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DNA study confirms that the ancient Philistines were Europeans

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posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 11:18 AM
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According to the bible The Philistines were a tall seafaring people who arrived as foreigners and settled on the coast of Canaan.

Both main stream archeologists and scholars have long agreed that the Philistines were Aegean greeks. The main reasons being is the fact that all of the earliest known surviving examples of Philistine pottery are remarkably similar in style to Mycenaean Greek pottery of the twelfth century BC.

Perhaps most well known Philistine was the giant Goliath, the name which is attested in the Hebrew Bible and also in several inscriptions, have no known Semitic etymologies and some linguists have proposed that they may, in fact, be of Greek or Aegean origin.



It has even been noticed that the detailed description of the armor worn by the Philistine warrior Goliath given in the First Book of Samuel 17:4–7 bears a certain vague resemblance to the style of armor known to have been worn by the Mycenaean Greeks:



And there came out from the camp of the Philistines a champion named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. He had a helmet of bronze on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. He had greaves of bronze on his legs and a javelin of bronze slung between his shoulders.

[Samuel 17:4–7]



In 2016, a large Philistine cemetery was discovered near the ancient city of Ashkelon, containing more than 100 dead buried in oval-shaped graves.

In 2017 there have also been word that scientists were conducting DNA tests on these burials which caused alot of excitement.

On July 2019 scientists published a report with their findings which already caused headlines to spread all over the web.




The geneticists sampled more than 100 specimens, mainly teeth and inner ear bones, which are both known to be good preservers of ancient DNA. But the researchers got DNA results from only 11 specimens belonging to 10 individuals who lived between 3,600 and 2,800 years ago.

"That's because the eastern Mediterranen, in general, is quite problematic for DNA preservation," Feldman said. "DNA gets degraded over time, and when the environmental conditions are warm and humid, it degrades faster." But the DNA from the 10 individuals was enough to solve the mystery. When the researchers compared DNA from the earlier, Bronze Age people with DNA from the later, Iron Age Philistines, "we saw they had an ancestral component that the Bronze Age people didn't have," Feldman said. This ancestral component was traced to southern Europe. It's hard to say exactly where in southern Europe, however, as databases of ancient DNA from this time are spotty, Feldman said.


Here is a detailed table of the Mitochondrial (MtDNA) and paternal (Y-dna) Haplogroups below.



I guess the discovery that the Philistines were European may not come as a surprise to some people.


edit on 27-8-2019 by ancienthistorian because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: ancienthistorian

Europeans as opposed to what? I know nothing of the Philistines — outside of the ‘story’ of David and Goliath — or their historical context or contributions to human history and/or anthropology; what’s the significance of European ancestry on the Mediterranean coast in 1200 CE for those of us who clicked for the DNA and not the Bible/pre-Christianity aspect? Trying to maximize my ATS returns...

Cheers



posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 02:55 PM
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did anyone read the ending to the david saga? guy was an a$$h0le



posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: Cravens
a reply to: ancienthistorian

Europeans as opposed to what? I know nothing of the Philistines — outside of the ‘story’ of David and Goliath — or their historical context or contributions to human history and/or anthropology; what’s the significance of European ancestry on the Mediterranean coast in 1200 CE for those of us who clicked for the DNA and not the Bible/pre-Christianity aspect? Trying to maximize my ATS returns...

Cheers


Europeans as opposed to a Semitic people who originated in the Levant.

The historical significance of this is that the younger range of the remains they were able to test fits into the time period associated with the Sea Peoples who attacked large swaths of the Mediterranean coast around 1200 BCE. Conversely, the remains on the older end of the spectrum could indicate a much longer period of contact and migration from the Aegean or Anatolia. That’s the very condensed version. Sea People’s if you want to see the archaeological context and varying views on the origins of the Sea People’s. as opposed to a biblical one.



posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: ancienthistorian

I guess those people who are surprised must be bad at Geography.



posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 06:31 PM
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I suppose it was similar to the Yoopers going down to Florida for the winter. Snowbirds, but with the glacier hitting Norway, the snowbirds stayed in Philistine.



posted on Aug, 27 2019 @ 10:36 PM
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1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Eric Cline, PhD)



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 08:37 AM
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Just looking into the history and origins of the Philistine culture. A very interesting and much debated subject.

I had read or heard about the idea that the Palestinians were descended from the Philistines. One theory proposes a connection between Philistine with a country called Palistin.


