Joe Rogan, Lazar and Corbell on the JRE podcast(a new one)

originally posted by: Maverick7
Hi, since you say you know his story inside and out, can you recall where and when he talked about maybe being drugged?

He talked about having memory problems and needing to see a hypnotherapist.

Good Interview. Did anyone know there are patents out for a Gravity field distortion craft sponsored by the Secretary of the US Navy? They look a bit like Lazar's description of the engines and emitters.

The first time I heard about Bob being drugged was during an interview with John Lear. I do not recall who conducted the interview but I believe it was a Project Camelot interview. Lear is definitely a character who takes a story and spins it to greater heights. I don't think he fabricates information. But I do think he dresses it up to an unnecessary level to the point people don't believe him.

Then at some point Bob very briefly mentioned he thought perhaps he may have been drugged but wasn't sure.

Regarding the patent by the US Navy I posted that thread here on ATS. The deniers seemed to think anyone can apply for a patent and while that is very true what they don't know about the patent process is it is very, very, very expensive, and patents are only awarded if the idea is a unique improvement or an original idea with no prior art having preceded their claim. The uninformed think the patent office awards patents to anyone who make a claim and this is simply not the case. Not to mention it takes years to be awarded a patent. Especially one as complex as an anti-gravity propulsion craft. So the idea a person who is a contractor for the US Navy would feel it necessary to falsely manufacture a patent claim under the US Navy seems beyond absurd to believe. Let alone the patent examiners award one based on

a reply to: 1point92AU

Which parts of the story are fishy and where are these details - two books out of many:
You asked name which parts of Bob's story are fishy. There is a whole chapter in a book about which parts, called 'Area 51: The Dreamland Chronicles' by Dan Darlington which gives elements.

There is Stanton Friedman's book which lists several problems with the claim that the G-mint deleted his MIT and Cal Tech records.

Details about where he worked
There is information that he may have worked for KM a subsidiary or contractor with EG&G doing some computer work.

Details about the polygraphs
Little things some say, for example the four lie detector tests - he passed two and failed two, but the legend is he passed them all. (see Darlington’s book for this)

Why does he sound believable?
His story is relatively unchanging. He is not trying to make money. He shuns publicity. He gives reasonable (to a layman) and fluent answers to all of the questions about the part he worked on. He doesn't show the usual tells of deceptive people and he doesn't show the signs of being sociopathic and lacking those signs.

What is a compelling motive and sequence of events:
However, the biggest motive for him making a story and sticking with a story and having a consistent story in my opinion could very well stem with his association with John Lear.

A Pet Theory - The John Lear Angle:
A pet theory is that John Lear and Lazar, who were great friends back in the day, often sat around and talked about things. There was some buzz back in the early 90s that John Lear and Bob Lazar were heard to talk about making up a story but I can’t tell you where I heard or read this. John Lear was none for floating outrageous theories and saying he had proof and being able to pull something out of a stack of papers or tell a story which was compelling.

It is POSSIBLE that Lear eventually convinced Bob Lazar to help him put together a convincing story of back engineering a craft with all the requisite twists and turns, adding what 'insider information' that Lear had and some physics type information that Bob knew about from his hobbies to make this story. In this pet theory, they worked it up and polished it JUST FOR FUN at the time. Both Lazar and Lear knew about the place to view Area 51 (before the land grab).

Now let's say that Lear, whom Bob Lazar thought was a complete nut at times, but still funny as heck and a friend, figured out a way to "convince" Bob Lazar there was real testing, there were real secrets and then he appealed to Lazar's sense of right and wrong with regard to not hiding important and revolutionary material from the World and the Scientific Community, and then Lazar got both excited and upset and decided they'd put out this story, which they had been talking about for months or more to get the gubmint to react.

An underlying compelling motive to keep telling the story and maybe start to believe it
So the if the underlying motive for Bob Lazar to stick to this story is a kind of scientific moral outrage, then that could be enough for him to stick to it and do so faithfully.

Again, just one pet theory which takes some things into account and doesn't rely on Bob completely lying, shows how he could have a consistent story and shows some of the 'wacky aspects' of a John Lear tale, but maybe just enough to give an aura of truth.

