Originally posted by jammerman

I am saddened by all the people I meet who are turned off or closed off to Jesus Christ. Many of them have been damaged by the church, particularily the roman catholic church.

Why does this sadden me? Because I don't think people are given a proper perspective on who Christ is and why he came and they are "missing out",... BIG-time.

If you reject Christ, I want to know why? and How?
Please share.

In peace,

~Jammer

just testing the senses

jagdflieger,

I don't necessarily agree. God works through people in addition to other ways. There are countless examples of God working through people. This is how Christianity became a worldwide religion. I'm certainly not here "saving" anyone. You're correct in that respect that only God can save people. However, "saved" is a bit of a misconception in my view. There is no eternal Hell unless a soul chooses to stay there... (granted it's hard to leave despair, but it can happen) "Saved" in my humble opinion is union with God which can only be done through perfection. (Note - The perfection of God and Satan's existence are not mutually exclusive ideas maynardsthirdeye) If you really believe that I'd love to hear your argument.

Anyway, as I was saying... I am not here to "save" people. I am simple here to tell people. To witness my experience with Christ and bring others hope. A spark of interest and direction in something greater than themselves, greater than this world, greater than this universe, greater than we can conceive.

Experiences of this sort can only be had if there is an open mind.
We all will have to go through the door sometime, it's simply a question of when. I, for one, am ready to go home.

In peace,

~Jammer

What if noone here wants to be saved? I have a feeling you are an avid atendee of your local youth group, yes?

I don't reject Jesus. I accept his divine message wholeheartedly (sp?). I believe he was the Messiah but I don't believe he was the begotten Son of God. He was a son of God as are all followers of God.

God is the Almighty and All Powerful. Why would he need a Son? Whatever He says is done.

Jesus was a prophet of God who performed many miracles and even raised the dead.

Jesus himself even said he was nothing more than a prophet.

Well jammerman, if you want to attempt to present the cause of Christianity to these people, please be my quest. However, be ready for extreme frustration. Some of the people on this board have posted the same misconceptions time after time, even after the misconceptions have been refuted. To correct them is really a waste of time. Let them worship their ostriches, rocks, and trees. You will not convince them otherwise. Look at the misconception presented in some of the previous posts of this thread. In my original post, there was no indication of anger (or none was meant). It was merely my observation of fact. In fact when I made the reference to swine, I never mentioned any names. However, the person who posted the thread which accused me of anger must have thought that the term "swine" must to have applied to one who posted the thread (I never mentioned any names). Go back and really read my first thread. Also they show their ignorance when they mentioned the wrong service (IT IS LUFTWAFFE). Again I do not really give a damn if they believe or not. I will probably never post trying to correct these people of their misbelief except to show how these "skeptics" accept certain misconceptions without reservation (In short we have the unskeptical "skeptic").

When you learn how to be your own god jag, is when you truly become spiritually free. The everyday conformist christian, muslim, and jew have no clue how hypocritical they are. the dead religions, the myths of your ancestors, are seldom remembered, because of the very people who would take away your birthright; to control your own destiny.

Originally posted by jammerman
jagdflieger,
Anyway, as I was saying... I am not here to "save" people. I am simple here to tell people. To witness my experience with Christ and bring others hope. A spark of interest and direction in something greater than themselves, greater than this world, greater than this universe, greater than we can conceive.

Experiences of this sort can only be had if there is an open mind.
We all will have to go through the door sometime, it's simply a question of when. I, for one, am ready to go home.

In peace,

~Jammer

I don't buy this for one minute...

Religious zealots cause cancer, i hear.

Well I really never wanted to be God - when all is said and done, it is really a mostly thankless job, and you get the blame when anything goes wrong.

That God works in mysterious ways does not preclude him from presenting himself to other cultures (a rose by any other name ladies and gentlemen).


In Toltec belief Jesus Christ was known as Quetzalcoatl
(In a literal way).

