Lazar, Greer and Wilson Memo

a reply to: Falkner

1. We have Bob Lazar detailing his 6 months experiencing in trying reverse engineer a specific warp drive

Six months huh! When was that?

We have Steven Greer, a surgeon, stepping aside medicine to pursue a "not so reputable" topic of ufology.

Nah sorry been there and found the holes in his story. .

3. Now we have the so called "Wilson leak" (was it leaked or made available?) confirming much of what as been said by Lazar, Greer and others. Along with further names coming out.

While the document may well be genuine. All it proves is someone said this to someone else. None of the claims can actually be verified. A bit like the Guy Hottel memo. Which coincidentally Greer uses to prove "alien" bodies were recovered.

Every day now a new sighting is reported by media, and if you pay attention you'll note there is been a shift in reporting styles,

Maybe, the UK tabloids have always reported sightings. A more serious attitude is refreshing from the broadsheets. But we still need uncontroversial proof that what is being sighted is not man-made or natural.

Coming 10 years will blow our minds.

We'll see. I think they've been saying similar things since the 1950s

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Maverick7

You seem like the kind of person who would've supported the judgement against Galileo. The suggestion of the possibilities that exist beyond your limited imagination is heresy in your eyes apparently. Burn us at the stake.

Which one is Galileo in this scenario - Lazar or Greer?

a reply to: Falkner

And dont forget this little bombshell of a Patent filed by the US Navy.
patents.google.com...

Craft using an inertial mass reduction device
Abstract
A craft using an inertial mass reduction device comprises of an inner resonant cavity wall, an outer resonant cavity, and microwave emitters. The electrically charged outer resonant cavity wall and the electrically insulated inner resonant cavity wall form a resonant cavity. The microwave emitters create high frequency electromagnetic waves throughout the resonant cavity causing the resonant cavity to vibrate in an accelerated mode and create a local polarized vacuum outside the outer resonant cavity wall.

In plain English:
mysteriousuniverse.org...

The patent contains some fascinating statements about the significance of this system, through which “extreme speeds can be achieved.” According to the patent, reducing the internal mass of the craft would mean it’s possible to reduce its inertia, or resistance to motion. Doing so would allow the craft a level of maneuverability and speed not seen in conventional aircraft, potentially revolutionizing aerospace engineering as we know it:

If we can engineer the structure of the local quantum vacuum state, we can engineer the fabric of our reality at the most fundamental level (thus affecting a physical system’s inertial and gravitational properties). This realization would greatly advance the fields of aerospace propulsion and power generation.

Dr. Steven Greer is not to be confused with the likes of book to bucks "UFOlogists".

Dr. Steven Greer did not need to go into this career for a source of income. You can take that off his motivation list.

He was extremely close to having disclosure of classified projects involving the military and UFO activity in 2001, and was having meetings with Congress over the matter.

(The events of September that year, really took the attention away from his efforts.)

Dr. Greer was trying, in earnest, and his disclosure meetings with the US government in 2001 are real and on record. This guy is lead by his passion, not by something corrupt.




On Lazar - Some details of his accounts seem real enough. A concerted effort to "destroy" records of his life is a bit much to me. However, I looked heavily into the technological ideas behind the engine as described by Lazar.

His element 115 isotope claims could be true stuff. We have theorized an isotope of 115 that oddly matches some of his claims, but if he were well versed at the time, he may have been able to infer and articulate this information. ( He would have had to have a little bit of advanced chemical knowledge to make the stability claims, in the format that he did. )

We know from his rocket bicycle building hobby, Lazar would have had to study a bit of chemistry. So it is entirely possible Lazar made this informational contact in relation to his hobby, and not necessarily at a secret government laboratory.

On his secret government laboratory employment...

He did describe some very specific biometric security devices in use there, that recently have been revealed to be very accurate and match Lazar's claims from his early 90's interview.
If I recall correctly these devices would measure information involving your entire hand. The unique data piece was finger bone length, which is specific in individuals, and would be an effective biometric measure for that time period.

( He is somewhat likely to have been exposed to those devices, it is higher in likelihood that he had some type of employment at a government involved secure facility, than not. )

That point was brought up in Lazar's recent Joe Rogan interview.

As for my deep dive into the engine technical specifics. I find it unlikely to work as described by Lazar. However, the general shape, and some of the described details could be a working engine design. It would have a functionality a little ahead of Lazar's understanding and would be more likely to have involved very high energy beams being projected from that cone shape at specific angles. Not just a single element decay line in some type of catalytic loop. (Such that there would be generation of muon or pion particles.)

So, if Lazar is truthful, I would guess they didn't have a full picture, and their understanding was not complete and totally technically correct, at the time period.

Why would the FBI go to visit Lazar unless he was telling the truth?
That's right, they would not waste their time.
By visiting him they admitted that he was telling the truth.

The IRS already told us 20 years ago that Lazar was telling the truth because they took taxes out on him for working there. Just because the mil-gov changed the name of their business into something less noticeable does not mean it did not happen. They were just trying to cover their trail.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Have you read with Wilson documents? Perhaps Greer is not as big of a liar as he has been made out to be? The Wilson docs paint a picture that lines up very closely with what Greer has been saying for years now. That there is a highly classified, highly compartmentalized reverse engineering UFO program. It is above the purview of Congress and the President, and they answer to absolutely no one in the elected US Government. No oversight, no accountability. I think thats a pretty damn big deal.

