It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Trying to resolve 9/11

page: 81
17
<< 78  79  80    82  83  84 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 12:29 PM
link   
a reply to: neutronflux

I believe Dr. Harrit explained this Fig. 14 issue in his presentation, mentioning the debunkers.

Here at 30mins in(direct link):

The Toronto Hearings on 9/11 Uncut - Niels Harrit (Full Presentation)




posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 12:56 PM
link   
a reply to: Hulseyreport

Maybe Harrit / Jones should have heated their MEK

Chemical Product
Methyl Ethyl Ketone

Epoxy Resistance to Chemical Product
Fair (temperature < 72oF, 22oC)

www.google.com...



So. Epoxy does have some resistance to MEK and does show that MEK might only cause swelling.

You


Dr Millete never presented a DSC test so his work is unfinished plus he published nothing significant after he asserted there was no Elemental Aluminum.


He worked for a forensic lab. You think a peer review paper is created for every DNA test. That is why the Jones / Harrit play is such a joke. Any certified forensic lab has the established procedures to test for thermite. Harrit / Jones never had any intention of having their samples released for verification. That is why their paper is a joke. They always intended to control the fabricated narrative for their target audience.


You


Red/gray chips explains why there were gaps, cracks, fractures in the steel that FEMA found.


No it doesn’t. You claim super thermite? That has no proof? And never been verified? And that it was used as an explosive? There is no evidence from the video, audio, seismic evidence of detonations or generated pressure waves with the force to damage WTC steel. Sorry.

You



It's a valid explanation why enormous amounts of Iron molten Microspheres are found in dust powder samples often gathered up far away from where workers started cutting the steel in the cleaning up process..
.

Sorry. It doesn’t.

Creating iron microspheres is not limited to or exclusive to thermite.

Sorry.



By MickWest
www.metabunk.org/making-iron-microspheres-grinding-impacts-welding-burning.t9533/

www.metabunk.org...

Burning Methods (external ignition)

Burning Paint Chips #1. www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #1: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings #1: www.metabunk.org...
Toner: www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #2: www.metabunk.org...
Burning Paint Chips #2: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Powder 320 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings 50 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
*Pyrophoric iron: www.metabunk.org...

Sparking methods (Spark from solid objects

Steel on steel impact. www.metabunk.org...
Angle Grinder: www.metabunk.org...
Bic Lighter: www.metabunk.org...
Flint Striker: www.metabunk.org...
Rust on aluminum impact: www.metabunk.org...
1600's Flint: www.metabunk.org...

Melting Methods (External Energy/Heat Melts)

Arc Welding #1 (Magnet capture): www.metabunk.org...
Arc Welding #2 (Water capture): www.metabunk.org...
Thermite (Al + Fe2O3): www.metabunk.org...
*Oxy cutting
*Thermal lance cutting


* = Methods I've not personally tried


You


It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust.


How? If it was super thermite like your pushing, it would act like an explosive. It would consume itself during detonation. There would be nothing left to heat the pile. It would not make molten steel. I like how you want nano thermite to act like nano thermite except when you want it to make molten steel like regular thermite. Make up your mind. In your fantasy. Was it nano thermite used as an explosive. Or thermite used as a cutting charge.

Thermite? Same. It would consume itself in minutes. The pile was sprayed with water to control smoldering and flame ups. Molten steel creates violent steam explosions when hit with water. There were no large pools of frozen metal remove during clean up. The equipment could not remove steel “burning” thermite. I don’t think water stops a thermite reaction.

And there is no visible molten metal on the columns of the twin towers during collapse. The columns can be clearly seen still standing after the complete collapse of the floor systems.


No molten metal on the still standing columns. No visible burning thermite.

You



It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust. To people on the ground it would just appear to be small red fragments of debris.


One. Dust wouldn’t be enough to keep 500,000 tons of ruble hot. Two. It doesn’t need oxygen to support its self sustaining reaction. No reason for it to stop once stated. All the thermite should have been consumed on detonation. Special if you are claiming it was used as an explosive. Three. If there was dust. It would take something like a magnesium igniter burning at 4000 F to ignite thermite dust.

You


yellow liquid spilling out of the towers


False argument. You mean one corner of one tower. You mean a mixture of burning plastic, lead, and copper from the location of a battery room.

With no visible cutting of any columns.



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

I believe Dr. Harrit explained this Fig. 14 issue in his presentation, mentioning the debunkers.

Here at 30mins in(direct link):

The Toronto Hearings on 9/11 Uncut - Niels Harrit (Full Presentation)


Explained what? Care to cite how MEK that is “ used in surface coatings, adhesives, printing inks, chemical intermediates, magnetic tapes and lube oil dewaxing agents” would migrate a metal and silica?

www.americanchemistry.com...

