I am saddened by all the people I meet who are turned off or closed off to Jesus Christ. Many of them have been damaged by the church, particularily the roman catholic church.

Why does this sadden me? Because I don't think people are given a proper perspective on who Christ is and why he came and they are "missing out",... BIG-time.

If you reject Christ, I want to know why? and How?
Please share.

In peace,

~Jammer

Well these discussions usually end up pretty heated but I'll bite

I was brought up Christian. I went to church every Sunday with my parents who were both VERY active in the local church. My mother was in Yale divinity school actually to become a priest. My mother died of Lupus when I was 10. I began to question this whole god thing.
I continued to go to church with my father every Sunday. I was even an "alter boy" 'till the age of 15. There was a theft from the rectory (sp?), a bottle of wine was stolen, and what happens? Pretty much everyone in the congregation decided it was me (it wasn't) and made it known that's what they thought.
No matter how much I protested they insisted it was me, with absolutely no evidence mind you.
That was it. The hypocricy of these so called christians was enough for me to walk away and never look back.

Today, 18 years later I have researched many religions and belief systems and I find that I will not accept ANY organized religion. The jury is still out with me as to whether or not I even believe in this so called "God". I would say at this point, no. I am not one for blind faith. I need some proof. A book written by a bunch of people 2000 years ago and translated and modified so many times over the ages to fit those in power in the church does little to convince me otherwise.
If one were to believe everything in the bible then you would have to admit there were an awful lot of miracles going on back then. Where are they now? I don't need a whole sea parted or anything. How about parting Long Island Sound? That might convince me.

Decides it's better not to discuss this matter, this is going to get ugly, I would suggest an AIM conversation and locking this topic.

Just a suggestion......

hoofbeats of the hoard approaching

Originally posted by Tyriffic
hoofbeats of the hoard approaching

WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET!!! lmao

if god wanted to get his message out wihtout the war and destruction, he would have came down himself instead of letting people die for him. i'm startin to wonder about the holiness of the great one who has all this blood on his hands.

Phoenix:

Jesus, as God incarnate, died for you, for me, for anyone and everyone who accepts the gift of grace.

Are you familiar with Karma? The law of karma is a universal system that is based on the concept of cause and effect. Positive karma encourages progress of the soul, and negative karma hinders the progress of the soul.
Human beings cannot attain perfect positive karma to reunite with God. Since God is perfect, only perfection can achieve perfect unity with God. Christ was perfect. In fact, he is the incarnated God as human. Through his sacrifice, all who believe in him are absolved of their negative karma (sin). He already paid the price for all sin. The question is: Do you WANT to go back to God? or do you have more work to do here?

In peace,

~Jammer

Originally posted by phoenix_cross
if god wanted to get his message out wihtout the war and destruction, he would have came down himself instead of letting people die for him. i'm startin to wonder about the holiness of the great one who has all this blood on his hands.

So your basically saying that for every action that Man has taken resulting in "war and destruction" that ultimately G-d is responsible and needs to look at "all this blood on His hands?"

Perchance, maybe we, Man, need to look at the blood that is, indeed, on our hands and of our own doings maybe?!

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 10-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Well said Seekof.

To everyone. I apologize for my post with the long URL. I did not know that it wouldn't wrap and hence creating the annoying horizontal scroll. Sorry about that

~Jammer

I do not have a problem with others who have faith in their respective religions. I, however, dont believe in organized religion. I may be wrong or I may be right.

My personal belief is there there is something, a force, an energy, or something out there that guides us through our travels. Through out my life I have looked into many different religions always searching. not searching for a deity, but searching for knowledge.

If you look at the various religions that are out there, everyone that I have seen/read/heard about seem to have the same basis. The religions give rules for living.
Most of these "rules for living" are things that someone who wanted power would use to "control" his people. That control could be a good thing that would eliminate problems in an anrachist society. However that power could be a bad thing.

Most humans are never satisfied. think about it. How many times have you gotten something or done something that you felt good about or proud of, only to realize that after awhile that sense of pride and feeling of accomplishment had dissappeared. When those feeling went away what did you go out and do? Did you go out and try and do more, or go out and try to do better.

Same thing would go with someone in a position of power. You get that position of power and for awhile everything is hunky dorey..... but then something happens. All of the sudden you dont feel like you have that power. Free minds are thinking. You start to worry that someone else is going to take that power away from you. So what do you do. You do whatever it takes to increase that power.

Humans are competitive by nature. Only the strong survive. And the strong (mental or physical) will do whatever it takes to maintain that order, that power they have over others.