Jagdflieger the belief in Gia or nature in respect to awareness, does not relate to the idea that an animal or plant is God. But rather that a fundamental relationship exist between nature and all reality (as well as beyond).

God, according to the Holy Bible did create the reality as a result. To treat reality as an aspect of God is no different than suggesting that the works of a renowned artist are not a representation of his or her soul.

We are discussing God and what is an image of him is art in living form (there is no price).


Christianity is not about differences it is about similarities.


Kitty try cutting jagdflieger some slack, I understand your instinct but this is religion and spiritualism.

MiStErBeLLaTrIx:

Did you mean that you don't believe my sincerity? or my message?

Note - You can't buy Grace, it is a gift. You can only accept it or reject it.


goregrinder:

I'm glad you brought up the "be your own God" thing. This is a coming attitude that will prevail towards the end times. Marketing of almost all commerce has this type of spin on it, particularily in the technology world. The first world people with money will soon begin to feel as though they are Gods. Automated everything from your home to your car. This is "ok" in a sense for those who know they are being sold this blasphemous message, but those who are ignorant will swallow hook, line and sinker. This type of thinking is exactly why Lucifer fell from Heaven. He started believing that as the "Angel of Light" he was creating his incredible luminscence and beauty and that it was not a reflection of God's energy given to him. His pride made him fall and pride is what keeps most people from comin into a personal relationship with Christ.

If you really believe you are God or a God, heal yourself. Ressurrect yourself. Tell me of the future. Heal this planet. You can do none of these thing from the God perspective. However, you (we all) may have a smidgeon (I'm being very generous here) of God's power in you as the free will he has given. Through that you can act on God's behalf and you can do these things, but only a little at a time through the choices you make. What you eat. What you use/reuse/throw away/pollute. Is this making sense to you?

jagdflieger:

It's ok with me if no one on this message board converts. That is their choice given to them by God. It is my choice (and I feel responsibility) to share the "Good News" with them. I take no responsibility for their decisions, only mine. This is what Christ told us to do as disciples of him.

In peace,

~Jammer

Well, any proof he is the son of god? Any proof there is a god? No. You have the bible you might say. Well, jews have a book, why isn't that one right? It is older than the bible, so why isn't that book right and yours is? Also, do you know what the original bible said? No. You have an edited book that was edited millions of times by the church mostly when it was in power, and today when something doesn't suit the publisher. So, you have any proof?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Well, any proof he is the son of god? Any proof there is a god? No. You have the bible you might say. Well, jews have a book, why isn't that one right? It is older than the bible, so why isn't that book right and yours is? Also, do you know what the original bible said? No. You have an edited book that was edited millions of times by the church mostly when it was in power, and today when something doesn't suit the publisher. So, you have any proof?

Yes there is proof, christianity is the only religion with evidences sent from God.
Once again I will repeat, 'sun dance' in front of 70,000 witnesses in Fatima as promised by virgin Mary and many supernatural events over there, gifts of Holy Spirit, miraculous healings. And everything is consistent, bible is consistent, same things happening on different parts of planet comfirming the canon.
What more do you want?
If you haven't bother to find any evidences or connect the facts it doesn't mean it's not true or that it doesn't exist.

James the Lesser:

Have you ever felt Love? Have you ever been in Love?
Have you proven that Love exists? Hmmm?
Do you have to prove that it does to experience it? of course not.

If you're going to limit your relationship with God to "proving his existence" then you are not going to get very far.
Open your heart and let him in and just see where He leads you. You WILL be surprised.

Good luck on your journey.

In peace,

~Jammer

Mega, the bible is consistent? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Good one man!

Anyways, I've never felt love, but why should one? It is an emotion that can be broken easily, wasted on people who don't deserve it, and isn't useful in any way. Well, unless you are going to make money selling love songs, movies, shows, poems, all that bs. Love is used to get sales and get others into bed by saying I love you to loosen them up.