Wouldn’t be the first smoke and mirror trick by Harrit.

Again




By Oystein

They claim to have found elemental Aluminium, one key ingredient to thermite, in a fifth chip. However, this fifth chip is of a different material than the four others, as is proven by their own data presented in figures 6 and 14. They did NOT dind free aluminium in any of the material that they igited and claimed to be or contain thermite

Snip

They compared the exothermic behaviour of their 4 ignition samples with that of real (nano-?) thermite found in literature, and claimed that the graphs are very similar. They are not: Compare figure 19 with figure 29 and note how the position of the peak differs significantly both on the X-axis (by more than 100°C) and the Y-axis (by a factor of 2 to 4.5). This result proves that their samples are not the kind of thermite known to science. (Note too how in figure 29 they only repeat the lowest of the 4 peaks from fig. 19 to make it not quite so apparent that their samples released waaay too much energy/power.)

www.internationalskeptics.com...



The thermite debacle of Harrit / Jones only hurts their credibility until they release their dust samples for I dependent analysis.

I hope you would agree on that much....
edit on 23-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:07 PM
link   
I sick of carrying on explaining it for you. 
You have no indication what you speaking about.
You random posting from other people work and struggling to pretend you understand it.
Even a quick look at Mick experiments you can see his using a butane torch. He using extreme temp torch. He experiments are baseless.
He doesn't even allude to the temp he burned the paint chip at. Its a sleight of hand that i seen. It likely elemental Iron he heating up- not paint. Ordinary paint would not make Iron spheres ( its common sense)
Iron Molten Microspheres will only present after extreme heat is applied to Iron and Steel.
With Steel Wool- same Iron content.
Debunkers will believe of course he producing Iron Microspheres from burning paint lol
Shut up about the Oxygen- what you even on about. You only produce Iron Microspheres from Heat as its Molten Iron. 
Nothing ignited- what you think appeared in the pictures provided and  videos produced by two posters?
What stuff? What you even struggling to attempt to say there? You randonly posting things that have nothing to do with the red/gray chips and chemical composition found.. 
Rest of your post is juust nonsense and boring have to explain to you every day. 
Provide me demonstrate the Mclede paint ignites at 430c, ( white hot flame above 1500c occurs, and then Iron Microsphreres are presented? Until then you rambles are that of foolish man who can face up to fact the red/gray chips are nanothermite. I have know interest until the debunker shows beyond all dout the McClede paint matches the red/gray chips. 



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:15 PM
link   
a reply to: democracydemo

I guess MEK is used to make magnetic data tape. You might cite the process, and if MEK impacts the magnetic oxides in any way?



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Hulseyreport

I think this is your list...

You



That false also - independents have analysed the chips and affirmed there was thermite materials embedded in the skin of the chips.


Still waiting on you to cite, quote, and link to those independent sources? Or do you admit that is a blatant falsehood?

So Harrit’s / Jones research is junk. Nobody can reproduce their results.

You again


Debunkers claim it paint chips based on nothing but opinion.


Another blatantly false argument by you



Analysis of Red/Gray Chips in WTC Dust

Dr. James Millette
MVA Scientific Consultants
www.MVAinc.com

February 20-25 2012
American Academy of Forensic Science
www.AAFS.org
2012 Annual Meeting
Atlanta, Georgia
www.mvainc.com...

Conclusions

The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.


Let’s see? The results of a professional lab with certifications they would lose if they messed something up. Along with money and business.


You


Red/gray chips explains why there were gaps, cracks, fractures in the steel that FEMA found.


No it doesn’t. You claim super thermite? That has no proof? And never been verified? And that it was used as an explosive? There is no evidence from the video, audio, seismic evidence of detonations or generated pressure waves with the force to damage WTC steel. Sorry.

You



It's a valid explanation why enormous amounts of Iron molten Microspheres are found in dust powder samples often gathered up far away from where workers started cutting the steel in the cleaning up process..
.

Sorry. It doesn’t.

Creating iron microspheres is not limited to or exclusive to thermite.

Sorry.



By MickWest
www.metabunk.org/making-iron-microspheres-grinding-impacts-welding-burning.t9533/

www.metabunk.org...

Burning Methods (external ignition)

Burning Paint Chips #1. www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #1: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings #1: www.metabunk.org...
Toner: www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #2: www.metabunk.org...
Burning Paint Chips #2: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Powder 320 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings 50 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
*Pyrophoric iron: www.metabunk.org...

