Rand Paul: Ilhan Omar deserves 'rebuke over trying to say we have a rotten country’

It seems to me that someone can criticise the nation without hating it.

It also would be safe to assume someone can criticise it and hate it.

The latter could very reasonably be seen as "un-American." If an individual, or group of individuals, truly hate the nation they reside, and their criticism is born from that.. well.. there really are other places in the world that might be a better fit.

Trying to fundamentally transform a nation directly against its founding principles, by using the freedom those principles created, isnt exactly a good faith position. Its disingenuous at absolute best.

I dont personally know Omar, but I cant say it would be a surprise if her criticism was based in a desire to change the nation in ways that are in direct opposition to the "spirit" of its creation.

I truly believe that there are plenty of people that would be genuinely happier planting their roots in a different country. A place where they dont have to fight and destroy its "culture" and premise because they think they know best.

originally posted by: blueman12
The whole "love America or leave" lately seems an attempt to justify Trump's bad tweets.

I know this was much earlier in the thread but I'm just baffled by how someone can be this deluded. Same people who think the media was respected and trusted before Trump came along and started calling them fake news (which was actually a term the left invented that backfired on them badly). You guys really do live in a world of your own.

a reply to: Artemis12

My issue with her statements are the fact we took her in as a refugee, if she were a natural born American citizen saying we suck, fine. I disagree with it, but no issues there. However if you come as a refugee to a country, and then you complain about said country, you can always go back from where you were fleeing, or really any other country that you don't think sucks.

a reply to: Artemis12

Parents tell +18 year old children to obey the rules of the house, or move out if they won't obey, or don't like them.

The same goes for any American who doesn't like the principles this country is founded upon.

People literally die, trying to get to America.

We'll glady swap one hater for one person who appreciates what America offers.

What if a Republican Congressman referred to Obama in 2010 by yelling, "Impeach the MuthaFuker!"

Democrats/MSM would have had that person drummed out of Congress...with significant help from Republicans in Congress.

nvm

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Your questions over simplify and dehumanize. Hamas was "elected" and now palastinians deserve anything israeli troops do to them?

And what makes israeli any better than hamas if they act like them? Especially with greater institutional power behind them.

Even if you equate the situation to two countries at war, israel is still committing war crimes.

Im guessing you're of the same opinion that innocents should be killed by drones b/c their community is run by a terrorist or anti-u.s. group?

No point in ralking to me then. Im fundamentally for peace when possible and you're for peace through war and violence if "needed". Or in other words, the ends justify the means.

a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

Funny thing. You never fullg explained why you agreed with trump's tweets. I disagree with trump and somehow that makes me brainwashed??

I disagreed with obama, biden, hillary, bush and alot of other left or right politicians. However, it was only until i started criticizing Trump that I've been called a brainwashed hard left lunatic.

Just seems like you're caught up in the politic game. If you cant criticize Trump fof something, then you should rethink why that is!

a reply to: BuckyWunderlick

He called congresswomen (plural) to go back and fix their countries. He screwed up or is an idiot. He doesn't admit he made a mistake in his wording and double downed.

You don't find anything wrong with that?

He can't just say i made a mistake on twitter and meant to say; "........... ". I was listening to ben shapiro who is right and agrees with trump on many things. Even he says trump made a mistake and it looked bad.

Yet you're incapable of admitting such...

And im brainwashed?

a reply to: Artemis12

Well, I agree with Rand Paul on this. The bigger question is how did this woman get elected, and will some people with common sense PLEASE show up to vote against her next time.

A mentally unstable U.S. Congresswoman (yes..a member of CONGRESS!) RASHIDA TLAIB being removed from a meeting.

VidClip: twitter.com...

Well, how do you expect someone who yells "Impeach The MuthaFuker!" to act?

Republicans love you Rashida. Don't change a thing!

Trump never criticised America, he criticised the leadership.

Some people are thick as sh!t.

Trump sure hated America during Obama's Presidency! Should have he gone back to Germany? The reality of being an American is being able to criticize the government using First Amendment rights. To say otherwise is un-American at its core!

Also, Trump himself is spreading lies about what Omar has said and not said. I would like to see a video or source showing exactly what she has said, and proving it. Then I will state my opinion.

She is not only an American citizen but an elected representative of the people in her district. They elected her based on her opinions. Denying perspectives that aren't your own is a totalitarian tactic fit for the dictators Trump loves so much.

I would recommend

1) Stating exactly what she said, and proving it. It is vital that you base your counter-argument on facts, not false propaganda, or it is automatically invalid.

2) Responding with a reasonable argument - not an emotional or totalitarian one, like chanting "Send her back."

3) Not being triggered when someone says something you don't like

4) Respecting the First Amendment right of an American citizen to have their own opinion, even if it is different than yours.

5) Free speech is NOT the freedom to suppress other people's views.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
trump said nothing but bad things about our country when he was running for president.
Everything about american sucked before he got it. Hes the best thing since sliced bread as we were nothing but a #hole country and we will be again once he is not president any more so you better make him president for life if you know whats good for you.

Can you post what he said bad about the country? Then maybe we can debate it, or do we just say it is true based on you said so...lol So liberal...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Here is a link detailing many times Trump criticized America. Did Democrats tell him to go back to Germany because he didn't like the way they were running things? No. Trump kept his opinion and ran for office.

You might have to travel or meet people outside of your bubble to learn some wisdom, but the reality is, not everyone thinks as you do in America, and they have the freedom to think differently than you. Trump lost the popular vote. By all accounts, your conservative views are in the minority.