Another Pet Theory
The only other pet theory would be he was duped by some parties at Area 51 and was given something and hypnosis was used and he saw a 'flight' which was faked or implanted, to account for a LACK of sinister motive yet a consistency and plausibility of his theory of the reactor.

Some parts I found inconsistent:
1. He says there's a story at the site that they tried to open up a reactor part and it blew up in a manner like an atomic blast.
Yet he says they had parts of the reactor taken apart on their work bench and he saw it disassembled. If you can't open it without a catastrophic result, how is it able to be disassembled for him to look at?

2. He says the briefing documents showed pictures of an autopsy of a creature, comments about them being from the Zeta-Reticulae binary star system, and other aspects about it being an ET craft. However he also says the work was highly compartmentalized. What would be the point of putting in ET pics in a briefing document for a propulsion and power operation compartmentalized crew? That smacks of John Lear-ism added elements. So that's fishy. In addition how would anyone on Earth know where they came from? Again John Lear knew about the Betty and Barney Hill incident and Marjorie Fish did a star map and named that system. Fishy.

3. It's fishy that he said he removed a sample of the 500 pounds of Element 115, and that he'd be allowed to handle, be given a sample and spirit out that sample from this super highly classified area, and then have it 'stolen'. How would he know or how would anyone be in a position to know the amount they had at the facility or in toto? Again, that's kind of an exaggeration and smacks of John Lear's tendencies. He had wacky ideas and some were not internally consistent.

4. Would a true scientist and experimental genius really have as one of his first motives other than staying there to work on the most fascinating thing possible to run and tell his wacky UFO buddies? That's fishy.

Compelling and convincing liars historically exist.
Have there been super good story tellers in the past that fooled a lot of people and showed competency?

Finally it's not unknown that a person could have a very compelling story, not change details and seem to totally believe what they're saying. Catch Me If You Can - the movie about Frank Abignale with Leonardo DiCaprio was one example.

Most people who look into it agree he does not look to lack 'tells' and has genuine emotions and he seems to believe his story. The hypno-therapist allegedly says he believes it in his own mind.

What should we conclude - basically not much besides trying to understand the phenomenon
Should we go out and try to construct such a device as he describes if we totally believe that? Should we be broad casting communications to a 39 LY distant system to try and make friends? Does his story count as evidence of ET visitation. I would say NO.

A far more plausible reality
It's far more plausible that the military has craft which can do certain things or give impressions of defying physics and their motives are to fool their enemies into being afraid they have ET technology.
FWIW.

a reply to: 1point92AU

How could he come up with a unique name like Mike Thigpen if the man wasn't real to begin with?

eating a chiken thigh and writing a letter while "Be Like Mike" Gatorade commercial was playing in the background?

I don't have any evidence to back this up but that's how i would do it.

a reply to: 1point92AU

Like I asked you before. Name the parts of the story you consider "fishy". My point is pretty simple. The entire story itself is 100% completely unproveable and we have to choose to either believe or disbelieve. A person can't say the believe part of the story and not another part. That's a complete contradiction, again, because the entire story is unprovable. Do you understand how an argument works? In order for a premise to be true i.e. all of the supporting facts must also be true. If any of the supporting facts are untrue then the premise will always be untrue.

I stated in my reply the parts that seem the most fishy, his educational history and lack of any proof of his history at places like MIT for a start, Someone would remember him, colleagues or professors but no-one has ever come forward.
A person can believe part of his story, and not others if they wish. For example, we all know Area 51 is real but did he work there or know someone who did, and is talking/acting on there behalf perhaps, did he work in the canteen and then claim he was a physicist?
I think it's you who doesn't understand how an argument works?

Not sure why you are quoting Wikipedia on COINTELPRO. Like I stated if this was a COINTELPRO op it is the absolute dumbest one in history. Again, name something more highly classified than alien tech.

I quoted wiki in case you didn't understand what COINTELPRO was, also if it's the dumbest one in history you may want to read up about the Aviary, and their shenanigans over the years, and what they are linked too. Bob's story very much reminds me of stories like Serpo. One man comes forward because the world needs to know what's going on type of thing! By fooling people into believing the US has alien craft, that little lie can used for all kinds of counter intelligence or other types of programmes or intelligence propaganda.

Finally, your tenure in any particular subject means nothing when you use flawed logic. It just means you've been using flawed logic for 40 years.

