Insurgent vs Freedom Fighter

Originally posted by wwrfla

100,000 Iraqis killed: Lancet (British Medical Journal)

That Lancet Report has been debunked and debunked and debunked and debunked!

Have a good one.




seekerof

ThatsJustWeird and SeekerOf, still NOT a single authoritative, FACTUAL, rebuttal. The respected medical journal of Britain "The Lancet" prepared a thoroughly researched report setting the number of Iraqis killed at 100,000. No authoritative organization has claimed that its study is flawed. If you have such an AUTHORITATIVE source, please provide it.
Have either of you bothered to read the U.S. Army's report of the investigation of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba? I didn't think so. The facts are there...it's unfortunate that you simply choose to disregard them. I'm not surprised...millions of patriotic Germans believed that the invasion of Poland was actually a "liberation". Since neither of you can be swayed by facts, I have only one last question. HAVE EITHER OF YOU ENLISTED IN THE ARMED FORCES? Or are you simply content to cheer from the sidelines for other Americans to lose arms, legs, and even their lives for a war you support only with words. Ah, but that's simply another issue you will fail to respond to factually...isn't it?

SeekerOf, you might want to read FULLY your last "source" which purports to "debunk" the Lancet's study. If you do, you will see that the author posted a retraction: "I'm afraid I mangled the statistics argument. My inadequate knowledge of the subject led me to make an argument that is INCORRECT....leaving me with nothing but personal PREJUDICE upon which to stand my argument". Yes, I ask you for authoritative sources...and and you provide "mangled statistics", "inadequate knowledge", "incorrect argument", and "personal prejudice"...now that's what I call authoritative sources
Still waiting to hear about your enlistment.

Originally posted by James the Lesser

Also, Germany had democracy before we got there, that is how Hitler gained power, he was voted in by the people. Like Bush......

hittler was not exactly "voted" in. in fact the nazi party held some seats. then they kept walking out which forced elections if i remember correctly they did this more than once. useing this he kept gaining more seats and eventualy he basicly blackmailed the president (whatever term they were useing i can't think of it) into putting him into a high possition (i believe it was basicaly like the vice president). now he pulls a beutifull traiterouse act while pointing the blame elsewhere. he burned down the reichstag (german parliment building). which alows him to declare martial law. this is how he took the power. he was not voted to that possition. he conned his way in then commited treason to become dictater. a beutifull scheme if i do say so. you must remember he already had a crack propaganda team to put the correct spin on things. also hitler was a master orater just like churchill was. even if you can't understand him his speaches even feel powerfull.

there realy is no differance between insurgents and freedom figters. it is just differant words depending on which side you are on. if you are on the opposit side they are insurgents, if on their side they are freedom fighters.

and i know a lot have been saying this, and a lot disagree. but why does the US have the right to push the democracy down anyones throtes. how can you expect people to embace what is forced onto them? will this stablize the reagen or does this possibly make things worse.

iraq was not a peace loveing country by any means but they were a sovern nation. so far no wmd's have been found i do not believe they will be. not to say they do not exist. most likely they were moved to another country for safe keeping long before. the terrorists claimed to have a valid reason to attack the US before as the suporters of isrial. do they not now have a valid reason to attack. the US can now ligitimatly be called an agresser. if wmd's had been found at the begining they could have claimed this, now they can be seen as being correct. oops.
the worst thing is that if the US had invaded iraq dureing desert storm it would not have looked so bad. in the game of nation states looks account for quite a lot.

Originally posted by wwrfla
ThatsJustWeird and SeekerOf, still NOT a single authoritative, FACTUAL, rebuttal. The respected medical journal of Britain "The Lancet" prepared a thoroughly researched report setting the number of Iraqis killed at 100,000. No authoritative organization has claimed that its study is flawed. If you have such an AUTHORITATIVE source, please provide it.

From another thread on this subject....


www.slate.com...

100,000 Dead—or 8,000

The authors of a peer-reviewed study, conducted by a survey team from Johns Hopkins University, claim that about 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war. Yet a close look at the actual study, published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet, reveals that this number is so loose as to be meaningless.

The report's authors derive this figure by estimating how many Iraqis died in a 14-month period before the U.S. invasion, conducting surveys on how many died in a similar period after the invasion began (more on those surveys later), and subtracting the difference. That difference—the number of "extra" deaths in the post-invasion period—signifies the war's toll. That number is 98,000. But read the passage that cites the calculation more fully:

We estimate there were 98,000 extra deaths (95% CI 8000-194 000) during the post-war period.

Readers who are accustomed to perusing statistical documents know what the set of numbers in the parentheses means. For the other 99.9 percent of you, I'll spell it out in plain English—which, disturbingly, the study never does. It means that the authors are 95 percent confident that the war-caused deaths totaled some number between 8,000 and 194,000. (The number cited in plain language—98,000—is roughly at the halfway point in this absurdly vast range.)

