Why don't YOU believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Mega, the bible is consistent? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Good one man!

You poor thing, I will pray for your soul!

Anyways, I've never felt love, but why should one? It is an emotion that can be broken easily, wasted on people who don't deserve it, and isn't useful in any way. Well, unless you are going to make money selling love songs, movies, shows, poems, all that bs. Love is used to get sales and get others into bed by saying I love you to loosen them up.

OK, I perfectly agree with you there.

And what sun dance? Never heard of it. Was it proven by reasonable smart people, not people who have been blinded by faith?
...
Any proof satan exists?

70,000 witnesses, many of them non-christian, atheist etc.
It is very known event.

As for satan, well, I think you should observe performing of an exorcism. That will make you believe.
Also, read this:
John 20
Jesus Appears to Thomas

Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
Why do people always talk about miracles? It's embarrassing.

Christianity has the most miracles so Christianity is the right religion? Miracles can be misleading. You just can't believe in something because there's always miracles to back it up. Jesus was sent for his message, not for miracles. He even said it people will only believe with miracles.

Jesus was not sent for his message but for things said in bible.
It is illogical to believe that he is a prophet when Jesus claims otherwise. He was son of God, and he was seen after he resurrected by many witnesses.
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Tell me, how can Mohammad say that Jesus is a prophet when Jesus is clearly what bible says?

You want to talk about miracles? Talk about how the people wanted Muhammad to do a miracle and he did. He pointed at a full moon and made it disappear.

Then again, Muhammad wasnt sent for miracles. His real miracle was his message which he said beautifully.

So did Jesus, Mohammad was in no way 'announced' by prophets, Jesus was. And Jesus is not a prophet but a son of God, to whom is given all power on heaven and earth.

Read this:

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

Jammerman,
Im happy with my religion, more than happy.
Im Sikh, and dont realy believe that I'll go to hell if i dont believe in Christ.
The basis of my Religion was Hinduism, Which dates back prehistoric. Much older than Christ.
Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Jammerman,
Im happy with my religion, more than happy.
Im Sikh, and dont realy believe that I'll go to hell if i dont believe in Christ.
The basis of my Religion was Hinduism, Which dates back prehistoric. Much older than Christ.
Deep

ZeroDeep:

I don't believe you will go to hell either. In fact, I believe your spirtuality and devotion will lead you to God at some point. (Read my bio)

However, I would not discount the power of Christ's Love. It is honest and true and will change you if you allow it to.

God's peace to you.

To the rest:

My point in posing the question is NOT to SAVE you.
My point is to witness to you for your sake so that YOU can make an informed decision. But don't take my opinion as your own (I'm sure most of you will not in fact). Simply seek God. He will find you when the time is right. Seek and ye shall find.
Stop slamming the door without looking to see what's inside.

As for the bible. Do your research. Please... before you make assumptions that it is inaccurate. It is statistically the most accurate ancient text known.

Religion is man made? Of course it is! But man is God made. Religion provides a purpose, yes. But it is not God. Don't confuse the church with God. The church is made of people. People searching for something greater than the self. God is greater than all of this.

I have to go for now. Thanks for all the posts and the great discussion. Positive and negative.

In peace,

~Jammer

I too have lost my faith in Christianity. And in doing so I think it did me some good. I am more open minded, more reasonable, and not just living on blind faith.

Some things I question about the bible.

The world - when they spoke of the world they were speaking of just one part of the world. but what about Africa, North America, or any other continents seperated by the ocean? We know that Native Americans didnt have the same God as Christians, they had Gods of Fire, Gods of Rain, magic, etc.. They had no chance in learning christianity because God put them on the other side of the world.

The Old Testament - This is the main reason I dont believe. Everything sounds too fictional. And why did Jesus change so many things that were said in the Old Testament? God is perfect remember? Everything that was said the first time should of been right but it had to be changed.

Christianity along with Islam newest religions - These are the newest religions that exist. Think about that. What if you lived and died before the Bible was written.

Things that I do know, Jesus was a good man who taught good morals and there is proof that he existed but none that he was the Son of God. He was a powerful influence on people and a strong leader. If you were told that you were the Son of God at a young age back then then maybe you would believe it also, and in believing that he felt it was his duty to teach the world what he thought was right.

Thatoneguy - Good answer

Hopefully you have faith in Humanity if not Christianity.

Good answer THATONEGUY,
My religion is actualy quite new, around 303 years old, and i think thier are some others aswell.
The ones you noted are just the major religions in the world.
Deep

listen jammer, i love and belive in God but
this is a touchy subject...and not to be bossy
or anything but as shining wizzard said at
the begining of this topic i think you should
close this topic. i can already see people getting
mad
thanks
TSK

Originally posted by Megaquad

Jesus was not sent for his message but for things said in bible.
It is illogical to believe that he is a prophet when Jesus claims otherwise. He was son of God, and he was seen after he resurrected by many witnesses.
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Tell me, how can Mohammad say that Jesus is a prophet when Jesus is clearly what bible says?

