A Mathematical Analysis of the Star of Bethlehem

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

Believe what you want, you had to find some obscure Australian from an obscure university, do research, work it out for yourself. Not my problem

Ok, you are convinced he was real . So please show me the evidence? Anything that proves Jesus was real.

Why are there so many similer stories that pre date jesus?


Many mythologies have a Christ like character whose story is set around the same pattern. Osiris, the Egyptian god of the underworld had a very similar life story and the ancient Egyptians celebrated his ‘passion’ with gusto. Osiris’ son, Horus was born to a virgin in a cave with a star overhead.

It's a recycled story!

Really
Really

How about you show me what about the Osiris story is similar
But
Before you do repeat some Chinese whisper crock of crap story you picked up of the internet about Osiris and the similarities of Christ, go study Osiris and the legend first, not some inbetweeners fantastical beliefs but the real Osiris story

I am so over ignorant people repeating some made up tv show that is based on a lie that they just accepted without any real research

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

And as for getting information from obscure historians lollol You do realise that many historians believe that there is no real evidence that jesus existed, and is just recycled stories from other Mythical stories before Jesus.

The countless martyrs in the 1st century that included those who saw Jesus are a clear indication that he was a historical figure. Stubborn secularism wants to wish away Jesus from existence, even to the extent of renaming the calendar to CE (common era) rather than AD (age of the king Jesus) which is what it was based off in the first place.

Like Raggedy said, you can deny all the spectacular stuff involved with the narrative of Jesus, but do deny his historicity is only based in the imagination of wishful atheists

What I don’t understand is how people can be so dumb, buy into this “Jesus isn’t real” stuff.
It’s not like they have done anything more than listen to 1 argument, based on a persons faith and beliefs.
Not a chance that a person who believed the “Jesus isn’t real narrative” have any education or capacity to research.
Staggering

Anyway, cheers

originally posted by: Raggedyman

What I don’t understand is how people can be so dumb, buy into this “Jesus isn’t real” stuff.
It’s not like they have done anything more than listen to 1 argument, based on a persons faith and beliefs.
Not a chance that a person who believed the “Jesus isn’t real narrative” have any education or capacity to research.
Staggering

Anyway, cheers

It's a phase people often go through. Questioning the entirety of it, assuming they continue looking for knowledge, will eventually be of benefit because they no longer have to rely on blind faith. Given enough effort of searching for the truth without bias, and disposing dead-end philosophies they may accumulate on the way, they will eventually know with logical assertions and historical consistencies that Jesus is fact and offers the liberating and peaceful philosophy to anyone who believes and acts accordingly..

a reply to: Raggedyman



You're welcome. Yeah, it's almost 30 minutes long, quite educational though.

ETA If impatient, skip to the 5 minute mark or so.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: Raggedyman

You're welcome.

Yeah, it's almost 30 minutes long, quite educational though.

ETA If impatient, skip to the 5 minute mark or so.

You didn't check the claims in the movie, because if you did you would realize they are mostly all false. Take for example Horus:

zeitgeist claims horus is the sun god (Sourceless), but the sun God of Egypt is actually Ra Source (actual Egyptian document)
zeitgeist claims he was born of a virgin (sourceless), but his father was Osiris Source (actual Egyptian document)
zeitgeist claims he was born on December 25th (sourcless), but scholars attribute his birthday to within the epagomenal days and specifically July 15th (real source)

I would continue but the rest of the claims likewise have no actual basis in history, it is solely in the imagination of people trying to discredit the historicity of Jesus. Check your sources, don't blindly trust someone who is peddling the opinion you want to hear.

a reply to: cooperton

I forgot to add that I have since learned that some of the claims are inaccurate but the theory still stands. The bible is astrotheology. But whatever, I don't have a dog in the fight. The immaculate conception is the biggest clue to it all being a crock. YMMV.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: cooperton

I forgot to add that I have since learned that some of the claims are inaccurate but the theory still stands. The bible is astrotheology. But whatever, I don't have a dog in the fight. The immaculate conception is the biggest clue to it all being a crock. YMMV.

The theory doesn't stand though. Jesus's connection with the cosmos, given that he is the manifestation of the Creator of the Cosmos, is undeniable, but to twist that and say that he is simply a cosmological metaphor is absurd.

You may not have a horse in the race now, but one day you may realize the importance of these major historical events. To blindly scrutinize them at the present time is rash

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

And as for getting information from obscure historians lollol You do realise that many historians believe that there is no real evidence that jesus existed, and is just recycled stories from other Mythical stories before Jesus.

The countless martyrs in the 1st century that included those who saw Jesus are a clear indication that he was a historical figure. Stubborn secularism wants to wish away Jesus from existence, even to the extent of renaming the calendar to CE (common era) rather than AD (age of the king Jesus) which is what it was based off in the first place.