Sparking methods (Spark from solid objects

Steel on steel impact. www.metabunk.org...
Angle Grinder: www.metabunk.org...
Bic Lighter: www.metabunk.org...
Flint Striker: www.metabunk.org...
Rust on aluminum impact: www.metabunk.org...
1600's Flint: www.metabunk.org...

Melting Methods (External Energy/Heat Melts)

Arc Welding #1 (Magnet capture): www.metabunk.org...
Arc Welding #2 (Water capture): www.metabunk.org...
Thermite (Al + Fe2O3): www.metabunk.org...
*Oxy cutting
*Thermal lance cutting


* = Methods I've not personally tried


You


It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust.


How? If it was super thermite like your pushing, it would act like an explosive. It would consume itself during detonation. There would be nothing left to heat the pile. It would not make molten steel. I like how you want nano thermite to act like nano thermite except when you want it to make molten steel like regular thermite. Make up your mind. In your fantasy. Was it nano thermite used as an explosive. Or thermite used as a cutting charge.

Thermite? Same. It would consume itself in minutes. The pile was sprayed with water to control smoldering and flame ups. Molten steel creates violent steam explosions when hit with water. There were no large pools of frozen metal remove during clean up. The equipment could not remove steel “burning” thermite. I don’t think water stops a thermite reaction.

And there is no visible molten metal on the columns of the twin towers during collapse. The columns can be clearly seen still standing after the complete collapse of the floor systems.


No molten metal on the still standing columns. No visible burning thermite.

You



It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust. To people on the ground it would just appear to be small red fragments of debris.


One. Dust wouldn’t be enough to keep 500,000 tons of ruble hot. Two. It doesn’t need oxygen to support its self sustaining reaction. No reason for it to stop once started All the thermite should have been consumed on detonation. Special if you are claiming it was used as an explosive. Three. If there was dust. It would take something like a magnesium igniter burning at 4000 F to ignite thermite dust.

You


yellow liquid spilling out of the towers


False argument. You mean one corner of one tower. You mean a mixture of burning plastic, lead, and copper from the location of a battery room.

With no visible cutting of any columns.
edit on 23-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed

edit on 23-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:42 PM
link   
a reply to: neutronflux

Sure thing, i shall get right to IT.



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:44 PM
link   
a reply to: neutronflux




The thermite debacle of Harrit / Jones only hurts their credibility until they release their dust samples for I dependent analysis.

I hope you would agree on that much....


I would and do. Has anyone asked them to do this?



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 01:54 PM
link   
a reply to: democracydemo

Why wouldn’t they want to complete a “scientific” paper as what is considered normal? And part of the process is submitting to independent verification.


I would think Steven Jones would be particularly sensitive to the matter?

Especially after the below incident...




Muon-catalyzed fusion Edit
In the mid-1980s, Jones and other BYU scientists worked on what he referred to as Cold Nuclear Fusion in a Scientific American article (the process is currently known as muon-catalyzed fusion to avoid confusion with the cold fusion concept proposed by the University of Utah's Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann). Muon-catalyzed fusion was a field of some interest during the 1980s as a potential energy source; however, its low energy output appears to be unavoidable (because of alpha-muon sticking losses). Jones led a research team that, in 1986, achieved 150 fusions per muon (average), releasing over 2,600 MeV of fusion energy per muon, a record which still stands.[14]

Pons and Fleischmann commenced their work at approximately the same time. Jones became aware of their work when they applied for research funding from the DOE, after which the DOE forwarded their proposal to Jones for peer review. When Jones realized that their work was similar, he and Pons and Fleischmann agreed to release their papers to Nature on the same day (March 24, 1989). However, Pons and Fleischmann announced their results at a press event the day before Jones faxed his paper to Nature.[15]

A New York Times article says that although peer reviewers were harshly critical of Pons' and Fleischmann's research, they did not apply such criticism to Jones' significantly more modest, theoretically supported findings. Although critics insisted that Jones' results were probably caused by experimental error,[16] the majority of the reviewing physicists claimed that he was a careful scientist. Later research and experiments have supported Jones' metallic "cold fusion" (geo-fusion) reports.[17]

In July 2013, Jones gave a poster talk at the 18th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science at the University of Missouri, titled, "Empirical Evidence for Two Distinct Effects: Low-level d-d Fusion in Metals and Anomalous Excess Heat."[18]

en.m.wikipedia.org...