My logic isn't flawed, it just means that with experience I won't blindly believe, and follow Bobs story like you seem to have done.
And remember, the best lies will have an element of truth.

a reply to: Kurokage

Well Bob does state that he didn’t have a conventional shift.
He worked when he got the phone call to come to work.
Sent back home on JANET when “Barry” or superiors felt he did enough.

I’ve always believed Bobs story.
I do not put it past the Government to delete his entire existence and make life difficult for those around him.
With the revelations that are coming to light fairly consecutively, I’d say all the new info is proving Bobs tale even more true.

On the post about 'things that were fishy sounding by Lazar'

"I had Majestic Clearance, which is 38 levels above Q clearance which is the highest top secret clearance for Civilians"

(from a 90s interview).

First of all we now know that there was no 'Majestic' designation in the 80s and 90s, that's another 'Lazar-John Lear concoction 'tell', throwing in a buzzword', and Q clearance is a top secret clearance for Atomic Reactors and so forth it's not a special thing beyond the Military's top secret classification. It's just atomic energy related for civilians.

Second, people with classifications don't know their 'standing' and aren't told 'Oh wow man you got MAJ Clearance- here's the hand-out, see it's 38 levels above Q!'.

Is it impossible for him to know how many levels - uh, who knows but it's not the norm.

HTH

a reply to: Maverick7

TL;DR

Have you developed any of your own opinions or are you just gonna' copy and paste what others have written?

a reply to: Kurokage

I agree there are holes Lazar has not qualified such as the education. However, are you saying if he could qualify his education then you would believe the majority or all of the story?

I mean candidly the part that would jump out to me as "fishy" is the claim of working on reverse engineering alien propulsion systems. Not educational history. But to each their own.

originally posted by: whatsecret
a reply to: 1point92AU

How could he come up with a unique name like Mike Thigpen if the man wasn't real to begin with?

eating a chiken thigh and writing a letter while "Be Like Mike" Gatorade commercial was playing in the background?

I don't have any evidence to back this up but that's how i would do it.

Possible but then how does a specific person like Mike Thigpen actually exist in the stated capacity if he's nothing more than a phantom?

originally posted by: 1point92AU
a reply to: Maverick7

TL;DR

Have you developed any of your own opinions or are you just gonna' copy and paste what others have written?

You asked what people found 'fishy'. I listed some things that sound fishy and to avoid it being a wall of text I put in bolded headers.

Yes I have two ideas of my own, but it seems wasted on you.

Huff said one time when Lazar thought he base security was 'coming for him' he told Gene Huff that he put one of the pieces of Element 115 in his 'particle accelerator' and if they showed up with bad intent he was going to 'turn it on' and they might tell LA goodby because it would be a bad even.

We all know that you can't have a 'box' with lights and wires in a lab and have it be a particle accelerator. Now Gene Huff said this on an interview so did Bob say it? Did Gene hear the name of the 'device wrong'. It doesn't matter much but it sounds as though a lot of loose talk was happening in their little group. It's fishy.

The other thing is the name of the star system and what that star system is comprised of. I'd go into it but you don't really seem to want to know. You ask for 'fishy' and you get it and you don't want to read it. Why, I don't know.

HTH

a reply to: Maverick7

You didn't list anything. You copied opinions from another source. All of which have no alternative explanation other than that source inferring, "because I don't believe him".

The irony with stories like Lazar's and a multitude of others is the deniers can never provide an alternative explanation and back it with facts.

Until then Lazar's story will always and forever remain an unprovable story. The irony is how deniers expect their factless opinions to be taken as "the real truth" versus those who choose to believe.

The irony of the hypocrisy.

a reply to: Macenroe82

Well Bob does state that he didn’t have a conventional shift.
He worked when he got the phone call to come to work.

I’ve always believed Bobs story.
I do not put it past the Government to delete his entire existence and make life difficult for those around him.

If he had no shift and worked when he got "a call", making him "on call" would mean he'd probably earn more than an average shift.

It's the fact that nobody has come forward that shared a class or was a professor of Lazar. You might be able to wipe someone's work or college history but how do you wipe work colleagues or class mates minds?

originally posted by: 1point92AU
a reply to: Kurokage
I agree there are holes Lazar has not qualified such as the education. However, are you saying if he could qualify his education then you would believe the majority or all of the story?

