US has largest, most powerful unelected government in history

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

In what regard do you consider our personal liberty better than any other country in the world? Freedom of religion? Freedom of speech? Freedom of movement?

All of the above.

I’m sure we have plenty people on here from Canada. Britain. Norway. Germany. Etc. let’s ask them if they feel any less free than us. Come on all you sorry sack, European serfs and Canadian debt peons. Chime in here and tell us about your life in bondage, and how much you wished you were American!!

Canada here. I feel less free. As a recent example, the Trudeau government just gave police the power to order a breathalyzer without probable cause. This would violate America's 4th amendment.

You realize that here, in the us, the police can pull you over, and if you have anything over a few hundred dollars on you they can and do take it from you. Permanently. Without recourse.

Do you have to be suspected of wrong-doing?

a reply to: MadLad

You must not keep up with the times. That right is largely gone. Also, police can bust in your house no with no knock warrants. They can now legally shoot your dog if it barks or doesn’t sit still. They can hold you without charges, or representation, and 90% of prisoners go to jail without a trial by jury of their peers.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

You must not keep up with the times. That right is largely gone. Also, police can bust in your house no with no knock warrants. They can now legally shoot your dog if it barks or doesn’t sit still. They can hold you without charges, or representation, and 90% of prisoners go to jail without a trial by jury of their peers.

I wasn't aware that they got rid of the 4th amendment.

a reply to: MadLad

You do NOT have to be guilty of wrongdoing, having a large amount of money is now considered suspicion, and they actually file against the money or property they steal, not the owner!

a reply to: MadLad

Patriot acts. Nice name, eh?

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: MadLad

You do NOT have to be guilty of wrongdoing, having a large amount of money is now considered suspicion, and they actually file against the money or property they steal, not the owner!

Then why would you want to give the government more power?

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

In what regard do you consider our personal liberty better than any other country in the world? Freedom of religion? Freedom of speech? Freedom of movement?

All of the above.

I’m sure we have plenty people on here from Canada. Britain. Norway. Germany. Etc. let’s ask them if they feel any less free than us. Come on all you sorry sack, European serfs and Canadian debt peons. Chime in here and tell us about your life in bondage, and how much you wished you were American!!

Canada here. I feel less free. As a recent example, the Trudeau government just gave police the power to order a breathalyzer without probable cause. This would violate America's 4th amendment.

When you driving in you car, so they damn well should, driving is not a right, if your suspected of drinking and driving you should be breathalysed.

But to be free from unreasonable search and seizure is a right.

Absolutely, although that is a right that is abused in the U. S with those seizure laws in place, don't worry though apparently that is so successful they are bringing it here to OZ.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

In what regard do you consider our personal liberty better than any other country in the world? Freedom of religion? Freedom of speech? Freedom of movement?

All of the above.

I’m sure we have plenty people on here from Canada. Britain. Norway. Germany. Etc. let’s ask them if they feel any less free than us. Come on all you sorry sack, European serfs and Canadian debt peons. Chime in here and tell us about your life in bondage, and how much you wished you were American!!

Canada here. I feel less free. As a recent example, the Trudeau government just gave police the power to order a breathalyzer without probable cause. This would violate America's 4th amendment.

When you driving in you car, so they damn well should, driving is not a right, if your suspected of drinking and driving you should be breathalysed.

But to be free from unreasonable search and seizure is a right.

Absolutely, although that is a right that is abused in the U. S with those seizure laws in place, don't worry though apparently that is so successful they are bringing it here to OZ.

Yes, it's successful in eroding human rights.

It reminds me of the Franklin quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

a reply to: MadLad

Yes it's a problem, one that is growing, as corporations gain more power our right will continue to erode.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: MadLad

Yes it's a problem, one that is growing, as corporations gain more power our right will continue to erode.

Which corporations take away your rights?

It’s not about giving the govt more power. It’s about taking the government back. Which corporations take away rights? Any company that’s a monopoly or oligopoly takes away our rights. The water companies take away our rights. Big media conglomerates take away our rights. Prison corporations take away our rights. The tsa takes away our rights.

originally posted by: pexx421
It’s not about giving the govt more power. It’s about taking the government back. Which corporations take away rights? Any company that’s a monopoly or oligopoly takes away our rights. The water companies take away our rights. Big media conglomerates take away our rights. Prison corporations take away our rights. The tsa takes away our rights.

