Here Comes the Propaganda - Dead Bodies... Orange Man Fault

Hi I'm a Brit and I'm new (in showing interest) to politics.
I've always (wrongly) assumed I am non political, but the more I watch and read, the more I seem to lean right/republican (if I was American)

I just wanted to know how long the crisis has been a crisis now, and has the problem got consistently worse over the last say, 20 years?

Thanks in advance.
FA

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Lumenari

You are talking about Christians, good people, right? They would and should care.

Look at the world around us, it is filled with chaos. Any of us, no matter which country we come from could point to sad news stories happening within our civilized realm.

I care that there is a crisis, but what's the proposal on "fixing" it? It sucks that he felt he had to take his infant daughter and swim across a river to get to America for a better life. But that is not a right of anyone to just enter at your whim, and it's not my or my countries fault when your plans to go across a dessert fail.

This is being politicized, and it's all because an election is coming up. There are many good ideas out there how to address the root problems, but these mush mouthed politicians don't really give a s###.

Up until trump ran for president, dems were bitching and moaning about border problems and sometimes about immigration, obama said it, Clinton said it, it goes back a ways. Now the dems have done a complete 180, which simply indicates there positions are flexible according to whatever lie or agenda they wish to promote.

Nobody told people to cross the border, this is on them. I feel bad for the kids, but nothing for their parents that would use them as a shield or bargaining chip. If anyone is responsible for this mess, it's the dems, as they constantly use this now as a political wedge. They had 8 years with Obama to fix the mess and 8 years with clinton. Hell, I was contacts by shrub's government in 2007 to look at putting my tech on the border, which was quashed of course by Obama.

These problems falls at the feet of the dems if they are going to hold up fixing this mess.

Cheers - Dave

Strange thing is there are more of this type of defensive posturing threads than any blaming anyones god, I mean Pres

lots of replies from the usual Trump admin team, not many from the dims blaming said demi god, huh go figure?

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
Strange thing is there are more of this type of defensive posturing threads than any blaming anyones god, I mean Pres

lots of replies from the usual Trump admin team, not many from the dims blaming said demi god, huh go figure?

Leftist can't defend this sh*t...

NY Times, CNN, WaPo, and others all ran articles trying to tie deaths to Trump's policies while ignoring that Democrats refuse to secure the border which is what is causing these people to attempt to come to the US in the first place.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
None of them qualify as asylum seekers

Not
A
Single
One

Many have been granted so I guess that can't be true can it.

7.) U.S. immigration officials have, over the years, failed to recognize circumstances in which large numbers of people are legitimately seeking political asylum, and thus have contributed to humanitarian tragedies.


From turning back German Jewish refugees in the late 1930s, to denying asylum status to Haitians fleeing the Duvalier dictatorship, to opposing the asylum claims of Salvadorans fleeing political violence in the 1980s, successive administrations have repeatedly underestimated the seriousness of human rights abuses, with political calculations overtaking humanitarian concerns.

During El Salvador’s and Guatemala’s civil wars, now widely recognized to have been characterized by widespread human rights abuses and where the repressive governments’ were backed by the United States, the United States rejected almost all asylum claims from these countries.

In 1984, only three percent of the asylum cases from these countries were granted, in contrast to much higher numbers of approvals for citizens of countries whose governments were considered hostile to the United States (such as Iranians and Afghans fleeing the Soviet invasion); an outcome which had more to do with political decisions rather than assessing the merits of the claims themselves.

www.wola.org...

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Edumakated

There is some pretty convincing speculation that that picture is fake.

Also, why in the #e!! would a parent try to cross the Rio Grande River with a baby. That's just plain stupid.

That's what I thought too. Crisis actors. How does one drown AFTER crossing the river safely and making it to dry land?

I see no link about details, how did you conclude this? Bodies wash ashore after drowning, they nearly always do so what do you mean?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Guyfriday

We have so many killings in Chicago every week, I have no problem looking at this man/child as an "alleged" death. Even if it's real, it's just 2 of thousands of people who die every day, due to their own mistakes. (Electrocution...eating too much...fighting.. etc.)