I do understand the concerns Jones would have. But at the same time, I would think he would want every step of the paper transparent. I think a lab in France would have been sufficient.



posted on Nov, 23 2019 @ 02:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: GBP/JPY

Naw, no need to figure it exactly,....we live a world with a group of fallen angels....fighting to win the Devil's Bargain

Btw.......big mistake

Can we talk em out of being in rebuke.....tell em they're our brothers.....give it up already


911......sorsery........What Scripture says


First of all, I find it offensive that ATS and the powers that be censor anything. That is BS... you see it everywhere now, utoob, the fcbook, twit, everywhere... especially if you say anything Biblical or Christian or even pro Trump.. I think it is shameful that people here are censoring anything. Once upon a time this place was all about your right to free speech and your belief's... Sorry, any censorship is BS.

As a Veteran, and one who worked DOD contracts and helped train our commander's and soldier's today I have to be a little offended by the comment's against the military. Fact is, 9/11 had nothing to do with the military, zip, none... you see, the military is your father, your brother, sister, etc etc.. we are not some elite alaguard and we don't kill our own citizen's despite what people say here... now you want to talk CIA and NSA, different story all together lol.

But, i will throw out something we, the military do take part in and even train for, false flags... here is a hint for you, you will see more and more outrageous gun violence in the news... why... they want your guns and will probably start with red flag law, why... because they can't control an armed population lol.... basic 101 lol..

We practice false flag events all the time in training... fake bombings, fake event's in order to convince opponent's or population's to conform a certain way... This happens all the time, right in your face.... What surprises me is it is not like people don't know, I mean they even showed you and told you they were doing it in Hollywood movie's lol... Military trains for this but the three digit guys are masters at it.... they can make you believe anything they want... including 9/11 and all the mass shootings you think happened in this country... now don't flame me, I am not saying that some of them did not happen, but some were exactly that, false flags lol... These event's are happening all around the world, every single day lol...



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 01:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: firerescue



At least one of the main engineers involved in the project said they modeled it, and tested for plane impacts on the towers. And that's how I know about it - because they said so.
a reply to: turbonium1

Engineers calculated the impact forces on the building from an aircraft impact

Object was to determine if building would topple over from the impact

Determined impact would generate 13 million pound of force against building

Would take at least 17 million to knock building down , so would survive the impact

WTC towers did survive the initial impact . What doomed building were the fires acting against the unprotected steel supports




You're seriously suggesting that they didn't know, and account for the fact that planes.....also carry fuel?!? Fuel which could create fires in the buildings, after impact?!

Good one!


Doofus Engineer: We accounted for planes hitting the towers, and we knew they would withstand such an event. But we never had a clue that planes... CARRY FUEL!'





posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 03:11 AM
link   
Informative documentary for those who haven't seen it with interesting words from Leslie E Robertson (structural engineer) related to the design strength and probable weaknesses of the structures that led to collapse.
World Trade Centre - Anatomy of the Collapse




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 03:39 AM
link   
He claims nobody considered planes had fuel, which create fires, and said it with almost a straight face! He looked nervous, of course, because he's making up a bs story. 'We weren't responsible for that part, though. I don't think anyone considered fires from a plane impact, and if they had, we'd probably never have built the towers, because we'd have realized the fires would cause the entire building to collapse like a house of cards!'


We didn't consider fires, but if we HAD known planes carried fuel, which can cause fires. We knew that fires in buildings are a very bad thing, and they even can pulverize steel and concrete skyscrapers into dust!

Even a half-wit moron knows planes carry fuel, and that fuel causes fires, but not the geniuses who built the twin towers, who had absolutely NO CLUE planes carried fuel!



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 09:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: turbonium1

Even a half-wit moron knows planes carry fuel,



But he thinks the collapse can be replicated with a scale model.



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 07:27 AM
link   
Not sure why debunkers are grumbling as Jones and Harrit and two separate chemical scientists Farrer and Basille said there were paint chips in the dust samples with the nanothermite!
 It's not remarkable they encounter various things in the dust samples. Farrer and Basille found small chips that had a comparable chemical content to the Laclede paint chips, but they also established other chips that were distinctive.  It maybe just one side finds nanthermite and paint chips and Dr Milette finds just paint chips.
 You not presenting me new ways how the Molten Iron spheres got created by office fires?
You just neglect the only form when the steel exposed to extreme heat. 
Yes, there various ways of creating Iron Microspheres - but Mick using heat to create them.  And some of his experiments are just Iron bits coming off when ignited with flame.
400c to 600c way below temp to create Molten Iron spheres. 
The debunkers on here can produce evidence that indicates otherwise.