I mean candidly the part that would jump out to me as "fishy" is the claim of working on reverse engineering alien propulsion systems. Not educational history. But to each their own.

At least we both agree on holes in Lazar's story.

If you have a fantastic story to tell and the basic mundane parts of the tail are fishy before even the fantastic bits, how are you going to feel about the fantastic bits of that tail? How are you meant to believe the fantastic bits that follow?
The reverse engineering parts are fantastical but thats a given, if his bland work history is hard to swallow, how are we meant to believe the rest of his story?
I DO want to believe Bobs story, I really do, but just like the Serpo story, the more you read or re-read, the more holes appear, and a "spider sense" tingle goes off that makes think something is off or not quite right.

originally posted by: starfoxxx
OP did you see the doc on netflix??? I just watched the documentary Bob Lazar and Area 51 on netflix.. George Knapp for some reason was taped in a inside pool. The echo was ridiculous but i love Knapp he looks great for his age and he always seems credible.. The doc was mostly old interviews of Lazar and then him basically explaining the whole thing he said on Rogan. There was video he and his buddies taped of S4 a couple miles from groom lake.. Old 80's technology.. Overall, if you are ANY kind of 'what is out there' enthusiasts its a fun hour and half... Very well put together ect. If you do not have netflix this interview is basically all you need to know and you can find his UFO S4 video on youtube as well..

yea i saw the netflix docus, in fact i've seen all of corbels work that is published and have heard all the interviews i can find with Bob in them.

Knapp is a good reporter and i think he saw a gravy train with Bob.

When i was first getting into ufology i looked up to him as one of the more truthful people, now i think he has been used by the powers that be unwillingly and then maybe willingly went along with people like Bigalow and Col. Alexander to see what he could get out of them.

as far as Bob i think he saw something that he couldnt explain and played right into the air forces hand, and then the AF did things to scare him furthering the belief what he saw was real tech from another world.

He talks about his time being there as so compartmentalized that they couldnt even talk to their work partner then why did they show him all the medical info and other stuff when the first took him in, it makes no sense unless they knew he was going to spill the beans.

ironically when he said he thought the 'sports model' with the US flag on it was ours was more than likely the case.


and for people who say why would they have people trying to reverse engineer it, imagine one of these crashed in Soviet Russia(it was still around than) maybe the US wanted to see if someone found one of these things they wouldn't be able to figure it out.

or more realistically it was all part if the deception game they were playing with bob. They were clearly tapping Bob's phone and more than likely the people he was in communication with like Lear and the other guy so they knew exactly what they wanted to see to prove ufos were ET and the AF gave it to them. But let's say it WAS a real ET craft they would have had all sort of surveillance on anyone who worked with it. The second they knew Bob was telling people all about this stuff they would have loved him and possibly the people he told up and clearly that didn't happen.

if the government didn't want this story out, it would have never gotten out.

other than the size of the seats there was no reason to believe humans couldnt have made what he saw. He even said you could stand up all the way in the middle of the craft, to me that sounds like a single seat aircraft or maybe an unmanned cargo drone.

the only reason he claims what he saw was ET is the documents the AF showed him.

and on a side not he says the reason he got the job was the person he was replacing was killed when they cut open the running reactor.

Bob himself said that the government used kid gloves when flying and testing this thing as it was irreplaceable, so why would they cut a reactor open when they knew they couldnt replace it? he said it was running when they did this but he also said when it was running it had a field around it where you couldnt even touch it with your hand because it was repelled by whatever field the reactor created.

how did they get a saw past the field?

if the reactor blew up to the point of the US having to say it was an unannounced underground nuke test i would imagine the reactor would have been destroyed or rendered inoperative and even if it wasnt how would they repair it? and why would they allow a test on the reactor that would by nature of the test damage it when they apparently according to bob couldnt repair it or get another one.

he himself said he had no idea what it was made out of and how it was made. a reactor that broke the laws of thermodynamics would have alot going on inside of it and the surface that absorbed the heat would be so exotic that to cut it apart would be crazy.


bob seems to be a pretty smart guy but never questioned that part of the story? it makes zero sense


personally i think the real ufos are so far beyond what we can even comprehend that all we can do is describe what they look like and the effects around them, not what they are and how they work and effect the space around it. something like the pascagoula river ufo sounds like a real et/interdimensional encounter might be. ships of light and the inside being way bigger than the outside and everything made of light with obviously non human or humanoid occupants.