You were lamenting deregulation in the original post. I just assumed regulation was more your style.

What rights do corporations take, and how?

originally posted by: pexx421

We now live in a financial canibalism neoliberal model where the largest profits come from stealing pensions, lowering wages and benefits, and forcing more work for less pay, and unless we all stand up to the corporate sector, in this very real class war, even we will descend to the conditions of the third world, with no minimum wages, sweat shop labors, and the dismantling of all working class and consumer protections which are their clearly stated end goal.

What about the 85% plus of the working population that work for companies that have less than 500 employees? Then you take the company I work for that Boeing owns and they pay extremely well. I get free healthcare, 401k, 25 days per year of PTO etc etc... I hire people at 80k per year too.

Yep there are crappy companies...don't work for them....

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421
It’s not about giving the govt more power. It’s about taking the government back. Which corporations take away rights? Any company that’s a monopoly or oligopoly takes away our rights. The water companies take away our rights. Big media conglomerates take away our rights. Prison corporations take away our rights. The tsa takes away our rights.

You were lamenting deregulation in the original post. I just assumed regulation was more your style.

What rights do corporations take, and how?

The words of FDR:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.


Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

It's quite simple even though you choose to ignore it. The lobbyist force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Money talks, everything you post about politics is BS. We know we have no free-markets because there's no mechanism to eliminate exorbitant CEO compensation packages.

Then the corporations infiltrate government institutions like the Bureau of Labor and Statistics so they can price fix wages. I am so sick of people like you who defend corporations. Despite the propaganda machine saying otherwise wages growth was flat:

Real Earnings Summary

"Real average hourly earnings increased 1.1 percent, seasonally adjusted, from December 2017 to
December 2018. The change in real average hourly earnings combined with no change in the average
workweek resulted in a 1.2-percent increase in real average weekly earnings over this period."

Unfortunately most Americans are completely math illiterate. A 1.2% increase may sound like a HUGE increase except if you take into account inflation:

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

It doesn't matter how much you make. It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. WHAT DOES MATTER is the purchasing power of your take home pay! In my lifetime, over the last 50 years, there's only been one 4 year period where the purchasing power of the dollar increased. And that was Bill Clinton's second term. If we had any representation in Congress, we would return tax laws and policies back to Bill Clinton's second term era. But instead we have billionaires getting representation by paying lobbyists to pass laws in their favor.

And big pharma takes away my rights big time. But here’s the primary right I have a problem with. I’m a worker. I do a job. It makes profit. Now I don’t have an issue with some taxes coming out of that. Well, actually I do, I don’t believe labor should be taxed, but that’s another issue. I don’t have a problem with a business taking a cut. What I have a problem with is the businesses cut getting bigger and bigger, while my cut gets smaller and smaller. I also have a problem with a whole bunch of middle men getting involved, and taking cuts, when they don’t even provide anything to the product I’m making.

See, by taking away more and more of my money, they are taking away more and more of my power and my rights. Because in the USA money is equal to power and money is equal to rights. So, there you have it. As businesses take more of the profit and productivity of our labor over time, which is happening by all standards, drastically, they are taking away our power and taking away our rights. And then they buy legislation with that stolen money and power, to encode that theft in law.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: MadLad

originally posted by: pexx421
It’s not about giving the govt more power. It’s about taking the government back. Which corporations take away rights? Any company that’s a monopoly or oligopoly takes away our rights. The water companies take away our rights. Big media conglomerates take away our rights. Prison corporations take away our rights. The tsa takes away our rights.

You were lamenting deregulation in the original post. I just assumed regulation was more your style.

What rights do corporations take, and how?

The words of FDR:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.


Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

It's quite simple even though you choose to ignore it. The lobbyist force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Money talks, everything you post about politics is BS. We know we have no free-markets because there's no mechanism to eliminate exorbitant CEO compensation packages.