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Creep Thumper
That's mostly why, I think, that he was on the show. To get more attention and hype for the documentary. I'll watch it soon. And thanks for the heads up. I was worried it would just be more fluff.

Lazar's story hasn't changed in 30 years. He's also kept a low profile that long, so there is no component of money or fame involved.

I believe him.

🖖🏻

a reply to: Falkner

Except Lazar and Greer are frauds.

originally posted by: Creep Thumper

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Creep Thumper
That's mostly why, I think, that he was on the show. To get more attention and hype for the documentary. I'll watch it soon. And thanks for the heads up. I was worried it would just be more fluff.

Lazar's story hasn't changed in 30 years. He's also kept a low profile that long, so there is no component of money or fame involved.

I believe him.

🖖🏻

I don't think going for interviews, having documentary films made about you, and being a speaker at UFO conferences is actually keeping a low profile.

a reply to: Maverick7

As for "we" I meant humans most likely are not alone. By mere probability, if there is life on earth there should be life elsewhere. The odds are in favor of further locations with life.

Regarding element 115, as I understand it has been created already, but not a stable isotope. The goal would be to find the theorized "island/valley of stability" for those heavier elements.

As for the prospects of having sci-fi stuff made into science fact, Alcubierre drive is theoretically feasible, although the power source required to bend spacetime is not (at the current stage of scientific development as it exists in the plublic domain).

The thing about Lazar's claims is that there are technologies outside public domain that, at least in 1989, could not be understood or replicated.

As for military secrets, they definitely exist. However, putting together leaked information from different public figures it is understood not even the military is getting access or oversight over such projects.

a reply to: Lysergic

I do think they both portray a part of the truth. We can never know true motivations behind and definitely Greer lives out of the publicity nowadays as opposed to Lazar (so far as it is known).

When you put the accounts of these 3 sources and few others together, they pretty much seem to tell part of the same story. I will nonetheless take it with a grain of salt...

Greer often claims he has been invited to brief several US presidents on the matter. I would very much like to have some evidence of that. For instance, appointment records, events attended together or something that without a doubt can attest for the opportunity of a conversation between Greer and POTUS.

It’s a real shame we don’t have a universally acceptable ufologist most can respect. With all due respect to the gentlemen mentioned in the op, unfortunately, these guys have big flaws in their programs and big flaws in their respective stories.

I guess it’s a commentary on human nature and the ego where people just have to exaggerate or lie or distort things and just can’t be simple and honest.



BTW, Has anyone contacted Wilson about this leak?

a reply to: Willtell

Apparently there is a 2008 reply (not confirmed) from Wilson stating he was never denied access to any classified information. devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com...

Unfortunately, I don't think we can use either the recent 15 pages documents or this report of denial as ultimate truthful sources - in one way or the other.

I do think, if true, these documents are in line with other accounts referring to very limited access to ultra secret projects, even by those with oversight responsibilities.

I believe we'll have to wait for some sort of sound confirmation.

a reply to: Willtell

a universally acceptable ufologist

What about Richard Dolan? Nick Pope?

I cant take anyone seriously who thinks Lazar is a fraud.

There are thousands of threads on this site, thousands of videos, etc. containing evidence to the contrary.

Lazar proved he knew what was going on in the facility. The guy also has an insanely high aptitude for engineering, rocketry, and electronics that his "official" background doesn't support.

If you come on here claiming Lazar is a fraud, it makes me think:
1. You're paid to be here to say those things.
2. You're a bot.
3. You are a religious fundamentalist that cannot have anything extraterrestrial be real for fear of it tearing down your current concept of religion.
4. Terrified of anything you dont know or understand

a reply to: TonyS

If we take Richard Dolan account, he confirms the authenticity of the Wilson docs.

The problem is that there is twice (or more) the amount of misinformation than authentic (truthful) information. I believe it would be necessary the study of extraterrestrial phenomena to be taken at university level and sponsored by credible education institutions for the advancement of science.

a reply to: TonyS

Nick Pope? Seriously?

Just have a look here

I don't think that he's very 'universally accepted'

He was only a 'Junior Desk Officer' in the MoD despite what he has said...

It was mainly a desk job that involved dealing with queries from the public and media.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Creep Thumper

originally posted by: Starhooker
a reply to: Creep Thumper
That's mostly why, I think, that he was on the show. To get more attention and hype for the documentary. I'll watch it soon. And thanks for the heads up. I was worried it would just be more fluff.

Lazar's story hasn't changed in 30 years. He's also kept a low profile that long, so there is no component of money or fame involved.

I believe him.

🖖🏻

I don't think going for interviews, having documentary films made about you, and being a speaker at UFO conferences is actually keeping a low profile.

In 1989 he described a hand scanner that was used for classified areas. Everyone thought he was full of s**t.

Thirty years later, in the docu, Corbell had a photo of that scanner.

I. Believe. Lazar.

a reply to: Creep Thumper

The most compeling argument in favor of Lazar is the background cleansing he was subject to and was actually disproved by the media. It was a lengthy effort someone took to simply dismiss a "liar".

I don't know whether the full story is true, specially regarding the sample of 115 he supposedly took as evidence and which is still missing.

originally posted by: Falkner
a reply to: Creep Thumper

The most compeling argument in favor of Lazar is the background cleansing he was subject to and was actually disproved by the media. It was a lengthy effort someone took to simply dismiss a "liar".

I don't know whether the full story is true, specially regarding the sample of 115 he supposedly took as evidence and which is still missing.

If he has it he will never admit it again. I think he's using it as insurance.