Look it obvious building seven was controlled demolition. You guys remember ignored my query: How can the Penthouse debris have traveled through structural steel resistance at free-fall speed? Still remains unanswered!
1: The Penthouse wave went down from upper floors to bottom floors in about six seconds!
2: Six seconds fall time- also matches when the building  began to fully collapse
For now, I am of the belief all the upper floors- came down in a downward spiral that took roughly six seconds to complete ( open to a second or two error) 
3: The Penthouse failure is not a disconnected event- it fell down when the upper floors all started to collapse together across the width of the building and took about six seconds + ( a second or two error) for the entire upper floor resistance to be gone.
4: NIST eastside area collapse was a bottom up collapse. The further west they went they got it completely wrong there and there timing for the internal collapses are totally off the mark, plus the trigger event is wrong.
5: The building did start emptying out inside but was absolutely done by controlled demolition, not progressive collapse.

Below just a crude quick mock-up of the controlled demolition to illustrate What I believe happened. Don't mock the drawing, I just trying to show you visually where I am going with this.
The bottom went ( bang) and later a downward compression torque like event occurred dragging all the upper floors down. The Penthouse collapse is misleading from the outside., it looks like a detached event but it not if the wave video accurate? The Penthouse is just collapsing because the inside collapsing and that takes seconds for all that dust and debris to get off of the way and hit the bottom. Others can disagree, but right now this is a theory that makes the most sense to me.  



edit on 25-11-2019 by Hulseyreport because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2019 by Hulseyreport because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2019 by Hulseyreport because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2019 by Hulseyreport because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 08:07 AM
link   
a reply to: Hulseyreport


You concerns has been addressed repeatedly. Now it’s time for you to stop changing the subject. Time to answer to your blatantly false arguments. Time to answer to your contradictions. Time to answer to your shortcomings.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

I think this is your list...

You



That false also - independents have analysed the chips and affirmed there was thermite materials embedded in the skin of the chips.


Still waiting on you to cite, quote, and link to those independent sources? Or do you admit that is a blatant falsehood?

So Harrit’s / Jones research is junk. Nobody can reproduce their results.

You again


Debunkers claim it paint chips based on nothing but opinion.


Another blatantly false argument by you



Analysis of Red/Gray Chips in WTC Dust

Dr. James Millette
MVA Scientific Consultants
www.MVAinc.com

February 20-25 2012
American Academy of Forensic Science
www.AAFS.org
2012 Annual Meeting
Atlanta, Georgia
www.mvainc.com...

Conclusions

The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.


Let’s see? The results of a professional lab with certifications they would lose if they messed something up. Along with money and business.


You


Red/gray chips explains why there were gaps, cracks, fractures in the steel that FEMA found.


No it doesn’t. You claim super thermite? That has no proof? And never been verified? And that it was used as an explosive? There is no evidence from the video, audio, seismic evidence of detonations or generated pressure waves with the force to damage WTC steel. Sorry.

You



It's a valid explanation why enormous amounts of Iron molten Microspheres are found in dust powder samples often gathered up far away from where workers started cutting the steel in the cleaning up process..
.

Sorry. It doesn’t.

Creating iron microspheres is not limited to or exclusive to thermite.

Sorry.



By MickWest
www.metabunk.org/making-iron-microspheres-grinding-impacts-welding-burning.t9533/

www.metabunk.org...

Burning Methods (external ignition)

Burning Paint Chips #1. www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #1: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings #1: www.metabunk.org...
Toner: www.metabunk.org...
Steel Wool #2: www.metabunk.org...
Burning Paint Chips #2: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Powder 320 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
Iron Filings 50 Mesh: www.metabunk.org...
*Pyrophoric iron: www.metabunk.org...

Sparking methods (Spark from solid objects

Steel on steel impact. www.metabunk.org...
Angle Grinder: www.metabunk.org...
Bic Lighter: www.metabunk.org...
Flint Striker: www.metabunk.org...
Rust on aluminum impact: www.metabunk.org...
1600's Flint: www.metabunk.org...

Melting Methods (External Energy/Heat Melts)

Arc Welding #1 (Magnet capture): www.metabunk.org...
Arc Welding #2 (Water capture): www.metabunk.org...
Thermite (Al + Fe2O3): www.metabunk.org...
*Oxy cutting
*Thermal lance cutting


* = Methods I've not personally tried


You


It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust.


How? If it was super thermite like your pushing, it would act like an explosive. It would consume itself during detonation. There would be nothing left to heat the pile. It would not make molten steel. I like how you want nano thermite to act like nano thermite except when you want it to make molten steel like regular thermite. Make up your mind. In your fantasy. Was it nano thermite used as an explosive. Or thermite used as a cutting charge.

Thermite? Same. It would consume itself in minutes. The pile was sprayed with water to control smoldering and flame ups. Molten steel creates violent steam explosions when hit with water. There were no large pools of frozen metal remove during clean up. The equipment could not remove steel “burning” thermite. I don’t think water stops a thermite reaction.

And there is no visible molten metal on the columns of the twin towers during collapse. The columns can be clearly seen still standing after the complete collapse of the floor systems.