Then the corporations infiltrate government institutions like the Bureau of Labor and Statistics so they can price fix wages. I am so sick of people like you who defend corporations. Despite the propaganda machine saying otherwise wages growth was flat:

Real Earnings Summary

"Real average hourly earnings increased 1.1 percent, seasonally adjusted, from December 2017 to
December 2018. The change in real average hourly earnings combined with no change in the average
workweek resulted in a 1.2-percent increase in real average weekly earnings over this period."

Unfortunately most Americans are completely math illiterate. A 1.2% increase may sound like a HUGE increase except if you take into account inflation:

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

It doesn't matter how much you make. It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. WHAT DOES MATTER is the purchasing power of your take home pay! In my lifetime, over the last 50 years, there's only been one 4 year period where the purchasing power of the dollar increased. And that was Bill Clinton's second term. If we had any representation in Congress, we would return tax laws and policies back to Bill Clinton's second term era. But instead we have billionaires getting representation by paying lobbyists to pass laws in their favor.

"Economic tyranny"? But no rights that you can mention.

The solution seems to me simple: Start a corporation and pay your employees well. I'd love to see you try it. Its at least more becoming than ceaselessly demanding it of others.

a reply to: MadLad

The right to collect rainwater? The right to hunt? The right to sell lemonade? The right to a fair trial? Look, let’s take, for example, the the right to smoke weed. It was taken away during the prohibition, and to this day we have prison companies using lobbyists to keep us from getting the right to smoke it if we chose, without going to jail. There are many and sundry ways corporations restrict our rights or force us to pay them for it. Water companies have taken away our right to collect rainwater. Corporations buy toll roads, which we paid to build with tax dollars, and they take away our right to use those roads unless we pay them hiked up rates. Big pharma has largely taken away my right to science based natural medicine by lobbying the fda to declare that “only a drug can cure a disease” and fighting to keep research from being fundible and useable in our medical system. They take away my rights to seek certain treatments by disallowing their use in the us. They take away my right to choose if I inject questionable vaccines or not. They take away my right to know what’s in my food. You may not appreciate these rights, but they’re all important to me.

Most of us here on ATS already knew that. The Coal/Oil/Automotive/Pharmaceutical/Food and Chemical industries control almost everyone in our congress and senate. They write the laws and policies.

a reply to: MadLad
Your solution is a fallacy. The point is that corporations rule the us, not the people. Starting some little corporation and paying my people well will not change that. At any rate, I am working to do just such a thing. Next week I plan to start hiring, and will be building a worker owned construction company. Everyone will get paid based off of productivity and level of responsibility. The model is to have only workers have shares, and they will have votes and effectively be the board. I’m fairly excited about it. I’ll be modeling it off of the other successful worker owned companies in the us.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: pexx421

We now live in a financial canibalism neoliberal model where the largest profits come from stealing pensions, lowering wages and benefits, and forcing more work for less pay, and unless we all stand up to the corporate sector, in this very real class war, even we will descend to the conditions of the third world, with no minimum wages, sweat shop labors, and the dismantling of all working class and consumer protections which are their clearly stated end goal.

What about the 85% plus of the working population that work for companies that have less than 500 employees? Then you take the company I work for that Boeing owns and they pay extremely well. I get free healthcare, 401k, 25 days per year of PTO etc etc... I hire people at 80k per year too.

Yep there are crappy companies...don't work for them....

Sometimes I don’t know if people are intentionally being obtuse, or just misread. The problem I discussed, and that this whole thread and all it’s discussions are about is not that some companies are crappy or low paying. That’s a nice separate issue. It’s that we live in a country where corporations control policy, unelected rulers who send our nation to war, suppress wages, restrict freedoms, etc. so, I’m very glad you work for a good company! Way to go! Your vote still doesn’t mean # when it goes against corporate profit. Did you vote on the wars in the Middle East? Did you vote on the bailout? On quantitative easing? On trade partnerships? On mega mergers, or net neutrality? On bank deregulation? No. And working at your good company hasn’t made your voice heard any more than mine. Cause we cant donate millions to campaigns.