If you don't agree with Democrats and their ideas, debate them. Run for office. But don't silence them. Karma exists in this world, and if you can't take it, you shouldn't dish it out.

I think it's incredibly stupid for someone whose views are in the minority to advocate silencing the voice of Americans they don't agree with.

Example of someone who can't take what they dish out: Trump criticized Obama, even faking the idea that his birth certificate was not valid. Yet he gets triggered whenever anyone disagrees with him and even supports deporting a member of Congress.

The Guardian

originally posted by: darkbake

Here is a link detailing many times Trump criticized America. Did Democrats tell him to go back to Germany because he didn't like the way they were running things? No. Trump kept his opinion and ran for office.

What he said is not wrong...pretty much is all correct as to what I read in the article. If you can't see the difference from what the 4 congress women have been saying then I don't know what to say. Pick one thing and we can debate it...

originally posted by: darkbake

Example of someone who can't take what they dish out: Trump criticized Obama, even faking the idea that his birth certificate was not valid. Yet he gets triggered whenever anyone disagrees with him and even supports deporting a member of Congress.

Actually that was Hillary, get you facts straight... lol Trump just jump on what Hillary created...

Ya what Trump said was not good, I can agree with that, but everything out of these four women is extremism, so do you agree with what they say?

a reply to: Xtrozero

I’ll enter in a discussion with you. I’m starting by reading about the Green New Deal. It’s a non-binding resolution, so it would serve as an ideal goal.

I think it is factual that climate change is real and will have an effect on the Earth. What to do about it, though? It looks like they want to decarbonize the economy 100% by 2030. That would help climate change, if other countries followed suit, but it might disrupt jobs and will certainly anger a few rich people in the carbon business. I like creative policies, like planting trees and I read of something to do with the ocean. I would recommend doing something, but not 100%.

I have no idea what a federal jobs guarantee is, but it sounds ripe for criticism.

Anyway, there is a debate on the following link, I like the conservative proposal the guy who made the rebuttal makes. He says to cut the social programs out of the plan and use market-driven technology like carbon capturing and other techniques to solve the problem. This sounds fine. Not fine is ignoring or denying climate change.

I believe there are going to have to be some social plans implemented in this nation, at some point. We already have socialist institutions like public schools, libraries, police, even the military. It isn’t going to turn us into a communist state to look into healthcare solutions.

We need to have a social safety net. However, the federal government insuring the jobs of the caliber mentioned in the NGD with the benefits mentioned sounds impractical.

On a side note, Yang mentions that robots will start taking American jobs. Who knows what the work force will look like in the future, but something needs to be done to allow a college graduate to earn enough money to survive, as well as others. It used to be possible for the man of the house to have a career and be able to afford a house, one or two cars, a few kids, and send them off to college.

These days, there are people working full-time who can barely afford an apartment to themselves. Colleges have gotten more expensive. If this trend continues, it could mean a decreasing middle-class, which is not good for social stability - as you can see here, it leads to policies like this being proposed. It is in everyone’s best interest for it to be possible to earn a living wage in America. We can’t have the wealth gap increase too much while letting the middle-class sink.

At any rate, the solution is not to deport these congresswomen or smear them or spread lies about them, those are retarded tactics that make it look like Republicans have no coherent argument against the proposal. The best tactic would be to offer a conservative counter-proposal that addresses the same issues in a conservative manner.

Green New Deal

a reply to: Xtrozero

I’ll enter in a discussion with you. I’m starting by reading about the Green New Deal. It’s a non-binding resolution, so it would serve as an ideal goal, that’s about it.

I think it is factual that climate change is real and will have an effect on the Earth. What to do about it, though? It looks like they want to decarbonize the economy 100% by 2050. That would help climate change, if other countries followed suit, but it might disrupt jobs and will certainly anger a few rich people in the carbon business. I like creative policies, like planting trees and I read of something to do with the ocean. I would recommend doing something, but not 100%.

Anyway, there is a debate on the link at the bottom of the page, I like the conservative proposal the guy who made the rebuttal makes. He says to cut the social programs out of the plan and use market-driven technology like carbon capturing and other techniques to solve the problem. This sounds fine. Not fine is ignoring or denying climate change.

I believe there are going to have to be some social plans implemented in this nation, at some point. We already have socialist institutions like public schools, libraries, police, even the military. It isn’t going to turn us into a communist state to look into healthcare solutions.

We need to have a social safety net. However, the federal government ensuring the jobs of the caliber mentioned in the NGD with the benefits mentioned sounds impractical.

On a side note, Yang mentions that robots will start taking American jobs. Who knows what the work force will look like in the future, but something needs to be done to allow a college graduate to earn enough money to survive, as well as others. It used to be possible for the man of the house to have a career and be able to afford a house, one or two cars, a few kids, and send them off to college, and even save up for retirement at the same time.

These days, there are people working full-time who can barely afford an apartment to themselves. Colleges have gotten more expensive. If this trend continues, it could mean a decreasing middle-class, which is not good for social stability - as you can see here, it leads to policies like this being proposed. It is in everyone’s best interest for it to be possible to earn a living wage in America. We can’t have the wealth gap increase too much while letting the middle-class sink.

At any rate, the solution is not to deport these congresswomen or smear them or spread lies about them, those are retarded tactics that make it look like Republicans have no coherent argument against the proposal. The best tactic would be to offer a conservative counter-proposal that addresses the same issues in a conservative manner. If conservatives don’t even bother to try to solve real issues our country faces, how can they expect their policies to prevail? And if they have solutions, why not talk about those instead of parading around insulting political opponents and stirring up hate?

Green New Deal