Every single miracle Jesus performed was nothing new. All the prophets had peformed the very same things. Some prophets have more honor than others. This is the case with Jesus. He's perhaps one of the greatest prophets of God, as Muhammad said. Jesus never claims to be the son of God.

A Prophet with Honor
Matthew 13:57

Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown is a prophet without honor."

He says it right there. He calls himself a prophet because that was exactly what he was. Son of God? Sounds like a real good comic book.

Originally posted by Megaquad

Read this:

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

I have, a long time ago when some other anti-Muslim tried to disprove Islam and failed trying. All those false prophets died without honor. They died without a name. They died and their message died with them. Muhammad died but his name did not. Muhammad died but his honor didnt. Muhammad died but his MESSAGE didnt.

That's evidence enough that Muhammad was indeed the Last Prophet of God. Name me another man who might've been the Last Prophet?? No one because Muhammad was the last of the Prophets.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
I have, a long time ago when some other anti-Muslim tried to disprove Islam and failed trying. All those false prophets died without honor. They died without a name. They died and their message died with them. Muhammad died but his name did not. Muhammad died but his honor didnt. Muhammad died but his MESSAGE didnt.

Hey take it easy

That's evidence enough that Muhammad was indeed the Last Prophet of God. Name me another man who might've been the Last Prophet?? No one because Muhammad was the last of the Prophets.

Prophets prophets prophets!!
In bible its mentioned that Jesus is prophet simply because he brought new era of Christianity.
Trust me, I was willing to examine Islam and I believe that we believe in the same God, father for Christians but I found obvious flaws.

Jesus himself says he is son of God:

Matthew 26:6
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

Also, read this, its interesting.
From text: I was like you, my Muslim sister or brother, right in the same boat until I knew that you can be absolutely sure of going to Heaven. Tears well up in my eyes just to recall how lost I was and now that I am found. While trembling in tears, seeing the majesty of God, I rejoice to know that I have eternal life for certain.


[Edited on 11-7-2003 by Megaquad]

So you posted a testimonial of a Muslim convert to Christianity. Wow, big deal. There are obvious many Christian converts to Islam also. Your talking to one.

Let's read some of them though shall we.

For those contemplating the acceptance of Islam and the surrendering of oneself to Allah�glorified and exalted is He, there may well be sacrifices along the way. Many of these sacrifices are easily predicted, while others may be rather surprising and unexpected. There is no denying the existence of these sacrifices, and I don�t intend to sugar coat that pill for you. Nonetheless, don�t be overly troubled by these sacrifices. In the final analysis, these sacrifices are less important than you presently think. Allah willing, you will find these sacrifices a very cheap coin to pay for the �goods� you are purchasing.

-Dr. Jerald F. Dirks - Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam (ISBN 1-59008-002-5 - Amana Publications, 2001). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses

www.thetruereligion.org...

More?

Abu Kadr, formally a Christian and Death Row Inmate, now a Iman for a mosque. Lives in California

Ahmed Corpus, formally a born again Christian and a missionary.

Ali Omair, formally a Catholic- "I have found the Straight Path and Insha�Allah I will never leave it"

www.thetruereligion.org...

Jesus never said he was God or the Son of God. Peter said it, he's correct though. Jesus was the Messiah and he is a son of God, not the Son of God.





[Edited on 7-11-2003 by Illmatic67]

"And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matthew 3:17

"Then a voice came from heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mark 1:11

"And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased." Luke 3:22

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father....." John 1:14

Your right Illmatic....Jesus never really said....God/Allah/etc. did!

regards
seekerof

Btw, there is a big difference between 'son' and 'Son'.

regards
seekerof

Whatever, you just keep saying nonsense that has nothing to do with logic or common sense.

Words of Jesus are against Islam and all its principles.
How can Islam approve that Jesus as a valid "prophet" when it violates promises and instructions of Jesus? It's impossible.

First, Jesus tells all christians to go around the world and preach gospel to all nations and establish church, promises them they will be followed by spirit of truth, and now Christians should believe some Mohammad they have been deceived?
What makes Mohammad higher authority than Jesus? Nonsense!

I am over with this because there is nothing in Islam that can prove Christianity wrong.

You know am hearing that this thread going to cause folks at this forum to get out of hand. You all going to get all pissed of and everything and start mentioning each other momies as related to a brothel somewhere in Nevada.

I feel differently, I think what we have here is a bunch of adults ready to discuss real issues without getting personal.

Any thoughts?

Okay, here's my 2 cents (or pence, cos I'm in the Uk....)

until less than a year ago, I was a complete atheist. EVERY religion was just stupid fiction and I lived by my own rules. I hated christians and always denounced people for believing in God. I thought they were stupid.