Syrian archaeology Edit In 2003, a statue of a king named Taita bearing inscriptions in Luwian was discovered during excavations conducted by German archeologist Kay Kohlmeyer in the Citadel of Aleppo.[58] The new readings of Anatolian hieroglyphs proposed by the Hittitologists Elisabeth Rieken and Ilya Yakubovich were conducive to the conclusion that the country ruled by Taita was called Palistin.[59] This country extended in the 11th-10th centuries BCE from the Amouq Valley in the west to Aleppo in the east down to Mehardeh and Shaizar in the south.[60] Due to the similarity between Palistin and Philistines, Hittitologist John David Hawkins (who translated the Aleppo inscriptions) hypothesizes a connection between the Syro-Hittite Palistin and the Philistines, as do archaeologists Benjamin Sass and Kay Kohlmeyer.[61] Gershon Galil suggests that King David halted the Arameans’ expansion into the Land of Israel on account of his alliance with the southern Philistine kings, as well as with Toi, king of Ḥamath, who is identified with Tai(ta) II, king of Palistin (the northern Sea Peoples).


Lots of different theories, but always a connection to a sea faring nation from further west.



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 09:19 AM
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thanks for info
I always thought the Philistines were Phoenician. of course I'm not real sure where the Phoenicians came from!

IIRC the Romans called the area Palestine after the Philistines.



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 10:39 AM
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Well DUH!
They were Mycenaen greeks, there pottery was mycenaen with local clays, their civil architechture was greek, their burial customs were greek, they brought the european boar the Canaan, which completely replaced the indiginous wild pigs by 1200 bc.
They ate dogs and pigs, none of the indigenous cultures did, those two very powerful proscriptions, against dogs and pigs, have deep roots in the region, that well predate the reliogons that espouse them.
The Phillistines controlled the manufacture and trade of copper and bronze in Canaan and surounding areas.
The greek roots were already ancient by the "philistines' became a local power, and the mycenaens were mercenaries for the minoans who had long standing influence with the coastal Canaanite cites.
The Hyksos were a Canaanite military led by Mycenaen elites under the guidence of the Egyptian /Minoan enclave at Avaris.



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
Well DUH!
They were Mycenaen greeks, there pottery was mycenaen with local clays, their civil architechture was greek, their burial customs were greek, they brought the european boar the Canaan, which completely replaced the indiginous wild pigs by 1200 bc.
They ate dogs and pigs, none of the indigenous cultures did, those two very powerful proscriptions, against dogs and pigs, have deep roots in the region, that well predate the reliogons that espouse them.
The Phillistines controlled the manufacture and trade of copper and bronze in Canaan and surounding areas.
The greek roots were already ancient by the "philistines' became a local power, and the mycenaens were mercenaries for the minoans who had long standing influence with the coastal Canaanite cites.
The Hyksos were a Canaanite military led by Mycenaen elites under the guidence of the Egyptian /Minoan enclave at Avaris.



I agree with you , How accurate do you think are Homer & Hesiod's account on the Trojan war? Because after the Trojan war some Mycenaean elites or heroes like Odysseus and Menelaus apparently sailed down towards Egypt and Phoenicia (Canaan).

I know we shouldn't mix myth with historical events but I can't help but feel there might be some grain of truth in some of these stories. your thoughts?


edit on 28-8-2019 by ancienthistorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: ancienthistorian

originally posted by: punkinworks10
Well DUH!
They were Mycenaen greeks, there pottery was mycenaen with local clays, their civil architechture was greek, their burial customs were greek, they brought the european boar the Canaan, which completely replaced the indiginous wild pigs by 1200 bc.
They ate dogs and pigs, none of the indigenous cultures did, those two very powerful proscriptions, against dogs and pigs, have deep roots in the region, that well predate the reliogons that espouse them.
The Phillistines controlled the manufacture and trade of copper and bronze in Canaan and surounding areas.
The greek roots were already ancient by the "philistines' became a local power, and the mycenaens were mercenaries for the minoans who had long standing influence with the coastal Canaanite cites.
The Hyksos were a Canaanite military led by Mycenaen elites under the guidence of the Egyptian /Minoan enclave at Avaris.



I agree with you , How accurate do you think are Homer & Hesiod's account on the Trojan war? Because after the Trojan war some Mycenaean elites or heroes like Odysseus and Menelaus apparently sailed down towards Egypt and Phoenicia (Canaan).

I know we shouldn't mix myth with historical events but I can't help but feel there might be some grain of truth in some of these stories. your thoughts?