No molten metal on the still standing columns. No visible burning thermite.

You



It clarifies why the rubble remains heat intense for months there was unignited nanothermite in the dust. To people on the ground it would just appear to be small red fragments of debris.


One. Dust wouldn’t be enough to keep 500,000 tons of ruble hot. Two. It doesn’t need oxygen to support its self sustaining reaction. No reason for it to stop once started All the thermite should have been consumed on detonation. Special if you are claiming it was used as an explosive. Three. If there was dust. It would take something like a magnesium igniter burning at 4000 F to ignite thermite dust.

You


yellow liquid spilling out of the towers


False argument. You mean one corner of one tower. You mean a mixture of burning plastic, lead, and copper from the location of a battery room.

With no visible cutting of any columns.



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 12:00 PM
link   
I realize you can't read!
Dr Farrer and Mark Basille were independent experts who studied the nanothermite chips. This is well known.
They requested samples from Jones to investigate on their own.
This project was early explored by Harrit and Jones. 
Harrit also received samples from Jones sources. He lives in Denmark not the United States.  
Basille then wanted to do further tests and have different labs around the country control and study the samples. So far no feedback has come back about that. In 2018 Basille claimed he wa still engaged and was still completing the work. Until he announces he no longer doing it, we must assume his still doing the research.

Dr Millette work address you posting there ( not an independent lab)
You forget he delivered no scientific paper.
A debunker released his early findings on International Skeptic site. Since 2012 no further work was provided. Even though he promised he would.
Oysten has admitted Millette did not carry out similar assessments.
Oystein knows full well the MEK and DSC tests determined the red/gray did not dissolve and when heated the red/gray chips showed a white hot flame above 1500c. 
Millette never did a DSC test or MEK test or BSE test.  He just neglected the rest of experiments after the XEDs he claims showed no elemental AI. Since we have no proof to what he really tested and there likelihood his found painted chips as the truth movement has found too.

He picked up his dust samples from outside the truth movement. 

Claiming there no proof when molten Iron spheres were located in the dust by the RJ Lee group. They likewise could not account for why there so many molten Iron particles in the dust.  
 Melted steel discovered by FEMA- what actually happened there still open for debate. It just stupid some people think office fires can achieve the melting point of steel. Those temps have never been recognized in any office fire ever. 
What sustaining the heat in the rubble for months- again more evidence extreme temp event occurred.
Then we have the statements of a river of yellow/red liquid found in the rubble ( that's clearly arising from melting of steel, iron, and other minerals, metal.) 
They found fingerprints of melting everywhere after the buildings were brought down.

Nanothermite is an explosive in away. Because you speaking about a material that outputs a lot of heat intensity at very low temp. They're also a gas discharged in tests Harrit released. There finding single chips, but that could be solid brick or block that got placed around the steel ( with hundreds of pieces when burned will release incredible heat and energy and pressure ( white-hot temp). It demonstrates for me why plenty of tower steel was split up, crushed, and ripped open while many bolts still remain. How can steel be forced sideways from the core by fire? Steel was moving out horizontally from the steel core, circumventing the dust plumes to affect buildings 100s of feet elsewhere. There literally no way steel just weakening from floor trusses failure would produce that end of the story.

Harrit found unignited nano-thermite in the dust, so it's obviously not all off reacted correctly for some reason. My best guess is fire did not reach some places inside the building to set off.. There was obviously nanothermite in the rubble too that was constantly reacting when got warmed and continued the heat in rubble. Plus plenty of steel would be very hot still from what just happened. Since rubble piled on rubble field  the heat would be trapped underneath.

Nobody claiming the whole core was demolition. You merely have to demolition enough steel supports to diminish the building to allow for a core-collapse. That video you showing most of the core missing. It now just one corner holding up in the air. Literally most of its gone.  You can't tell how hot that dust is. It like declaring a volcano dust plumes are not hot? And further, there obviously mixing of chemicals and metal, no dispute about that. But you defending it impossible iron was part of the liquid even though FEMA already declared on record steel melted!!!!!! They found liquid melted Iron, end of the story go home. 
edit on 25-11-2019 by Hulseyreport because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 01:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You


Oystein knows full well the MEK and DSC tests determined the red/gray did not dissolve and when heated the red/gray chips showed a white hot flame above 1500c.


Then by all means provide those quotes.

Or is your statement false like:


That false also - independents have analysed the chips and affirmed there was thermite materials embedded in the skin of the chips.


Again. A certified forensic lab doesn’t write a paper for peer review every time they run a test. Is a paper written every time a DNA test is ran?

