" because Europeans are taking advantage of labour costs. Which Turkish systems are being exported to Western Democracies exploiting cheap labour? Name one.

And yes, Erdogan is a two-bit dictator. Every single Turk I've met has shared that opinion. Presumably it is a growing sentiment among secular Turks at home, as well. His party is already losing vote shares in Turkey.


None of that has anything to do with my post. Turkey has built a very strong indigenous defense industry, and has invested more proportionally in developing it than have most other nations, including European ones.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Whats the matter with you? Lol
Why would you move production, a factory, to a third world country on your door step, where there are low wages?

In what reality do you live?
There's many countries used for cheap labour, Turkey is just one and the one on Europes door step.

Wtf are you on about? Turkish systems exploited by Europeans? Lmfao your post doesn't even make sense.

Here's an example, the automotive industry. There's a few poorer EU countries with big car brand factories, but there's more in Turkey, even Ford is there.

Turkey's defence industry is built entirely on buying foreign systems and putting a turkish flag on it.
The fact they cant even build an engine for their tank says a lot, and makes your posts laughable.

But keep heaping unwarranted praise on them, its funny how ignorant of reality you are while trying to portray Turkey as something it is not.
Especially when you realize how low wages really are, or that it has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world, among many other sobering facts that make anyone with two brain cells to rub together realize Turkey is third world.

So Turkey is a third-world country because Ford bought it's way into a plant there that was/is producing it's vehicles under licensing? Turkey is in large measure still a third-world country, but it has nothing to do with your rant. Nor does it's defense industry become incompetent because they license technology rights and tech transfer from Western companies.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
So Turkey is a third-world country because Ford bought it's way into a plant there that was/is producing it's vehicles under licensing? Turkey is in large measure still a third-world country, but it has nothing to do with your rant. Nor does it's defense industry become incompetent because they license technology rights and tech transfer from Western companies.

The entire basis of your thread is to show Turkey as some super duper weapons producer and developer.
It is not.
License producing weapons, or buying the plans and tech others have developed and slapping your flag on it doesn't count. You're trying to portray them in the same league as the US or other leading Western countries.

An example of how dumb the premise of this thread is..
It would be like starting a thread to brag about Australia building thr Hobart class destroyers, built in Australia, but its a modified Spanish design using American technology and systems.

The rest of what I posted is to give context about the realities in Turkey. You might not like those truths but they are relevant because they paint the overall picture which disproves the garbage analysis youve posted.

The lack of education in Turkey, that is very relevant.


Here's some more context.
For everything they have bought off the shelf, or should I say off tge blueprints, they still arent a major weapons exporter. Who do they sell to? Other sh## hole muslim countries who bought what they did because of the "muslim" factor mainly.

Turkeys defence industry has been built on, besides buying foreign designs and calling them turkish, on their government buying weapons. Erdogan had even created his own militia to protect him.

Where does the money come from? From the state coffers.

They're verging closer to an economic catastrophe because of their spending on a fake defence industry to try portray them selves as developed. Seems it worked on you at least lol.

Their currency is tanking, and they need to find close to 200 billion USD to pay debts this year..and the ECB and Fed aren't interested in helping them out with currency swaps lmfao.

But like I also said, what indigenous developments? Its all fake. They can't even produce a combustion engine for their South Korean tank design. And nobody is selling them any engines.

Maybe Turkey can ask their new allies, the remnants of ISIS, Al Nusra, Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups in the Middle East that they've decided to start sponsoring and supporting with weapons?

I'd feel sorry for them, but they're the most arrogant a##holes on the planet, who think they're some grand master chess players trying to play all sides off each other, while sponsoring terror groups and trying to blackmail Europe.

a reply to: mortex

The entire basis of your thread is to show Turkey as some super duper weapons producer and developer.

First, it's not my thread. Second, they are one of the top arms exporters whether you or I like it or not. Third, they have paid for the ability to integrate foreign technology and it now composes part of their industrial base whether you like it or not. Fourth, I get it. You hate Turks lol

a reply to: RadioRobert

Your thread or not is irrelevant, you're an active participant spreading misinformation.
Dont be upset that you got called out along with the other turkeys in here who are ignorant of how Turkey created its defence industry.

You had no idea its all foreign designs and tech until I told you and it's obvious.

a reply to: mortex

Why would I be upset that you have it in for the Turks? I know that technology transfer and offsets are standard in the industry, and you might be surprised how much I know about it *shrug*

LMFAO. That's the TB-2 drone from Turkey. Their flagship drone that they tout as a game changer for them selves.

Like I've been saying, Turkeys defence industry is nothing more then assembling components from foreign suppliers.
It's so called wunderdrones are an assortment of foreign components, even the engines are foreign.
What's actually made in Turkey, the bolts and the plastics they hold together? LOL

Without WESTERN DEFENCE COMPANIES AND THE GOOD WILL OF WESTERN GOVERNMENTS, Turkey does not have a defence industry.

So, perhaps the OP should readjust his compass and stop frothing at the mouth.

a reply to: mortex

Wow, a bit anti-Turk are you not?

The OP was showing that no matter how it came about Turkey is building and selling drones capable of launching missiles, basically if Turkey can do that, then imagine what the West and East can do.

However, in your rush to crayon over this thread with your anti-Turkish rhetoric you missed the point and derailed the thread.

The UK doesnt field and sell its own Drones at this size and capability and technologically is more superior to Turkey having a sovereign aircraft build and design capability.

UK MOD uses the American predators for this, whilst they flirted with the Taranis I have no idea where this went but would be unlikely to be an export.

I think what you are looking at here and across the war ongoing in Uzbekistan with the Israel Drones is probably a bit generous to compare them to the predator, I dont think these are MALE (Medium Altitude Long Endurance) and are possibly easily hacked, spoofed and destroyable by the Wests EW knowledge, I certainly hope so seeing how they have performed in the Stans.

So whilst it may look comparable to the reaper because it launched a missile and hit a vehicle, the similarity probably ends there. Comemrcial GPS units, Video Links on 4G commercial networks, short range, one way low cost vehicles which you launch a lot and get very few, if any back.

These are not dropping 2x500lb laser guided bombs from a height you cant see them after flying over a couple of hundred miles or more piloted by a couple of guys sat in the sates in an Aircon room!

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: mortex

Wow, a bit anti-Turk are you not?

The OP was showing that no matter how it came about Turkey is building and selling drones capable of launching missiles, basically if Turkey can do that, then imagine what the West and East can do.

However, in your rush to crayon over this thread with your anti-Turkish rhetoric you missed the point and derailed the thread.

My post is about the topic, Turkeys drones. Your post is about having a go at me. So whose really derailing the thread?

a reply to: mortex

No your post(s) were entirely on bagging Turkey and their third world status, the OP is about an Example of convergence using Turkey as an example, the thread is not about Turkey.

Lift it out of the gutter of nationalism and you get a decent conversation.

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: mortex
No your post(s) were entirely on bagging Turkey and their third world status, the OP is about an Example of convergence using Turkey as an example, the thread is not about Turkey.

Lift it out of the gutter of nationalism and you get a decent conversation.

Whats it got to do with you anyway? You here to back him up?

Wow, we needed you to tell us all that re the thread. Where would we be without you. LOL.

I pointed out Turkeys "technological" advancement isnt their advancement, its the bolting together of components from other countries.

The OP had a problem with that being pointed out.

You got a problem too it seems? I got no problem putting you in your place too.

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