I'm guessing you don't have kids...
Hell, I don't even think you have a family.

originally posted by: XCrycek

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Guyfriday

We have so many killings in Chicago every week, I have no problem looking at this man/child as an "alleged" death. Even if it's real, it's just 2 of thousands of people who die every day, due to their own mistakes. (Electrocution...eating too much...fighting.. etc.)

I'm guessing you don't have kids...
Hell, I don't even think you have a family.

I have two. They are in their early 20's now. Why do you ask...or even care?

I'm guessing you're still quite young, if the variety of people God made, is still "surprising" you in life?

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
None of them qualify as asylum seekers

Not
A
Single
One

Many have been granted so I guess that can't be true can it.

7.) U.S. immigration officials have, over the years, failed to recognize circumstances in which large numbers of people are legitimately seeking political asylum, and thus have contributed to humanitarian tragedies.


From turning back German Jewish refugees in the late 1930s, to denying asylum status to Haitians fleeing the Duvalier dictatorship, to opposing the asylum claims of Salvadorans fleeing political violence in the 1980s, successive administrations have repeatedly underestimated the seriousness of human rights abuses, with political calculations overtaking humanitarian concerns.

During El Salvador’s and Guatemala’s civil wars, now widely recognized to have been characterized by widespread human rights abuses and where the repressive governments’ were backed by the United States, the United States rejected almost all asylum claims from these countries.

In 1984, only three percent of the asylum cases from these countries were granted, in contrast to much higher numbers of approvals for citizens of countries whose governments were considered hostile to the United States (such as Iranians and Afghans fleeing the Soviet invasion); an outcome which had more to do with political decisions rather than assessing the merits of the claims themselves.

www.wola.org...

The US isn't the only country that people can get to in seeking asylum, but for some strange reason we are the most popular...

Secondly, it simply isn't feasible to take every single person who wants to come to this country whether they have an asylum claim or not. The math simply doesn't work.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: XCrycek

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Guyfriday

We have so many killings in Chicago every week, I have no problem looking at this man/child as an "alleged" death. Even if it's real, it's just 2 of thousands of people who die every day, due to their own mistakes. (Electrocution...eating too much...fighting.. etc.)

I'm guessing you don't have kids...
Hell, I don't even think you have a family.

I have two. They are in their early 20's now. Why do you ask...or even care?

How can you be so cold hearted man? The kid in the picture was only two years of age. Imagine your kids at that age. Do you remember your kids at that age?

I used to watch the TV series "Border Wars" and much of the action was on the Rio Grande. The border patrol was very sensitive about illegals crossing the river because they'd often find dead bodies of people who didn't make it across. I have no doubt that if they had observed this guy and his small child trying to swim across, they would have helped him to avoid a drowning.

Often times the illegals came across in small boats and make shift rafts that were over loaded and the border agents were alerted to the crossing by vehicles on our side waiting to make the pickup after they crossed. If the illegals spotted the border patrol, they'd head back to Mexico and once half way back across the river, the patrol was helpless to act as they were technically back in Mexico. At this point the illegals would taunt them and laugh because they got back across the border without being caught.

I wouldn't blame the border agents or the president for this unfortunate accident, it happened because an illegal made the choice to swim across the river in a dangerous area, likely because there was no barrier on the US side at that point in the river. They weren't wearing any PFDs, not even some home made ones, clearly a bad move with deadly consequences.

I don't think that the adult realized the seriousness of trying to swim across a river with a toddler in tow. I once swam across a slow moving river fully clothed when I was a teenager. It wasn't far and the current was slow, but I barely made it. It was stupid and I knew the risks, but I did it anyway and was lucky to make it across alive. However, I was a stupid teenager without the responsibility of taking a toddler with me. This guy that drowned shouldn't have tried to swim across, it was his decision alone that caused this horrible event. To try and blame the president for it is following the political propaganda rule of "don't let a good tragedy go to waste". Pathetic and heartless to try and use this event to discredit the president and it sickens me that they parade that picture around while doing so.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: UpIsNowDown
Strange thing is there are more of this type of defensive posturing threads than any blaming anyones god, I mean Pres

lots of replies from the usual Trump admin team, not many from the dims blaming said demi god, huh go figure?

Leftist can't defend this sh*t...