If Harrit and Jones have legitimate findings, and chose to go via scientific paper vs certified forensic lab, then why have they not provided samples for independent verification to COMPLETE the discovery process.

I think you might read through the below again.
Especially if you are POSTING Oystein IS CREDIBLE.



By Oystein

The most basic debunking points are as followed:
They ignited 4 similar looking "chips" and measured the energy release per weight unit. The results ranged from 1.5 to 7.5 kiloJoules per gram, a wide spread that makes "high-tech nano-stuff" an unlikely explanation. More importantly, 2 of the sample released more than 4kJ/g of energy, which is the maximum energy thermite could possibly release due to the basic laws of this universe. This data alone disproves unequivocally that the material cannot possibly be the kind of thermite they claim to have found (aluminium + Fe2O3)
They claim to have found elemental Aluminium, one key ingredient to thermite, in a fifth chip. However, this fifth chip is of a different material than the four others, as is proven by their own data presented in figures 6 and 14. They did NOT dind free aluminium in any of the material that they igited and claimed to be or contain thermite
They compared the exothermic behaviour of their 4 ignition samples with that of real (nano-?) thermite found in literature, and claimed that the graphs are very similar. They are not: Compare figure 19 with figure 29 and note how the position of the peak differs significantly both on the X-axis (by more than 100°C) and the Y-axis (by a factor of 2 to 4.5). This result proves that their samples are not the kind of thermite known to science. (Note too how in figure 29 they only repeat the lowest of the 4 peaks from fig. 19 to make it not quite so apparent that their samples released waaay too much energy/power.)
Sunstealer has identified in insightful posts back in april 2009 that the crystaline structures we see in figures 8-10 resemble kaolinite (aluminiumsilicate) and hematite (iron oxide, Fe2O3). Their elemental composition as per the Harrit paper too points to kaolinite (Al, So Edit: Si, O) and hematite (Fe, O). Since Harrit found all of this embedded in an organic matrix, and since both kaolinite and hematite have been used throughout the ages and still used today as key ingredients to red paint, there can be no dount that the 4 red-grey chips from the ignition experiments is simply a red paint.
Sunstealer just the other day found that in a newer presentation, co-author Steven Jones showed XEDS spectra of primer paint they had scratched from original WTC structural steel. This spectrum resembles the spectrum in figure 14 nearly to a t! Hence, the fifth chip (which they soaked in MEK to find elemental Al) is thus proven to be primer paint from WTC steel

These are the main points where Harrit. Jones e.al. debunk themselves.

Much earned criticism also goes to the choice of Bentham as publishing house (zero impact in the scientific community, bad reputation for accepting even total junk as long as the pay-to-publish 800$ check clears. It has been establiched that not the journal and its editor-in-chief controlled the peer-review process, but instead the authors themselves were in control of their own "peer-review".

www.internationalskeptics.com...



The Harrit and Jones paper in junk science.
edit on 25-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 01:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You


Claiming there no proof when molten Iron spheres were located in the dust by the RJ Lee group.


By all means, please quote the additional letter write by R.J. Lee group when questioned if thermite would be the only cause of iron spheres.
edit on 25-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Nov, 25 2019 @ 08:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You


Oystein knows full well the MEK and DSC tests determined the red/gray did not dissolve and when heated the red/gray chips showed a white hot flame above 1500c.


Then by all means provide those quotes.

Or is your statement false like:


That false also - independents have analysed the chips and affirmed there was thermite materials embedded in the skin of the chips.


Again. A certified forensic lab doesn’t write a paper for peer review every time they run a test. Is a paper written every time a DNA test is ran?

If Harrit and Jones have legitimate findings, and chose to go via scientific paper vs certified forensic lab, then why have they not provided samples for independent verification to COMPLETE the discovery process.

I think you might read through the below again.
Especially if you are POSTING Oystein IS CREDIBLE.