Like Raggedy said, you can deny all the spectacular stuff involved with the narrative of Jesus, but do deny his historicity is only based in the imagination of wishful atheists

Ok, list the evidence that jesus was a real person? I am not talking about hearsay and stories. Please list the historical accounts that jesus was a living person?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

Believe what you want, you had to find some obscure Australian from an obscure university, do research, work it out for yourself. Not my problem

Ok, you are convinced he was real . So please show me the evidence? Anything that proves Jesus was real.

Why are there so many similer stories that pre date jesus?


Many mythologies have a Christ like character whose story is set around the same pattern. Osiris, the Egyptian god of the underworld had a very similar life story and the ancient Egyptians celebrated his ‘passion’ with gusto. Osiris’ son, Horus was born to a virgin in a cave with a star overhead.

It's a recycled story!

Really
Really

How about you show me what about the Osiris story is similar
But
Before you do repeat some Chinese whisper crock of crap story you picked up of the internet about Osiris and the similarities of Christ, go study Osiris and the legend first, not some inbetweeners fantastical beliefs but the real Osiris story

I am so over ignorant people repeating some made up tv show that is based on a lie that they just accepted without any real research

Ok, you are talking absolute rubbish now. It's called blind belief. Other examples for you!

Dionysus was the son of Zeus and a virgin woman; he was able to turn water into wine and was killed and resurrected. Attis, another Greek god was honored every spring in a ritual in which his effigy was buried and believed to rise again after three days. Hercules was reputed to be another god/virgin offspring who was killed and rose again.
Perhaps the now defunct Christ figure with the most surprisingly similar story was Mithras whose life was an almost exact parallel, his worshipers even celebrated his birthday on 25 December.

What annoys me is in this day and age, people still believe in s God, when there is no evidence what so ever that a God exists! It is rediculus to think that a God from your religon, or any religon is real!

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: cooperton

I forgot to add that I have since learned that some of the claims are inaccurate but the theory still stands. The bible is astrotheology. But whatever, I don't have a dog in the fight. The immaculate conception is the biggest clue to it all being a crock. YMMV.

The theory doesn't stand though. Jesus's connection with the cosmos, given that he is the manifestation of the Creator of the Cosmos, is undeniable, but to twist that and say that he is simply a cosmological metaphor is absurd.

You may not have a horse in the race now, but one day you may realize the importance of these major historical events. To blindly scrutinize them at the present time is rash

Your mental gymnastics are noted and impressive. I wish you well with what you believe. I wasn't trying to de-convert you.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

Ok, list the evidence that jesus was a real person?

The writings of Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Thomas, Philip, James, Peter, Paul, Jude, and so forth, many of whom died for Jesus (they wouldn't have died for a mythological contrivance). even Josephus mentions him indubitably once (Jewish Antiquities 20.9.1), and arguably twice (Jewish Antiquities 18.3.3), despite being a Jew. He was also mentioned in the talmud, further reinforcing his historicity:

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald ... cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy."

The Quran also mentions Jesus extensively. There is also Tacitus who offers a secular account of Jesus - the fact that there is any trace of Christians before it was the state-endorsed religion is mind-boggling considering the excessive efforts to destroy it:

"Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome"

Once Christianity became legalized, primary writings boomed and are countless in number.


Not to mention our calendar is based around his coming (AD - "in the year of the lord"). So every time you date anything remember it revolves around the historical coming of Jesus.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
I wish you well with what you believe.

When asked if he believed in God Carl Jung replied, "I don't need to believe, I know"

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

Deny He did miracles, was God, say He was mental, was not the messiah. You can say it was hyperbole, say it was a story manipulated by the Catholic Church that’s fine, to say Jesus didn’t exist, simply dumb.more recorded evidence for Jesus as a historical figure than just about anyone else from that time 

That is Simply not true, and you know it! If that was the case, then historians would not have been debating the fact if he existed or not! And they have been debating this for years!

The Life History Of Jesus Parallels That Of Other Mythical Beings Too Closely To Be Real. And the fact that historical evidence is pretty much does not exist.

Believe what you want, you had to find some obscure Australian from an obscure university, do research, work it out for yourself. Not my problem

Ok, you are convinced he was real . So please show me the evidence? Anything that proves Jesus was real.

Why are there so many similer stories that pre date jesus?


Many mythologies have a Christ like character whose story is set around the same pattern. Osiris, the Egyptian god of the underworld had a very similar life story and the ancient Egyptians celebrated his ‘passion’ with gusto. Osiris’ son, Horus was born to a virgin in a cave with a star overhead.

It's a recycled story!

Really
Really

How about you show me what about the Osiris story is similar
But
Before you do repeat some Chinese whisper crock of crap story you picked up of the internet about Osiris and the similarities of Christ, go study Osiris and the legend first, not some inbetweeners fantastical beliefs but the real Osiris story

I am so over ignorant people repeating some made up tv show that is based on a lie that they just accepted without any real research

Ok, you are talking absolute rubbish now. It's called blind belief. Other examples for you!

