Should large companies be allowed to ban nicotine users from hire?

a reply to: Bloodworth

Funny thing, I think people were healthier back then also...

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I think that we don't realize how much of our freedoms we have given away for the sake of comfort, convenience, and a false sense of security.

They can't just come out and do big things like say they don't want overweight employees. The way they do it is by chipping little by little.

It is the same way property taxes have gotten so high in some areas. A dollar doesn't sound like a lot in taxes, but times five thousand little things it is. It sneaks up on you.

This is the same thing.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Bloodworth

Funny thing, I think people were healthier back then also...

Lol. I don't think they were. Probably more fun, but not healthier.

a reply to: dawnstar

a reply to: Atsbhct

People were healthier back then due to physical activity, but also died of diseases and sicknesses that we can treat more effectively now due to technology hence the increases in life expectancy. People also did smoke more as well.

Why should only large companies be able to do this? Shouldn't any legal corporate entity be allowed?

a reply to: hombero
Glad I don't have to work around you. I quit smoking but if a few breaks is killing your company then you have bigger problems. Let your regular employees have a few ten minute breaks. I vape and I'm still caught up in this. Snus/dip as well. Insurance in the country is a scam. Medicare for all.

Wait
People still smoke?

a reply to: sine.nomine

It wasn't worth the effort. The kind of work I do I can find good paying jobs around the world. So, if any employer decides to try and pull one over on me I can quit a have a new job as soon as the same day.

I used to smoke and I've done the same thing. They would threaten to fire anyone caught smoking off of premise during their shift, but that didn't stop anyone. In fact there were even butt cans outside the fence.

That's why I tell people to get into careers similar to mine where you hold the cards, and don't even need unions to speak on your behalf. No one should work somewhere that encroaches on their personal lives if they don't want to.

a reply to: Atsbhct

I grew up before the smoking's bans came around... when there was far more smokers. My friends and schoolmates were all healthier than most of the kids I see. I didnt know of anyone with asthma and we really didnt have that many overly obese.
We also didnt have as much crap in the home and in our food... just in our river. Now, everything is plastic, butter isnt butter, eggs isnt eggs, and you have no idea what you are eating, or wrapping your body in. The dryer sheets that smell so pretty you might throw into the dryer has the same carcinogens as are found in cigarettes.
People might be living longer, but just how healthy are they? And, my kids grew up with the fake crap... so, I wouldn't count on that higher life expectancy holding.

a reply to: Bloodworth

Smokers were everywhere, and they smoked everywhere. No such thing as designated smoking area. Ever area was open to smoking, including you hospital room. Where I worked we always shut down early on Fridays, all of us had drinks and de-stressed from the week. Everyone was treated the same, the front office and the back office people chilled together.

Times were so different back then.I actually loved going to work. I never had to make any of my staff do overtime. They did what needed to be done. I kept track of all the hours they didn't charge for and gave it back to them in comp time or vacation time. My staff was loyal to me and I was loyal to them. We were like family.

originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: missed_gear

Yep. I agree. This is the insurance companies, not so much the employer.

A smokers policy is higher than a non-smokers, and some out and out won't insure smokers beyond the most basic policy.

U-Haul has to take on those costs, so... bye smokers. I think it's ridiculous, but if insurance companies are allowed to ask more and more questions, and deny more and more claims with no larger oversight, it's the future.

Obese people cost much more than smokers to cover. 8 guys on our crew. 3 smokers, 5 non smokers, 1 obese non smoker.

The one obese non smoker has more medical costs than the rest of us combined.

Beware, or we will be saying:

First they came for the smokers, then they came for the eaters.

a reply to: GenerationGap

The one obese non smoker has more medical costs than the rest of us combined.

My mom has been smoking for decades, serious like 60+++ years. She has gone to the dr./ hospital less than a dozen times.