NY Times, CNN, WaPo, and others all ran articles trying to tie deaths to Trump's policies while ignoring that Democrats refuse to secure the border which is what is causing these people to attempt to come to the US in the first place.

Well at least Beto went all in - unfortunately his supporters have no long term memory and goldfish-level short term

a reply to: FinallyAwake

Oh, it's been a problem for decades.

What's truly amazing, and hilarious in a strange sort of way, is that you'll find that many of the strident anti-wall voices were, just a few short years ago, most vocal about border security, and that something must be done to secure the border...

You simply can not write this stuff. Only in the real world would this actually happen...

If they would have had the wall in place, crossing the river to get to the other side would not have happened and those two might still be alive. They would never have gone that way to get into the USA. They would have gone to the areas where the wall openings were and maybe legally gotten into the country instead of trying to sneak across at that unsafe point.

The Democrats fighting the creation of the wall is stupid, they are contributing to a lot of injustice and criminal activity. Many of the young girls and women paying to get shuffled across are sexually abused as part of the payment. This activity would not be happening if they just took a bus to the entry point and applied to get a visa, those visas for good people should be cheap.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: Edumakated

They don't care.

THEY don't care.

They don't CARE.

As many bodies as it takes to make a political point,,,

They don't care.

Disgusting people, really.

Weird that they have people that will continue to support them.

But that's where we are now.

Republicans for Choice From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democrats for Life of America From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps the situation is more complicated than your opinion?

This tragedy being politicized is pure propaganda.

I guessed you missed the part where it about the border.

Oh!!!!

Here in America the border isn't the ocean.

I forgot your particular... circumstance again.

I apologize but in the realm of American politics online you are not really that memorable.

Yes but you are politicizing a tragedy, saying that the Democrats don't care. Yet the Reeeepublicans are the ones who seem to not give a damn about the humanitarian crisis there, because it might mess with their personal comfort and greed (you know, the whole "they come here to take our jobs and sponge off social services that WE pay for with OUR taxes").

Sure turn away those who don't really fit the criteria for asylum but don't accuse the ones that do fit of being drug dealers, rapists and terrorists, when they clearly aren't.

Take for instance all the stuff that Trump said about the caravans. Been 2 years, where's the evidence that any of it is true? Yet he escalates the rhetoric and classifies an improving situation into a fake 'national emergency'.

And to top it all off, you guys use this for propaganda?

Really?

Democrats refused to even acknowledge there was a crisis. Not until the manufactured caravans started moving. They knew what would happen, and sprung on it because it was politically expedient. And only then. They refuse to do anything about the border so long as its not what THEY want. What they want is a completely open border. Warren said as much in the first debate.

At what point do progressives recognize they are creating an "attractive nuisance" by not securing the border?

I am not from the US, so don't start labeling me left or right please.
Left-wing, right-wing, same pea brained eagle in my book, but each to his own.

However, I have not heard a plan to secure the US yet. I did hear a little oompa-loompa talking about building a wall but clearly you can't be referring to that because if people are crossing rivers to get there, surely we can see a wall would not be of benefit.

There are literay hundreds of floaters on the Rio Grande ever year. This isn't new, but dead children tug at the heart strings, unless they are aborted.

originally posted by: Guyfriday

originally posted by: Fallingdown

It’s sad to say.

But we might be the first country in human civilization to fall from “ feelings “.

That will confuse historians in the future.

Only because historians may not understand the nuance of guilt tripping people into thinking we must save everybody who wants to to come here for a better economic life. That is the mistake of socialism and globalism all mixed up into one ball.

originally posted by: byteshertz

At what point do progressives recognize they are creating an "attractive nuisance" by not securing the border?

I am not from the US, so don't start labeling me left or right please.
Left-wing, right-wing, same pea brained eagle in my book, but each to his own.

However, I have not heard a plan to secure the US yet. I did hear a little oompa-loompa talking about building a wall but clearly you can't be referring to that because if people are crossing rivers to get there, surely we can see a wall would not be of benefit.

Just because he tried to cross the river doesn’t mean the wall doesn’t deter others, it just happens that was the place he chose to come over the border. By the way, why the caravans don’t stop at Mexico? Did you know Mexico had the same jobs we do? They have gold mining, agriculture, construction , etc. but it pays less.