Jacob Rees-Mogg issues style guide to staff

a reply to: ScepticScot

[quote]Double space after full stops hasnt been considered correct for years.

By whom?

When you say not correct, do you mean a lot of people don't bother because they never learned?

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: ScepticScot

[quote]Double space after full stops hasnt been considered correct for years.

By whom?

When you say not correct, do you mean a lot of people don't bother because they never learned?

it's not considers correct in business use and hasn't been in years. It's a typing convention from pre word processors.

Just because something is old does not make it correct.

a reply to: uncommitted

Sorry for weird quoting on above post. Phone getting hit with pop ups!

Of course, it all seems rather pedantic, but I think a lot of you are missing the subtlety of the point Rees-Mogg is making, and it is 'the' point that can apply to ATS posts.

When I read through the list of recent posts, I won't touch any post displaying bad grammar or awful punctuation, as I can only discern a poster's intellect by how they write. How a person writes presents their level of education, so it is essential that when posts are made we at least try to present ourselves in a way that we ignite a little confidence in the reader that we are not wasting the reader's time with utter nonsense.

Rees-Mogg is a very highly educated man, having a high-level classical education at both Eton and Oxford, and neither you nor I work or socialise in the same circles he does. He has in his person full awareness and responsibility in political and social diplomacy and statesmanship (something Trump could only dream of). Our level of education won't match his, nor will our sense of 'tradition' hold the same perspective.

As one who voted to leave the EU I am happy he is on-board with Johnson to finally deliver Brexit in October.

a reply to: elysiumfire

How a person writes presents their level of education

Shouldn't that be "represents" their level of education....egg meet face

Any way dude am totally dyslexic, I can't spell for #, doesn't make me stupid, I have a degree am working on a maters, poor grammar and spelling don't mean a thing, being a pompous tit though...now thats a different story.

OtherSideOfTheCoin:

Shouldn't that be "represents" their level of education....egg meet face

Er...no. What you write is a presentation, not a representation.

As for your dyslexia, fair enough. Maybe they have degrees where dyslexic people can wrongly spell their thesis all over the place and still pass? Of course not, spell check is your friend. Poor grammar and punctuation is everything if you want to be taken seriously, degree or no degree.

It's not about being 'pompous', it is about using the tools of your education correctly.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
OtherSideOfTheCoin:

Shouldn't that be "represents" their level of education....egg meet face

Er...no. What you write is a presentation, not a representation.

As for your dyslexia, fair enough. Maybe they have degrees where dyslexic people can wrongly spell their thesis all over the place and still pass? Of course not, spell check is your friend. Poor grammar and punctuation is everything if you want to be taken seriously, degree or no degree.

It's not about being 'pompous', it is about using the tools of your education correctly.

Nah # that brah, you take this # way too seriously now am away to get pished.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: ScepticScot

[quote]Double space after full stops hasnt been considered correct for years.

By whom?

When you say not correct, do you mean a lot of people don't bother because they never learned?

it's not considers correct in business use and hasn't been in years. It's a typing convention from pre word processors.

Just because something is old does not make it correct.

Sorry, it's me that messed up the quoting. I personally don't think phrases like it's not correct are fairly meaningless for a style guide which is more about maintaining a level of consistency. I also personally think that a lot of the grammatical rules we grew up with don't hold a lot of weight when you think them through, but then as they were by and large defined by individuals in the (mainly) 18th and 19th century, many of whom were clergymen indulging in this as a hobby, it's hardly surprising.

I'm not too sure I agree that all of JRM's 'rules' are for the good - a comma after 'and' in the right context is fine to me, although more so in literature, but again, this is aiming for consistency more than anything.

The correspondence is in his name so he’s entitled to instruct civil servants about how he wishes his letters and emails to be presented. He’ll be signing them off, after all.

That being said, JRM and his whole demeanour is effete and contrived. Plenty people have had a marvellous, privileged education and haven’t come out of it talking and acting the way he does. Stephen Fry is just as bad. Jamie Oliver is the complete opposite, he so wants to be one of the lads he’d sell his soul to the devil ... then sauté it, wham bam pukka pukka.

I kinda feel that acting that way, not being genuine, it makes people less trustworthy. Double space. Don’t you think ?

originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
The correspondence is in his name so he’s entitled to instruct civil servants about how he wishes his letters and emails to be presented. He’ll be signing them off, after all.

That being said, JRM and his whole demeanour is effete and contrived. Plenty people have had a marvellous, privileged education and haven’t come out of it talking and acting the way he does. Stephen Fry is just as bad. Jamie Oliver is the complete opposite, he so wants to be one of the lads he’d sell his soul to the devil ... then sauté it, wham bam pukka pukka.

I kinda feel that acting that way, not being genuine, it makes people less trustworthy. Double space. Don’t you think ?

I am in agreement with you to a large extent, the only caveat being I don't know if with Fry and JRM it's nature as opposed to nurture, but yes, Jamie Oliver does over sell it.... didn't do him too much harm though, did it?