By Oystein

The most basic debunking points are as followed:
They ignited 4 similar looking "chips" and measured the energy release per weight unit. The results ranged from 1.5 to 7.5 kiloJoules per gram, a wide spread that makes "high-tech nano-stuff" an unlikely explanation. More importantly, 2 of the sample released more than 4kJ/g of energy, which is the maximum energy thermite could possibly release due to the basic laws of this universe. This data alone disproves unequivocally that the material cannot possibly be the kind of thermite they claim to have found (aluminium + Fe2O3)
They claim to have found elemental Aluminium, one key ingredient to thermite, in a fifth chip. However, this fifth chip is of a different material than the four others, as is proven by their own data presented in figures 6 and 14. They did NOT dind free aluminium in any of the material that they igited and claimed to be or contain thermite
They compared the exothermic behaviour of their 4 ignition samples with that of real (nano-?) thermite found in literature, and claimed that the graphs are very similar. They are not: Compare figure 19 with figure 29 and note how the position of the peak differs significantly both on the X-axis (by more than 100°C) and the Y-axis (by a factor of 2 to 4.5). This result proves that their samples are not the kind of thermite known to science. (Note too how in figure 29 they only repeat the lowest of the 4 peaks from fig. 19 to make it not quite so apparent that their samples released waaay too much energy/power.)
Sunstealer has identified in insightful posts back in april 2009 that the crystaline structures we see in figures 8-10 resemble kaolinite (aluminiumsilicate) and hematite (iron oxide, Fe2O3). Their elemental composition as per the Harrit paper too points to kaolinite (Al, So Edit: Si, O) and hematite (Fe, O). Since Harrit found all of this embedded in an organic matrix, and since both kaolinite and hematite have been used throughout the ages and still used today as key ingredients to red paint, there can be no dount that the 4 red-grey chips from the ignition experiments is simply a red paint.
Sunstealer just the other day found that in a newer presentation, co-author Steven Jones showed XEDS spectra of primer paint they had scratched from original WTC structural steel. This spectrum resembles the spectrum in figure 14 nearly to a t! Hence, the fifth chip (which they soaked in MEK to find elemental Al) is thus proven to be primer paint from WTC steel

These are the main points where Harrit. Jones e.al. debunk themselves.

Much earned criticism also goes to the choice of Bentham as publishing house (zero impact in the scientific community, bad reputation for accepting even total junk as long as the pay-to-publish 800$ check clears. It has been establiched that not the journal and its editor-in-chief controlled the peer-review process, but instead the authors themselves were in control of their own "peer-review".

www.internationalskeptics.com...



The Harrit and Jones paper in junk science.


They set forth all the experiments in the paper that Oystein read.
By the way Oystein not an expert or chemist, he's a 9/11 debunker. 
Where can I locate his education background and science qualification? 
You have great belief he qualified to disparage this paper! So we need to find out his the field of employment then?
 In the meantime. Oystein disputing this superb work, as its pastime of his to do this. He further believes the chips are Leclede paint and later when Milette came onboard and held the Lcelde paint explanation he progressed further down this rabbit hole of his.
Of course, let u be honest Oystein true principle is Harrit and others have hoaxed the evidence and covering this up. Why i say that? Well because there no paint pigment on this earth that flares up at 430c and produces a white hot flame above 1500c and creates Iron Microspheres!

 He asserts they misidentified the substance they have?  But that's a lie because they acknowledged in their own research they checked if the chips were paint. Mclede paint explanation is ridiculous because it Aluminum oxide and Silica ( oxide of Silicon) So how this mix have produced Iron Microspheres? You think Oysten doesn't recognize this? He just forcing the narrative that they lied with no evidence to back that up. 

Dr Farrer and Mark Basille are Independent analysts and qualified chemists, they have established the samples as nanothermite.
What you searching for is known chemical lab in the country to establish it for you? It not as straightforward as you assume as many labs will reject to test samples the truth movement had over. They're a stigma associated with this subject and can run your business if people ridicule your findings. 
In saying all that it something I believe should happen. I don't know Jones and Harrit so it hard for me to reveal what actually is taking behind the scenes? I appreciate the submitted samples to the grand jury in New York. The AE911 truth seeking to get all this brought out in court of law.  We have to wait and see if they be successful in transforming the status quo positions the mainstream have about 9/11?

Read it and its foolishness. Credible? 
 Anyway my summary of what i just read.
1: Four chips look alike (he asserts)- and yet he grumbles about a fifth chip that different?
 If the four chips are ok, why is a fifth chip that remarkable? That discrepancy maybe a result from being something else ( paint chip maybe) or from condition that made it to be worthless?
2: Widespread 1.5 to 7.5 kilojoules, so it can't nanothermite?
Livermore National Labs- nanothermite was in a lively energitic spectrum of 2 kilojoules. The fact the red/grey chips are yielding higher energy output is absolutely more proof the Harrit team identified an exotic chemical/ explosive in the dust.
Crazy man Oystein ruling it because it's more energetic than thermite that's bizarre. He comparing it to known tested thermite, and still has figured it out is previously unknown engineered chemical explosive substance!!!
He declares the energy outputs defies basic law of the universe? Now they using science debunkers? 
Sunstealer whoever that is talking nonsense too.
Harrit claimed the AI was elemental, SI was elemental silicon, his missing the Carbon and Oxygen. From what I remember the Carbon was the Matrix. Oystein lying there too.



new topics

top topics



 
17
<< 78  79  80    82  83  84 >>

log in

join