Bobs sports model sounds like something humans made, and they just feede bob a load of bs about 115 being the power source, it might have been some sort of nuclear fuel but 115 is just not feasible as a fuel because by the time you walked it over to the ship it would all be gone and you would be irradiated. And that's not even getting into the impossible claim of 100% conversion of heat to energy the reactor claims, that just can't happen, entropy is just a fact of life it would be literal magic if ANYTHING could be 100% efficient.

the way bob described the reactor means that the reactor vessel would have all sorts of nano and quantum parts that again any scientist would never allow to be destroyed in a test just toi see what was going on inside of it.

and where would all the extra energy be stored from this magic reactor? the way bob described the sports odle there were no energy storage devices, that means the craft would have to dump- so much waste energy that it would be glowing so hot and bright you would be able to get near it. or are we to believe that the reactor we have no idea who it works or runs we figured out how to control like the ets? in reality the first time we turned something like that on and didnt know how it worked or how to shunt unused energy away the craft would essential act like a huge bomb.

It always seemed curious why Lazar wouldnt want to sit and talk shop about this revolutionary, out this world, science with other scientists. I suspect if he got questioned by other physicists, he'd get exposed.

@1point92AU

Mike Thigpen was not in hiding and recently found, despite the spin. Knapp spoke to him and according to Bob, Thigpen was present at all his court dates, oddly, although they didnt speak. Thigpen did not say he interviewed Bob for clearance, he said he was probably there in connection to Jim Tagliani’s clearance. This is consistent with Bob’s own recollection, that Thigpen only asked questions about Jim’s reported odd behavior while living with Bob. Also Bob said Jim was waiting for Q clearance while Bob was suddenly awarded the MAJ.

Here's a pretty good Youtube which gives a breakdown in a concise manner, and adds some things we haven't mentioned here.


As I said, sometimes a person telling a story has a 'tell' or an 'oops' when they put in a little bit of UFO lore, a sprinkling of buzzwords.

For the Lazar story, I think the biggest 'oops' were these in my opinion:
1. The briefing document showing a Whitley Strieber type ET. Why have that in there. It's just pushing the ET Hypothesis too hard.

2. Saying they came from Zeta-Reticulae - this is somewhat falsifiable in that we can research the type of system Z-R is. We can look at 'metallicity' needed for high tech, rocky planets and the stability on a cosmic time scale of the solar system planets. We can look at the type of star. Has to pretty much be Population I (high metallicity for trace elements)

3. Using a classic UFO shape. Again pushing a John Lear type 'agenda' - 'they're here!'.

4. Having a test where the gravity wave guide, emitters and inertial reactor be 'turned on' inside the atmosphere and near the surface. That would make any physicist go 'Oh No!' you can't 'warp space time' and risk ripping the fabric of space-time, or something like that. A gravity wave propulsion craft would use that power system only to transit from planet to planet - the 39 light years. They'd probably have a different system if they were going to fly inside a planet's atmosphere or close to the planet.

There are a few others but you get the idea. So look for classic UFO lore - something that his 'buddy' John Lear would have been just too tempted to 'add in'. Secret base stuff, buzzwords, thing from other tales like the Betty and Barney Hill Incident which had Marjory Fish proposing Zeta-Reticulae.

Further, there's a youtube out there that talks about Jerry Freeman who traveled to S-4 and looked for hanger doors and there were people from Green Peace out there at Papoose Lake looking and protesting.

Jerry Freeman

In all of these concerns there are two ways to look at them. Were the briefing papers accurate or a psy-op ploy? Maybe the next Bob Lazar was told they're from the Pleiades?

Maybe Jerry Freeman didn't look in the right place?

The video where I found (or found again, lol) that touches all the salient high points and says 'there's evidence then there's doubt of the evidence of fakery'.

You have to make up your own mind. HTH

a reply to: penroc3

that joe interview was really good. Got motivated to watch the Netflix Bob lazar Corbell film. Yikes that was one of the worst unwatchable film ever!!!!. Couldn't make it past 15 minutes and had to shut it off which is very unlike for me once I start a film.