I do have the same unease with professional Northerners/Scots/scousers/mancunians/Yorkshire people, mockney cockneys, residents of New Jersey - and the list would go on but it's way too long. Thing is though, each to their own really.

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, I am a stickler for standards so agree with this type of approach. It should be adopted across the public sector.

On metric, the UK is perhaps unique in that we use both metric and imperial interchangeably. My kids are taught metric, but roll with imperial too. It's no big deal and clearly agitates the French and the EU. Poor things.

Metric for maths and imperial for intoxicants

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, I am a stickler for standards so agree with this type of approach. It should be adopted across the public sector.

On metric, the UK is perhaps unique in that we use both metric and imperial interchangeably. My kids are taught metric, but roll with imperial too. It's no big deal and clearly agitates the French and the EU. Poor things.

Metric for maths and imperial for intoxicants

And miles, I also tend to think of my height and weight first in imperial standards but then maybe that just shows my age.

a reply to: elysiumfire

as for that quote "how a person writes represents their level of education"

Whilst true in terms of reading and writing , apart from that it doesnt represent their education , just your expectations of other people and your own ego , that in order for the world to work , everyone has to be equally educated and have good english !

Load of #e , a person who has never learned to read or write may have vast knowledge an intelligence of other subjects which you have very little understanding of !

Such as a shaman in the jungle may have vast knowledge of plants , that you dont have , but because they cant read or write doesnt mean that they are any less intelligent

so much #in ego , because of Western exceptionalism

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, I am a stickler for standards so agree with this type of approach. It should be adopted across the public sector.

On metric, the UK is perhaps unique in that we use both metric and imperial interchangeably. My kids are taught metric, but roll with imperial too. It's no big deal and clearly agitates the French and the EU. Poor things.

Metric for maths and imperial for intoxicants

And miles, I also tend to think of my height and weight first in imperial standards but then maybe that just shows my age.

Definitely an age thing.

I do height and weight of people in imperial but height and weight of objects in metric.

Volume generally metric. Do beer in pints, wine in metric.

Longer distance imperial, shorter metric.

Frankly amazed we get anything done with the constant conversion our brains must do.

a reply to: ScepticScot

and its all just varying degrees of separation like hot and cold are the same thing only separated by degrees of temperature which is a value we have given it , but its all the same thing

without a form of measurement life is literally meaningless hahaha

I think that its mental that we have constructed a way to measure things, but arent really measurements as such
because we have constructed the measurements as mental ideas to understand the same thing !

originally posted by: elysiumfire
OtherSideOfTheCoin:

Shouldn't that be "represents" their level of education....egg meet face

Er...no. What you write is a presentation, not a representation.

As for your dyslexia, fair enough. Maybe they have degrees where dyslexic people can wrongly spell their thesis all over the place and still pass? Of course not, spell check is your friend. Poor grammar and punctuation is everything if you want to be taken seriously, degree or no degree.

It's not about being 'pompous', it is about using the tools of your education correctly.

Another way of looking at this would be, the level of intelligence of a members post is irrelevant unless they use spell check to satisfy your ocd.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
OtherSideOfTheCoin:

Shouldn't that be "represents" their level of education....egg meet face

Er...no. What you write is a presentation, not a representation.

As for your dyslexia, fair enough. Maybe they have degrees where dyslexic people can wrongly spell their thesis all over the place and still pass? Of course not, spell check is your friend. Poor grammar and punctuation is everything if you want to be taken seriously, degree or no degree.

It's not about being 'pompous', it is about using the tools of your education correctly.

Humans who suffer dyslexia and attend university are given a whole host of software to help them produce documents without any errors there are many , we have to test the documents we produce for accessibility as standard now.

So even the most dyslexic person will be able to produce documents which are grammatically correct and with zero spelling errors or punctuation errors.

As for the every day person , well they dont have those nice software packages because they are expensive , however I think as a standard if you are diagnosed the NHS should give you this software to keep for life !

the same with people who suffer number dyslexia , they should be given this software , like on their phone or mobile device.



In any case , being taken seriously is a bit Egotistical , cant you just relate to humans by the fact they are the same species as you , regardless of their level of education and the value your ego places on that !

your post about that just reeks of Intellectual superiority complex , it may not be the case but you have to look at it this way . Just because someone may not have the same level of education doesn't mean you should treat them any differently
or take them any less serious , because that would be dehumanising and amoral

Anyone who has a sister called "Annunziata" is doomed by birth to become a complete tool. Which he is.

Am I correct in believing that he pays very little UK tax due to his offshore stuff?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
Am I correct in believing that he pays very little UK tax due to his offshore stuff?

He pays tax on his UK earnings. He's obviously got a few bob in the bank though.

Register of interests

Anyone who has done any sort of governmental writing will know that each department has it's own requirements. Even in the military there is a whole Joint Service Publication (JSP 101) for the intricacies of how to write emails, memos, letters etc. This goes right down to spacing, text font and size (Ariel 11 btw), spacing, numbering/bullet point use, how to address people, exact wording etc. It's all perfectly normal.

JRM is using this to lay down some ground rules while at the same time marking his new position as Leader of the House of Commons.