I had a gen ed course where we looked at the the issues of health insurance and corporations. Since many corporations have healthcare plans for their employees, it cones down to whether corporations should have to deal with the health issues of people at r oak, such as smokers.
I thought it was disturbing to think that corporations should be able to dictate our personal lives ... and I think this is true of Big Brother as well.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: GenerationGap

The one obese non smoker has more medical costs than the rest of us combined.

My mom has been smoking for decades, serious like 60+++ years. She has gone to the dr./ hospital less than a dozen times.

My grandmother grew up on a tobacco farm and started smoking when she was 11 she lived to be 80. On the other hand my mom started smoking when she was 16 and got lung cancer at 59. I started smoking when I was a teen. I'm 43 and they found 3 growths in my lungs. Which may or may not be a problem. They found 3 growths in my stepdads lungs 10 years ago and he's still kicking.

Nicotine is a hell of a drug. The brain see it the same way it see's water and food. I quit for 12 days cold turkey and it was hell. All I could do is stare at the wall and think about having a smoke. It felt like I was stuck in the ocean on a life raft dying of dehydration surrounded by water I couldn't drink.

That was a year ago. I haven't tried to quit again because the withdrawals were that bad. I know what I'm in for when I quit. I'm gonna give it a go again soon. It takes some serious will power to overcome the first 3 days.

a reply to: JAGStorm

YES!!!!!!

Why is it smokers are allowed to take 6-7 breaks a day but non smokers can never get away with that? For example, at my place of work everyone in my dept. happen to be non smokers, we have to file work utilization reports for every MINUTE of our workday but see the salaried office people taking multiple smoke breaks all day long, and are NOT required to log that time. That is total BS. If this is going on everywhere, that's billions of dollars in labor costs lost. And yet the suits are only worried about the people who actually WORK all day.

America.......the land of the free?

a reply to: openminded2011

I understand entirely your premise.

As an employer (detached as I am) I am concerned quarterly about neccessary vs. unnecessary costs on my P&L.

I do not agree, whatsoever, raising my costs for an employees lifestyle (drugs excluded, however nicotine addiction is real). On this topic, we must and do by laws enacted have a drug/alcohol policy with remedies. What is occurring, smokers will eventually fall under the policy umbrella and we will become the ones to provide.

Deferring the weight of group coverage spikes the group costs by claims. Anyone here in the insurance industry knows; cost is carried. Personally, spending days reviewing reams year after year, realizing costs will accelerate become anti business. These costs are passed on.

mg

a reply to: JAGStorm

I'm fine with this as long as *everything* is talen into account equally. If it turns out Asians have higher healthcare costs, then no hiring Asians (just an example for illustration purposes, Asians probably have lower healthcare costs than the average American lol)

If people who eat McDonald's have higher healthcare costs, then McD's eaters are out. Drinkers, people over 50 years old, people who drive Nissans, lesbians, Southern Baptists with their delicious fried foods.

Let's just take it ALL into account - otherwise, let's stop being selective with what we use for such considerations. Diabetes is the largest healthcare cost in the system, and plenty of people willingly choose diabetes through their lifestyles (read: poor diet and sloth) who are non-smokers. Its every bit as preventable as the potential health ramifications of smoking.

Every year, I feel more and more embarrassed when I hear "land of the free", "freedom", "equality", etc. in relation to the USA. It should be "Land of the puppets, who really only have what freedom and equality the majority, the politicians and the corporations decide to give them."

"Smokers" are an easy target, because they're a minority. I hope they make it about all kinds of other things so it affects more people. Non-smokers must love the idea of having a "more equal" chance of employment, regardless of how revoltingly unhealthy they maybe in everyother way.

a reply to: dogstar23

Just a thought on the Asian healthcare mention!

In Japan, larger companies routinely weigh their employees, and if employees are deemed overweight, they're offered help. Drinking and smoking is rampant, though, lol. So give some and take some everywhere I guess.

But imagine if employers and insurance companies actually cared about health on a broad spectrum and offered help to people. Lots of smokers would love to quit. Wouldn't it be nice if insurance companies said, if you're a smoker, here's how we can help if you'd like help!

Ideal worlds.