Damn right bro!

Americans thing their something fkin special like they can't be an oppresor when everyone know the cheap greedy American and Zionist bastards are trying to profet from the murderous war mongoring and it's the Americans that control Iraq not that BS puppet govt, as soon as America leaves that govt collapses and the rebels take over..

more power to the rebels, they're the freedom fighters..

Originally posted by wwrfla
The point of my earlier posting was simply this...any indigenous people fighting a foreign invader of their homeland IS a freedom fighter. A freedom fighter is one who fights to "free" his homeland from the boot of the foreign invader who has killed his brother, raped his sister, and assaulted his grandmother. An "invader" can NOT make a legitimate claim of "liberation" when the invader has killed, indiscriminantly, some 100,000 of the people (men, women, children, grandmothers, and grandfathers) whom they claim to be "liberating". If China invaded America under the guise of "liberation", and Chinese troops broke into your home at 2 A.M. and carried off your 15 year old sister, your 70 year old grandmother, and your brother...all because you had served in the Alabama National Guard, and the Chinese were convinced that your were an "insurgent/terrorist". Holding your family members as "bargaining chips", so that you would turn yourself in; all the while gang-raping your 15 year old sister; stripping your 70 year old grandmother naked, and making her crawl around the cell block on all fours while a Chinese soldier rode her back calling her a "donkey"; and beat your brother to death (later returning his bruised and battered body to the family along with a death certificate which lists his cause of death as "Cardiogenic Shock of Unknown Etiology"). Well, would you take up arms against the Chinese "liberators" and try to kill as many Chinese as you could? Yeah...so would I. And you would be a freedom fighter. The situation I just described to you is a recounting of actual occurences committed by U.S. forces in Iraq...each factually documented by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, as well as the British Government's Human Rights envoy in Iraq.

Originally posted by xphantomx
Damn right bro!

Americans thing their something fkin special like they can't be an oppresor when everyone know the cheap greedy American and Zionist bastards are trying to profet from the murderous war mongoring and it's the Americans that control Iraq not that BS puppet govt, as soon as America leaves that govt collapses and the rebels take over..

more power to the rebels, they're the freedom fighters.

i will admit that the us has bungled things by attacking iraq. and even that some are makeing tons of cash on the war.

the main problem however is that we are giveing the terrorist organizations a new recruiting opertunity. "see how the evil west is supporting isrial by takeing over the mid east".

this terrorist problem was created when out of guilt the western nations helped form isrial after they realized how wrong they were about nazi treatment of jews.

what we have in basic form is this. "this evil guy (isrial) has stolen my (palistinian) house and land. i tried to take it back but was stopped by these others ( the west). i'm going to start killing everyone untill i get it back".

this is basicly how the terrorist seems to view things. he feels justified in his acts because he was wronged. remember the surrounding nations attacked isrial on more than one occasion and lost. indeed some of the land isrial holds was gained in these wars. so since he couldant win a fair, (the forces of isrial tended to be far outnumbered but still won), fight i will start killing civilians to get it back. he feels justified in attacking the western nations because they helped let the jews in in the first place. as well as helped them keep it afterwards.

we realy can't kick the jewish people out,(two wrongs do not make a right). just think of what would happen if someone told the us and canada to get out as we took the land from the natives unfairly. this would be the same thing. the best job we can hope to do would be to help intigrate the displace within isrial and the surrounding nations. which of course the years of terrorisim has made harder. the isralies can say ( and i don't blame them), "they hate us they want to see us dead, how can we trust them".

so we must now try to detroy the terroist oganizations while at the same time not createing even more animosity towords us. also we need to keep in mind that this was all started with good intentions in the first place. as such we have to be carefull in doing it, we just can't kick someone else off their land and give it to the displaced palistinians. if we did that we would just start another problem.

Wow, reading over this thread again....

Sad.


It's absolutely beyond me how some people can sit up there and defend what those terrorist/insurgents are doing.
The past couple weeks, how many innocents have died compared to soldiers (of both the US and Iraq)?
It's absoultely ridiculous. They gain NOTHING from killing civillians. The fact that they're doing it on purpose makes it even worse.

I'm trying to figure out who has the lower IQ. The terrorists who somehow fail to realize that by continuing in their stupidity, they're prolonging what they're supposedly fighting for.
Or the morons who support/defend them.
Either way, both sets are a bunch of sick bastards....




Anyway, rant done...


who are the real freedom fighters?

A U.S. Army soldier comforts a child as he carries the fatally wounded youngster after a suicide car bomb blast in Mosul, Iraq, on May 2 (Michael Yori / US Army via AP)