I do have to apologize for my rambling but sometimes I see something, and I just have to write the words that come to my fingertips. My posts are not meant to offend/tickoff or do any harm to any others. I feel all should have their beliefs. We would not be individuals if we didn't.


[Edited on 10-7-2003 by tomazlan]

I don't see much wrong with what Christ had to say, in general.

I think he was a son of God. Like everybody else. I don't believe he was born out of a virgin woman.

I don't think many Christian Churches have done much good in teaching what Christ said, through history.

Originally posted by jammerman
Phoenix:

Jesus, as God incarnate, died for you, for me, for anyone and everyone who accepts the gift of grace.

Are you familiar with Karma? The law of karma is a universal system that is based on the concept of cause and effect. Positive karma encourages progress of the soul, and negative karma hinders the progress of the soul.
Human beings cannot attain perfect positive karma to reunite with God. Since God is perfect, only perfection can achieve perfect unity with God. Christ was perfect. In fact, he is the incarnated God as human. Through his sacrifice, all who believe in him are absolved of their negative karma (sin). He already paid the price for all sin. The question is: Do you WANT to go back to God? or do you have more work to do here?

In peace,

~Jammer

No, I don't think so. I doubt that God is perfect or devils like Satan wouldn't exist.

Jesus is a fictional character, he might have lived, he might have led a group of people, he might have converted from judaism...we dont know

i sure as hell know one thing...aint no way in hell he's gonna save anyone from anything. nor is he going to get up from his grave and walk the earth.

its all a lie and you give into it

Even though I am a Christian and believe firmly in the salvation that our Lord Jesus Christ can bring, I have the following message for other Christians who post on this forum "GIVE IT UP" . You will never convince any of the non-believers here of the validity of Christ's message. You are attempting to "drop pearls of wisdom" before swine. There is no amount of posting that can convince them of the truth. Only God with His Mercy can lift these people out of their ignorance through direct intervention and revelation in their lives (as He did with me). In fact you may be getting in God's way in His dealings with whom He Elects. God will save whom He chooses. Indeed if you think I am presenting a Calvinist view point, you are 100% right. Only God can intervene in the life of the Elect to reveal Himself and give them belief.

Indeed this "skeptics" will accept anything without question which dismisses and criticises the Christian Faith and the Christian believer. There is a well respected writer (among the "skeptics") whose work contains many misconceptions not only of Christianity but of othrer beliefs (Buddist and Krishna). These misconceptions can be refuted and brought into question by reading any text book on comparative religions. They can also be brought into question by accessing the web sites of the appropiate belief (Yes the buddists have lots of web sites). Yet this person's work is quoted and used by the "skeptics" without question. No amount of refutation of this writer's work will convince the "skeptics" that the works contain misconception upon misconception.

Therefore based upon my personal exprience, I have come to the conclusion that God will reveal Himself to whom He Elects. No amount of presentation of the truth on our part will change the attitude of the non-believer. We are merely wasting our time.

its funny to see how rejecting religion can anger some people. open your mind commander SS.

Kitty, your warning is because of your avatar, not this thread.

_____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

I only stating the facts as I see them and as I exprienced them. Indeed I have found some of the most fantastic misconceptions posted on "skeptic" web sites. These misconceptions are accepted as fact by these skeptics and are posted on other skeptic web sites. Again trying to correct the people who advance these misconceptions is useless because they rather believe the lie rather than the truth. These do not only deal with misconceptions about Christianity but with misconceptions of the beliefs of Buddists which can be simply refuted by asking a Buddist what he believes. These misconceptions should be apparent to anyone who has even the vaguest notion of what these other belief systems propound.

As for being angry, I really don't give a damn if you believe or not. That is your problem. As for the Waffen SS, get you services correct!!! IT IS LUFTWAFFE!!!

I, like fry, was raised Christian. Today, I haven't strayed from the church, but rathe rhave decided to think things out for myself. I feel that if you are spiritual to a degree, an all together good person, and show unconditional love for your family and friends, if there is an afterlife, you'll probably end up there. Just as a cynical sidestep, in philosophy last year we discussed the concept of god really being an evil, devious creature. Everything ultimately ends in pain, doesn't it? Take that however you like it.

My personal opinion is that the Asataru religions of the norse are the most beautiful and compelling stories of the spirit ever told. Plus, Odin simply kicks a$$.

[Edited on 11-7-2003 by goregrinder]

Im just not Christian.
But from what iv read and heard, thier is no proof that Jesus was real other than writings on him.
Deep