But again, no proof of god. Mega, other religons have been in contact with the god/s. In Greek and Roman religon, now dead, the gods use to marry us mortals every now and then. If not marry then just sleep with like Zues(Original ladies man). And what sun dance? Never heard of it. Was it proven by reasonable smart people, not people who have been blinded by faith?

And the virgin Mary, any proof she existed? Any proof satan exists? You can say well, evil people. But what makes one evil? Or evil actions, like murder or theft. But murder and theft aren't evil, just actions. Someone is trying to kill you but you kill them instead, was murder evil then? Or are starving, was working for some big company that went bankrupt when it was uncovered they were laundering money and need to feed your family so you steal a ham from a store. Is theft evil?

Was Hitler evil? Or his actions? Or was he a human who did bad things? Evil is to strong a word, like always or everytime, yet is used all the time, used more than Madonna.(bad joke, I know)

You see, I need proof. I never believed in the Pebble People until I noticed that when I didn't do laundry for a long time, bad things happened. I did a load of laundry with lots of socks, some disappeared, good things happened. More proof than anything from bible.

Anyways, I'll stop now, bye!

He's not he said himself he was the son of man. Besides he was just a prophet, a regular person. With some extra's

WHY do you ask why don't I believe in Jesus Christ as Son of G-d??

Why do YOU belive in Jesus Christ as the Son of G-d?

The way I see it, everyone has that human right to believe in what they want. Have you ever noticed that you do not know about religion at your birth? The fact that religion is taught and not an instinct. Why does religion have to be taught. Why can't it be something that is just there?
Seems to me like it has to be taught because it is a creation of man. It is a creation of man. Organized religion is a creation of man.
How do you know that the people who orignally thought that G-d had "talked" to them and shared his plan and ideas were actually sane? Think about when you walk down the streets of almost any major city in the world, you have some wino, some transient, some person who isnt all there, proclaiming that the end of the world is coming, that the lord spoke to him and told him to tell all to repent.

Even if the bible and the Koran and all the other "religious" books were right at one time, they sure as hades won't be now. Ever notice that when one person tells a story to an other person and so on, that the story gets bigger and badder as it gets told. Do you remember playing that game as a kid where everyone sits in a cirlce and one person starts with a sentence and whispers it to the next person and the nextperson whispers it the next and so on untill it gets back to you. How often did that sentence make it back intact to you. Hardly ever as far as I remember. Now think about a whole book going through 2000 some years through billions of people... personally I am sure that the book you read now, is not the original supposed "words of g-d"

The human animal has very few instincts. The Human race needs to be led by someone or something, it has always been this way.

If you were a leader of the masses, and you needed a way to control your people, would you just say that you were their supreme leader in all your mortal glory, or would you tell then that you were following the word of a being higher than all humanity, the one, the creator, something that they could not truely understand but something that they could fear.

Think about that....

Jammerman...

MiStErBeLLaTrIx:
Did you mean that you don't believe my sincerity? or my message?

Note - You can't buy Grace, it is a gift. You can only accept it or reject it.

I believe in due time you will be trying to get people to be saved because of your sincerity.

Do I believe in your message. No.

When you say you want to share your experience or witness your experience is an attempt to lead them to Jesus and be saved.

It seems to me you are already trying to save people when you want to testify to them.

What you call Grace I call Bovine Scatology.
Just my opinon no offense intended.

Why do people always talk about miracles? It's embarrassing.

Christianity has the most miracles so Christianity is the right religion? Miracles can be misleading. You just can't believe in something because there's always miracles to back it up. Jesus was sent for his message, not for miracles. He even said it people will only believe with miracles.

You want to talk about miracles? Talk about how the people wanted Muhammad to do a miracle and he did. He pointed at a full moon and made it disappear.

Then again, Muhammad wasnt sent for miracles. His real miracle was his message which he said beautifully.

[Edited on 7-11-2003 by Illmatic67]