Dionysus was the son of Zeus and a virgin woman; he was able to turn water into wine and was killed and resurrected. Attis, another Greek god was honored every spring in a ritual in which his effigy was buried and believed to rise again after three days. Hercules was reputed to be another god/virgin offspring who was killed and rose again.
Perhaps the now defunct Christ figure with the most surprisingly similar story was Mithras whose life was an almost exact parallel, his worshipers even celebrated his birthday on 25 December.

What annoys me is in this day and age, people still believe in s God, when there is no evidence what so ever that a God exists! It is rediculus to think that a God from your religon, or any religon is real!

Yawn

Really, ditto
Yawn. Where did Dinonicearse turn water into wine

I asked kindly you educated yourself first
Pity I have to school you like a child

www.tektonics.org...

It’s to much, I just don’t see the value on wasting my time with such ignorance and laziness. Please remain dumb

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Raggedyman

And as for getting information from obscure historians lollol You do realise that many historians believe that there is no real evidence that jesus existed, and is just recycled stories from other Mythical stories before Jesus.

The countless martyrs in the 1st century that included those who saw Jesus are a clear indication that he was a historical figure. Stubborn secularism wants to wish away Jesus from existence, even to the extent of renaming the calendar to CE (common era) rather than AD (age of the king Jesus) which is what it was based off in the first place.

Like Raggedy said, you can deny all the spectacular stuff involved with the narrative of Jesus, but do deny his historicity is only based in the imagination of wishful atheists

Ok, list the evidence that jesus was a real person? I am not talking about hearsay and stories. Please list the historical accounts that jesus was a living person?

Can you list me some evidence Caesar was real, Genghis Khan, Kubla, Alexander, Pharoa, Nebuchadnezzar or even Napoleon? Please list the historical accounts that they were living people. Not hearsay and stories, real...

So dumb, so ignorant, so lazy

I noticed that no one is talking about the specific points mentioned in the opening post. Did you get bored of the actual topic? As described in the title?

a reply to: cooperton

I agree but he is still from Arcturus: Keeper of heaven, King of Kings and Angels. An alien to our world and North Star.
Starship Bethlehem most likely. Lucifer and Arc-Angel Michael were opposing armadas.

Hence Antartica Archaeological Dig...warring space tribes.

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

Sadly '___', many people would think watching Zeitgeist passes for research, as has been said, it’s choc full of lies and disinformation
If you search YouTube for a video pointing out the faults in zeitgeist you might be interested, doubt you care enough though
Anyway, thanks but zeitgeist is the perfect analogy of atheist research, dabble, watch, believe the lies

originally posted by: LostGods
a reply to: cooperton

I agree but he is still from Arcturus: Keeper of heaven, King of Kings and Angels. An alien to our world and North Star.
Starship Bethlehem most likely. Lucifer and Arc-Angel Michael were opposing armadas.

Hence Antartica Archaeological Dig...warring space tribes.

lightspeeddriver missed the implications that the human manifestation of the Creator would have an intimate connection with the cosmos, since He created it. He was the material manifestation of the Truth, just as there is much objective truth in the orbits of the heavens. Used to mark times, like a giant cosmological clock. 12 Tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, 12 celestial divisions in the sky. They encompass the entirety of the celestial habitations. As above so below, as in heaven so on earth.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: DpatC

The author makes some incredible assumptions based on very little evidence
You can’t look at biblical statements with your presentism mindset
A star, could have been any type of light in the night sky, maybe Caesar’s comet as sookie suggested

Reality we have no idea what it was and assumption is silly

Someone needs to tell that to the numbskulls teaching it as fact to young children.

Have you ever thought what the penalties of owning childrens thoughts and minds should be ?

Christians as everyone else are paramount in the paranoia lie to everyone movement.

Faith is the basis of such.

Cleaning the Universe of these REAL SINS will be an unreal few months.

a reply to: Raggedyman

No worries. I could have posted a different video ) but I figured the zeitgeist one would be a good place to start. As another member pointed out we are off topic now so I will bow out. (I never usually participate in religious threads btw.)

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: LostGods
a reply to: cooperton

I agree but he is still from Arcturus: Keeper of heaven, King of Kings and Angels. An alien to our world and North Star.
Starship Bethlehem most likely. Lucifer and Arc-Angel Michael were opposing armadas.

Hence Antartica Archaeological Dig...warring space tribes.

lightspeeddriver missed the implications that the human manifestation of the Creator would have an intimate connection with the cosmos, since He created it. He was the material manifestation of the Truth, just as there is much objective truth in the orbits of the heavens. Used to mark times, like a giant cosmological clock. 12 Tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, 12 celestial divisions in the sky. They encompass the entirety of the celestial habitations. As above so below, as in heaven so on earth.

And again, it comes down to a question of whether cosmic phenomena was designed with prophetic figures in mind, or the other way around. Astronomers can tell you the stars were in place billions of years before humans even existed and their physics is an automatic process of cause and effect completely unrelated to human philosophy. The sun did not ignite for our sake.