Notre Dame: An Omen - and why I think it's almost a prophetic event ...

As I watched live feeds of Notre Dame burn, I could not shake the sense that I was seeing something I could only describe as nearly prophetic in its significance.

This essay clearly states why I felt that. It matters not whether the fire was accidental, or if it wasn't, who was responsible.

There are plenty of people who will decry the evils of western civilization and what they perceive as white supremacy. Yes, a lot of bad has been done in the context of western culture and by people claiming to march under the banner of the Cross of Christianity, but that only means that there are evil people abusing the system. What good thing has never been abused by corrupt humanity? If one looks at world history - even contemporary history - with clear eyes, one realizes that when it works the way it's supposed to, the influence of core Christian values has done much to make the world a better place, and in a very unique way. Western civilization, with all of its flaws and sins, is thus far the clearest expression of that core philosophy. Again, it's not perfect and it has been hijacked by many.

(The scriptures speak of those who profess a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. That does not mean that they deny signs and miraculous manifestations; the power of Christian godliness is the Cross, and those who misrepresent Christianity do not embrace the essential elements of the Cross which are death to ego, abandonment of the pretense of power and control and self-determination, a giving over of one's self to serve and not be served (see Philippians 2). But I am beginning to digress ...

Read this essay. It's a needful word. I don't know who Dennis Prager is and don't know if I'd agree with him on any other issue, but I believe that he's spot on here.

www.dennisprager.com...

Here are some exerpts:

The symbolism of the burning of Notre Dame Cathedral, the most renowned building in Western civilization, the iconic symbol of Western Christendom, is hard to miss. It is as if God Himself wanted to warn us in the most unmistakable way that Western Christianity is burning — and with it, Western civilization.

Every major Western (and one major non-Western) social and intellectual force has conspired to rid Europe of Christianity and the civilization it produced.

...
I don’t know if a worker accident or a radical Muslim set fire to Notre Dame Cathedral (as they have scores of other churches around Europe). In terms of what the fire represented, it doesn’t much matter. What matters is the omen: Europe is burning, just as Notre Dame was.

To be clear, I do not believe that we are witnessing the demise of Christianity. Perhaps that of western culture, but western culture is not Christianity, it is simply a culture that has been, do a large degree, historically shaped by Christian thought. Christianity has weathered 2,000 years of hardship and it will continue.
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in my opinion it was an accident and people are going to bend over backwards to blame muslims/islam

it is part of the agenda

And the dozens of other vandalizations and fires... all accidents?

You may be correct in your assumption that it was all a big accident. Or I may be correct in my assumption that is was intentional. We'll never know. The premise of the cited essay is, at any rate, independent of that issue.
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originally posted by: incoserv
And the dozens of other vandalizations and fires... all accidents?

You may be correct in your assumption that it was all a big accident. Or I may be correct in my assumption that is was intentional. We'll never know. The premise of the cited essay is, at any rate, independent of that issue.
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maybe they were
maybe they were vandals

i dont know


i fail too see a connection though either way. i know that

someone tried to connect some dude in the states walking into a church with gas as proof that notre dame was arson.

i just dont see it

i think the most likely is it was an accident.

clearly people are reaching hard to paint this as some evil muslim thing.
that much is very clear

a reply to: incoserv

Very good thread. I'm extremely comforted by the fact there has been a re awakening and acceptance of Christendom in Russia.

The nascent push back, a new "gates of Vienna" ( further East/Russia) stopping the acceptance through PC culture of Islamification of the Western tradition.

Whilst a lot of progress would not be possible without the backing of the Church in science and other disciplines; my own views are that the "Christian way" is nothing more than the old Roman Empire Version 2. The consolidation of power and control of people through religion was a more ready acceptance of State rule over every aspect of your life.

In my view we'll be seeing a 100 year reign of secularism, or a "new World Order" if you like with its genesis from China.

But of more concern in the immediate future is the war of attrition against the west through PC, terrorism, theft of Freedoms that we took for granted, free speech, control of information.

And financial Armageddon through a stock market crash or a derivatives bubble crash. Dark times ahead.

a reply to: incoserv

S & F for an interesting thread. I'm a former Catholic and today I'm not a big fan of organized religion. One of my favorite quotes states it perfectly:

Faith is very different than Religion. Religion needs Faith to survive, but Faith does not need Religion. Religion is something that is taught, Faith is something you have and build on. Religion is taught by man, who, as with most things, will corrupt it to their own selfish ends. Religion indoctrinates and brainwashes people to live a certain way and to adhere to specific moral codes. Religion discriminates, segregates and breeds hatred, violence and death in some parts of the world. Religious leaders are often corrupted and tempted by the very same evil influences they tell their followers to avoid. I'll stick with Faith and avoid the parasite of humanity, which is known as Religion.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Did you read the link? Have you done any other deep research as to how its being played out over the last 40 years.

bend over backwards to blame muslims/islam

And you can cite any info for your "claim"

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: TinySickTears

Did you read the link? Have you done any other deep research as to how its being played out over the last 40 years.

bend over backwards to blame muslims/islam

And you can cite any info for your "claim"

nope
didnt read it. not going to

info for my claim?

sure

the multitude of threads on this site with blatant lies.
fake audio.
clear links to troll accounts on twitter

you know

stuff like that

# man 1 member started 6 threads in 1 day in many different forums all pointing to the muslims.

it started happening while it was still on fire

all about muslims


i do not need to read his link to form an opinion

his link is not going to make or break me

i am going to wait for more info to come out

an essay is not really my bag


i also said i dont know for sure but accident seems most likely to me

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: incoserv

Whilst a lot of progress would not be possible without the backing of the Church in science and other disciplines; my own views are that the "Christian way" is nothing more than the old Roman Empire Version 2. The consolidation of power and control of people through religion was a more ready acceptance of State rule over every aspect of your life.