I remember seeing a review of the Bob lazar Corbell film here on ATS but can't find the thread now? awful awful film. I think a youtuber with a robot voice make over could have done a better job presenting the story of Bob Lazar.

a reply to: interupt42

i watched the JRE Bob L interview the day it came out.

don't get me wrong i think bob saw SOMETHING and was used by AFOSI and others to validate the story of the grays and abductions and ufos.

i think Paul Benowitz was the failed version of what they did with bob.


i have ONE question for Bob and Corbel, If the reactor creates a such a field that you cant even touch it when it is running, than how did they get a saw blade past that field?

Bobs story for him being at S4 was that the people he replaced died when they cut open a RUNNING reactor......HOW did they get past the impenetrable field around the reactor that by his own account is always there when running.

also why would they even need to cut it open in the first place, in the model he shows people that he claims is EXACTLY how it looked, the freaking top came off. just run the tests when its open and not running, even with our simple human nuclear reactors it would be pointless to cut into when running(and deadly).


they could dismantle the reactor when it wasn't running and figure out everything they needed to know with out cutting it open when running.



if we cut open a normal reactor all that you would see is the rods and coolant, and you can see that with out it being powered on.

how did they figure out how to turn the reactor and all the systems it would need to run, i assume it wasnt in english

as far as the 115 thing the fact he NEVER mentioned isomers as an explanation for how it could have a longer or more stable half life says all i need to know.

and as far as him having a piece of it, even if it was some nuclear isomer of 115 it would have all decayed by now.

I believe Bob BELIEVES what he is saying but that doesnt make what hes saying true.



if you take away the military supplied documents and the small chairs that could have been put in there by anyone, what makes what he saw alien?

there is nothing in what he says he saw in the hanger that couldnt be built by humans. The documents that he was shown about where the ets come from and all the other non technical info would have not been shown to him because it would have less than ZERO relevance to his work. aka he didnt have a need to know




so i would ask him how and why they cut open a reaction vessel they could just open when it was unpowered(how did they know how to turn it on in the first place) and how they got a saw blade past the generated field and why ANYONE was in the same room when that happened? at the very least any reasonable scientist would insist on the test being done remotely(and that is easy to do). were they just standing over the reactor with and saws-all and got blasted in the face??? and if he was working on the same reactor how was it repaired?

bob said that the reactor converts heat into energy perfectly(magical thermocouple), if an explosion happened would the magic thermocouple just absorb that heat energy there for no explosion?


how did they figure out how to turn the reactor on? he said they had a gravity amplifier and waveguide separated from the craft so we can assume they did every sort of test they could on it, we can assume the inside of the waveguide would have to be some form of a meta material to be able to act as a gravity waveguide, what frequency and energy levels do the amplifiers work on? is it a DC or AC power source.

he said the reactor could power a small town, if the craft wasnt is use where would all the extra energy be stored? if it was just being dumped it would be so radioactive and hot not to mention the other EM interference and propagation his story of being at a test flight were he watched it from a short distance away makes zero sense. there was ZERO mention of any sort of capacitor or equivalent energy storage device.

he also said there were no physical power connections.

there would be so much energy not being used and directed around that ship it would require some sort of super power management system to the amplifiers and reactor. the idea it just put off what must be 1000 apon 1000's of megawatts as some wireless power system is just laughable.

if all of a sudden gravity amplifier 3 needed more power instantly it would create essentially a multi 1000 megawatt beam inside the ship, and just the side reactions of such a high power beam would irradiate everything in the ship.


he claims these craft fly by manipulating local spacetime and when he said that there weren't any ways to test what he was saying but now we have LIGO and other similar experiments and NONE of them pick up massive bendings in spacetime so either the ships are not coming anymore or that's not how they fly.

even if the ship is in its own gravity bubble it would perturb our spacetime enough for LIGO to pick up the disturbance.


how none of these thing are ever asked is beyond me..

a reply to: penroc3

clearly people at ATS can get ahold of him, i would give him 1000$ to have a private unrecorded 10 min conversation.

if he didnt want the cash he could donate it and i would sign a NDA so that whatever we said would stay a secret forever, i just want to know some serious scientific answers to my questions so if anyone here can make that happen i would even go as high as 5000