But in almost no time at all, I started thinking about God more and more...........and I can't explain why or how, but after a while I realised that he was there. I felt his love. Okay, I know I'm starting to sound like the village preacher trying to convert, but I don't mean to, I'm just giving my account.....
Anyway, after all of this I started praying. I was having a rough time, and was always depressed over something. But more and more often, even now, my prayers seem to be answered. Lately I've been amazed at the seemingly endless givingness from God in that he has answered even the smallest of prayers from time to time.

Well, when I didn't believe in God for a long time, so I know how it feels, and at that time I wouldn't have believed a word of what I just wrote, so I can understand that a lot of you wil just dismiss it. Well, I can't convert, so.........all I can say is that I believe if someone wants to believe in God and try to reach out to him at all, he'll find you..........all sounds cliched and tripe, but it's the only way I can put it.

Originally posted by Toltec
You know am hearing that this thread going to cause folks at this forum to get out of hand. You all going to get all pissed of and everything and start mentioning each other momies as related to a brothel somewhere in Nevada.

I feel differently, I think what we have here is a bunch of adults ready to discuss real issues without getting personal.

Any thoughts?

I would tend to agree Toltec. Problem is, when the 'real' issues get brought to the surface, they are ignored and the thread dies.......

regards
seekerof

My point is this is a discussion forum say what your gut tells you is right. Just do it in a way that if another reads it they think....

"Hey this person has a point which is clear, evident and respective of real and sincere feelings. Not only is it obvious they believe in what they say but they took the time to offer there thoughts in a way anyone could understand."

Originally posted by Toltec
My point is this is a discussion forum say what your gut tells you is right. Just do it in a way that if another reads it they think....

"Hey this person has a point which is clear, evident and respective of real and sincere feelings. Not only is it obvious they believe in what they say but they took the time to offer there thoughts in a way anyone could understand."

Precisely Toltec. This is my approach. I do not judge or condemn people because they disagree. My main point of bringing this up is exactly for what you quoted and to stir ones mind to think about God. Please be open and honest people but personal attacks aren't good for everyone. I personally don't mind if people want to attack me personally because I know that they know very little about me outside of a few posts and my bio and I'm a very forgiving person... this is what Christ is all about.
I have no intentions of Halting this thread. If you get really angry and can't deal with this, change the channel. The fact that people get so upset is a good thing. Why? Because it shows how important this really is. It is tied to our deepest values and hopefully those of you who feel like Chebob did and how I have in the past (athiest) will open your heart to letting God find you.

Originally posted by chebob
Okay, here's my 2 cents (or pence, cos I'm in the Uk....)

until less than a year ago, I was a complete atheist. EVERY religion was just stupid fiction and I lived by my own rules. I hated christians and always denounced people for believing in God. I thought they were stupid.

But in almost no time at all, I started thinking about God more and more...........and I can't explain why or how, but after a while I realised that he was there. I felt his love. Okay, I know I'm starting to sound like the village preacher trying to convert, but I don't mean to, I'm just giving my account.....
Anyway, after all of this I started praying. I was having a rough time, and was always depressed over something. But more and more often, even now, my prayers seem to be answered. Lately I've been amazed at the seemingly endless givingness from God in that he has answered even the smallest of prayers from time to time.

Well, when I didn't believe in God for a long time, so I know how it feels, and at that time I wouldn't have believed a word of what I just wrote, so I can understand that a lot of you wil just dismiss it. Well, I can't convert, so.........all I can say is that I believe if someone wants to believe in God and try to reach out to him at all, he'll find you..........all sounds cliched and tripe, but it's the only way I can put it.

This is thrilling Chebob. May God continue to bless you! I have one question for you... Why do you say, "I can't convert"? What does this mean to you? Could you elaborate on what and why? Thanks.

I would like to briefly share an experience that just happened to me. I was in bed (early morning) and was deeply dreaming about many things. I'm bummed that I can't remember all the details, but I was looking up to this "being" or "higher power" in the sky. Suddenly, I saw this flowing beam of energy come down upon me and enter through the top of my head. At that precise moment I "snapped awake" and felt my head pushed into my body to the point of hearing a loud "pop". Now, this is really cool to me because I have a bad back with chronic neck pain. At the instant of the "pop" my pain disappeared and I feel GREAT!
I remember shortly after feeling as though this was some type of powerful blessing from a higher power be it God, Christ, or my spiritual guide(s). But I can't remember the exact details of the dream. (Time to put a pad and pencil by the bed! )

Anyway, God's blessings to all of you.

In peace,

~Jammer

In response to your comments directed at me, jammerman, take a second to step back and conclude on who the marketable sheep is here; you. As long as you practice the disgusting, evil ritual of shoving your beliefs down other peoples throat (as you christians, muslims, and jews have done for countless years) I have no kind words for you. By being your own god i simply meant taking responsibility over yourself and grabbing the reigns of your destiny. I think Aeneas said it best "Noli me tangere", let nothing touch me, when he meant to escape the curses of the men he had slain in battle. I would use this in reference to your disgusting religious practice which i relate to a communicable disease.