I addressed that reality in my post. That Roman Empire Version 2 is, emphatically, not biblical Christianity.

The core and spirit of biblical Christianity is best summed up in the second chapter of the epistle to the Philipian church, namely in this passage:

1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Do you see how antithetical to the Empire this is? That is why Christianity was hated and persecuted in the Roman empire until Constantine finally realized that if couldn't beat them, he had to join them. He couldn't contain them from the outside, so he decided to control them from the inside.

Ideas that western civilization values, like equality of women, the inherent value to human life, are not historically prevalent in human history, but spring from the core values of the Christian faith.

a reply to: incoserv

I too felt that sense of significance as the church burned and as the spire fell.

Yet also I felt that significance again on the day that followed, as the pictures showed the altar, unharmed beyond the destruction.

www.vaticannews.va...

A picture that seemed to speak of great hope for the world as a whole.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: TinySickTears
...

bend over backwards to blame muslims/islam

And you can cite any info for your "claim"

This thread is not about how the fire started. Please don't let it get derailed. There are plenty of other threads to talk about that. (I actually made a short parenthetical comment about hat in my original post, but edited it out for clarification.)

originally posted by: Gogmagog
a reply to: incoserv

I too felt that sense of significance as the church burned and as the spire fell.

Yet also I felt that significance again on the day that followed, as the pictures showed the altar, unharmed beyond the destruction.

www.vaticannews.va...

A picture that seemed to speak of great hope for the world as a whole.

I as said the church invisible and triumphant has weathered 2,000 years of persecution and it only grows stronger under it. Western civilization may burn, but it if does, it just might be the best thing for the church.

a reply to: incoserv

Forgive me please. But i felt it was a symbol of hope for all humanity, not just church or christians.

originally posted by: Gogmagog
a reply to: incoserv

Forgive me please. But i felt it was a symbol of hope for all humanity, not just church or christians.

Nothing to forgive! You are, by all means, entitled to your opinion and sense of history.

a reply to: incoserv

The triumph of hope over despair. That is what picture said to me. Hope for all that something can survive.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
in my opinion it was an accident and people are going to bend over backwards to blame muslims/islam

it is part of the agenda

Does 800 year old oak burn that easily?


Another interview
Get your google translater out

a reply to: TinySickTears

OK I get that about more info coming out of the fire before drawing any conclusions

see the quote above.

Every major Western (and one major non-Western) social and intellectual force has conspired to rid Europe of Christianity and the civilization it produced.

If you were intellectually honest you would see how multiculturalism has played out like that. Its not all about being anti-Islam as you seem to want to steer the conversation towards.

originally posted by: incoserv
And the dozens of other vandalizations and fires... all accidents?

You may be correct in your assumption that it was all a big accident. Or I may be correct in my assumption that is was intentional. We'll never know. The premise of the cited essay is, at any rate, independent of that issue.
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the other vandalizations were done by fanatics, feminist and islamist. in europe jewish cemeteries were regulary vandalized by spraying swastikas and anti-semitic slogans on the graves.

a reply to: incoserv

You cannot have christianity without the backdrop of the old world order. The hierarchical nature of the physical church has its genesis in the old. The "teacher known as Jesus" did not come to create a physical church.

Do you see how antithetical to the Empire this is?

Not really. The empire had to re imagine itself if it had any chance of surviving. Jupiter became Jehovah, old pagan sites were converted to Church sites. Constantine created the church at the point of the military sword. A State enforced official religion to join religion with the State.

Spirituality combined with Law controlling every aspect of human existence.

One of founding principles of christianity was the idea of the divinity of the Trinity. Much deliberation and polemic went into deciding whether to include that as it was of pagan origin

Christianity was hated and persecuted

Well Rome spared no quarter to any rebellion.

Its a bit of a chicken over the egg analogy. The greatest secret is lying in plain sight. Good deeds of the church are done by a willing populace who give and keep on giving. All I see with the church is consolidation of power and wealth and

"Your reward will be in heaven, whilst us priest get to enjoy the riches in this life thank you very much"

a reply to: incoserv

like equality of women, the inherent value to human life, are not historically prevalent in human history, but spring from the core values of the Christian faith.

Again you're simplifying - there was no place for giving power to women in the church. St Pauls misogamy is fairly obvious.

Lets not whitewash history -
www.christiantoday.com...

The Church was seen as part of the establishment elite that suffocated rather than encouraged equal engagement and participation. Indeed Church teaching on women was seen as fuelling inequality throughout society. Women were barred from ministry and the Church of England refused to remove the bride's vow to "obey" her husband from the marriage service. Furthermore its Bishops in the House of Lords did not oppose the controversial 'Cat and Mouse Act' which facilitated the harsh treatment of suffragettes in prison. As long as there was theological justification for political inequality, the suffrage movement could not hope to change the status quo.

the inherent value to human life, are not historically prevalent in human history

bullsn"p, outside a few self defeating human sacrifice cultures ( Mayans) human life is considered "sacred" in most, but not for the reasons you think.

Its cool to put value on life because thats how the economy works. A tax wage slave from when you're born to when you die. Your taxes mostly go to pay artificial debt.

The "machine" wants you to think you are free, have pittance left over every week to keep you from rebelling.

You also conveniently overlook at how religion with the state kept us as peons for our feudal overlords.

Now with money running out see how euthanasia is slowly creeping in - why should the State look after the elderly, your usefulness as a tax slave is over.