Nearly all mythology is based in factual events, one has to be able to discern the historical from the mythological.
Given that Greek civilization collapsed and they became illiterate for several hundred years its easy to see how history became the stuff of legends.
One thing to remember at the beginning of the 2nd millenia bc, nearly the whole of the eastern med coast all the way down to Canaan was essentially "Greek". There were indigenous groups and cities, bt many of those cities had extensive agean influences and the some of the earliest traders with egypt were the Agean peoples.
As I said earlier the Mycenaens were mercenaries for the Minoans, and think of the Minoans more like the Mafia than a nation state. They would show up with trade goods, then seem to strong arm the locals into their way of things.
They also used other groups as mercenaries as wel, Sardinians, Tuscans, Sicilians, possibly even hebrews, and in the places where minoans show up, you see these other groups assert their presence as well; Mycenaens in the Levant and egypt, Sardinians and Tuscans in Egypt, first as adversaries then as mercenaries, Sardinians/Tuscans and Sicilians in coastal and inland Iberia and Sardinians in Britain. And in all of those situations you see Minoan trade goods.
So, the Minoans show up with a boat load of finished bronze goods, olive oil and saffron at your coastal town and want to trade, but they dont want to pay what you want for your tin ore or leather goods and they give you 2 months to think about it, then they show back up with a boat load of unruley Sardinians and Tuscans, with their horned helmets and thjey "convince" you to do business on their terms.
They did a pretty good job of conquring the Nile delta, as the Hyksos, those wandering Canaanite armies that built buildings like greeks and buried their dead like greeks, and when they invaded the Delta, where did they make a beeline for? Avaris, the Minoan port city of the Delta.



posted on Aug, 28 2019 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: ancienthistorian

Nice picture of Nathan Jones from the movie Troy.

He is pure English/Germanic, Anglo Saxon stock.

6' 9" Aussie.

Yes he is big, ex World Strongman title, holder...and one time WWE wrestler.






posted on Aug, 29 2019 @ 04:07 AM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Thanks for your insight you're probably the most educated person on this topic



posted on Sep, 2 2019 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: ancienthistorian

If you really consider Mycenean Greeks "Europeans" as to lump them into some sort of name for some kind of race or group of vastly different genealogical, cultural, and religious make up, some of which rarely or never interacted with and/or bred with the others.

They were as European or less so than modern day Israelis that came from the WWII exodus. We don't consider them European even though many look Eastern European and are only a small fraction "Jew", however dna testing determines that. Not only that but they lived in that region for some centuries, not less than just one in the case of Israelis. It was also during a time before there were lines in the sand like today with Israel and the Islamic Middle East so sharing dna through children was more common perhaps.

Indigenous Mexicans, Argentinians, Brazilians and Cubans resembled American Indians more than any racial group prior to the 1500's onward. None had Spanish names, culture or language. Are they considered of mostly, half, or even a third Spanish, European?

Spanish as an ethnic group that is, formed from Iberian and Gaulic tribes (Where'd the Iberians come from by the way, and why did they have darker complexions?) as well as the Moors who were North African and as much Middle Eastern as Hispanics are European.

The Phillistines weren't European and Mycenean Greeks weren't European either. It'd be quite the stretch to classify them as such and if someone did, it's just an organizational tool without much genetic or cultural basis.
edit on 2-9-2019 by FlyingSquirrel because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 12:48 AM
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Puts a whole new spin on the whole "philistine foreskin" issue... Thats about the only thing I can think of when someone mentions the Philistines. Backpack sized foreskins.

Just a little FYI.. in Madinat Habu at the Temple of Ramses 3 and within the Harris papyrus... their ill fated invasion on Egypt is recorded. Theyre called the prst or Peleset. Id imagine the library at ALexandria had some meat and potatoes, but blame the Xtians, Caesars or Caliph. Depending on which version you hold dear.



posted on Sep, 3 2019 @ 01:10 AM
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a reply to: FlyingSquirrel



The Phillistines weren't European and Mycenean Greeks weren't European either. It'd be quite the stretch to classify them as such and if someone did, it's just an organizational tool without much genetic or cultural basis.


The Indo european tribes including the Mycenaens greeks were most definitely European. I made a thread on this topic awhile ago , The ancient greek poets and authors described the Mycenaens as blonde , blue eyed fair skinned people.

Although Its likely that the Mycenaens became more mixed with other ethnicities after importing slaves from other countries seeing that slavery was a thing back then.



edit on 3-9-2019 by ancienthistorian because: (no reason given)



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