Second Brexit Referendum, why we need it!

a reply to: Propagandalf

To let them decide if they want no deal or May's deal is everything but undemocratic.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf

ok fair point.

I just don't quite get how this has anything to do with a second vote.

Like why would you be against it what is the reason behind that?

It’s quite simple: the losers of a democratic vote can’t demand a revote because they lost.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Propagandalf

To let them decide if they want no deal or May's deal is everything but undemocratic.

That’s voting on a different issue entirely. We’re talking about second votes, not first ones.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If your current crop of elected representatives can't work out a deal to fulfill the will of the people.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to get new elected representatives who can work out a deal or no deal if that is in the people's best interest?

originally posted by: Propagandalf

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Propagandalf

ok fair point.

I just don't quite get how this has anything to do with a second vote.

Like why would you be against it what is the reason behind that?

It’s quite simple: the losers of a democratic vote can’t demand a revote because they lost.

Yeah but thats not what this is.

The government is unable to pass any kind of Brexit deal, that means the UK has to crash out with no-deal this would be a disaster for the UK.

The government cannot pass any laws to avoid this because parliament is now basically at a stand still.

As pointed out in the OP the UK people do not want a "No-deal" they are very much in the minority and there is growing public and political desire for a second vote.

Its got nothing to do with who lost and who didn't, even Nigel Farage has supported a second vote Link

a reply to: Propagandalf

We're talking about a people's vote to get out of that stalemate. No?

a reply to: watchitburn

Then wouldn't it make more sense to get new elected representatives who can work out a deal or no deal if that is in the people's best interest?

Again I covered this in the OP, there are lots of issues around parliamentary rules that mean this wouldn't really have much impact. Granted I don't go into it in any depth but the point is that a new PM wouldn't really make a difference and a General Election is unlikely to get passed either.

So while you're right in a ideal wold that would be best, right now thats not going to be the solution to the problem.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I see you have decided to ignore my post showing that what you stated was rubbish.

Did you read " The Brochure " before The Referendum?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I see you have decided to ignore my post showing that what you stated was rubbish.

Did you read " The Brochure " before The Referendum?

I can pick a chose what I respond to.

I still have my little brochure.

Doesn't really change anything though about the case for a second referendum.

Thats what this thread is about, am not really a fan of this debating tactic of taking one point in a thread of 2500 words and trying to manipulate it. I am more interested in debating the actual message behind the thread about the need for a second referendum thats what this is bout not some brochure sent out two years ago that most people probably put in the bin.

Now if you can explain to me why a second referendum is a bad idea then please go for it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you prepared to remove your remark " that nobody really knew what they were voting for " ?

Yes they did. And you know it.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you prepared to remove your remark " that nobody really knew what they were voting for " ?

Yes they did. And you know it.

Like I said am not looking to debate you on a single individual point like that. The use of the word "nobody" was probably generalising too much but its a 2500 OP I don't have a editor unfortunately to nitpick it to death nor do I want one.

I am trying to have a discussion about the case for a second referendum if you don't want to be part of that discussion then feel free not to comment.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you prepared to remove your remark " that nobody really knew what they were voting for " ?

Yes they did. And you know it.

Like I said am not looking to debate you on a single individual point like that. The use of the word "nobody" was probably generalising too much but its a 2500 OP I don't have a editor unfortunately to nitpick it to death nor do I want one.

I am trying to have a discussion about the case for a second referendum if you don't want to be part of that discussion then feel free not to comment.

There is zero case for a second referendum.

I hope that is clear.

First....please stop with the insult that those who voted to leave did not know what they were voting for. WE DID AND DO.
The majority of voters that voted to leave were of the older population who have watched our sovereignty being eroded away over the decades by Brussels. And looking to protect our future generations from a dictatorial federal state that is the EU.

Second....it is just your opinion that no deal would be bad for Britain, no matter how you try and dress it up to make those who do support a no deal rather than a bad deal as being totally incompetent to understand it. Do you not see that the EU are trying to make an example of the UK as a warning to other member states what will happen to them? Neither was the EU, in their arrogance, just like Cameron, prepared for the Brits to vote leave....so there was no preparation in place then any more than they are trying to bat out now!

Finally....and the main body of your post about a second referendum......we have already spoken and said out. Please don't go quoting the small percentage difference to me, there was an even smaller one for devolution for Wales, but the will of the people was respected and implemented. The people have therefore already spoken to their Government, and if that government is totally incapable of delivering on that (the fact most of the party and the one leading it are remainers)
then we just pack our bags and say cheerio. I am not going to get into the minuscule arguments and nit pick all the different aspects of this, other than to say Europe needs us for their exports than we need them.

We walk....and Brussels will soon talk...we have them by the proverbial short and curlies......there was never anything in place in the event of any of the member states deciding to leave in the first place...unchartered waters which the UK are very well adept at sailing

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you prepared to remove your remark " that nobody really knew what they were voting for " ?

Yes they did. And you know it.

Like I said am not looking to debate you on a single individual point like that. The use of the word "nobody" was probably generalising too much but its a 2500 OP I don't have a editor unfortunately to nitpick it to death nor do I want one.

I am trying to have a discussion about the case for a second referendum if you don't want to be part of that discussion then feel free not to comment.

There is zero case for a second referendum.

I hope that is clear.

Can you back that up please

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you prepared to remove your remark " that nobody really knew what they were voting for " ?

Yes they did. And you know it.

Like I said am not looking to debate you on a single individual point like that. The use of the word "nobody" was probably generalising too much but its a 2500 OP I don't have a editor unfortunately to nitpick it to death nor do I want one.

I am trying to have a discussion about the case for a second referendum if you don't want to be part of that discussion then feel free not to comment.

There is zero case for a second referendum.

I hope that is clear.

Can you back that up please

We had a referendum.

The result will be implemented.

Nothing else to add.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Propagandalf

We're talking about a people's vote to get out of that stalemate. No?

I’m not sure, to be honest. I’ve heard the “people’s vote” campaign was about deal vs no deal, a second referendum, etc. But so long as remain doesn’t return to the ballot, another referendum would be fine because it isn’t a second vote on the previous one.

a reply to: Propagandalf

That's how I understood it. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the decision was May's deal or no deal, as the other decision has already been made. We want to move forward not backwards right?

All your references say May ...might ....could. i would propose ...may not ...might not ...and could not. britain imports far more than it exports to the EU so it stands to reason that the EU will suffer more.
It will suck for a year and then get back to normal.

As for a second referendum...that would be like having a second election because one did not like the party who won.


As for me ..I need to short the £££.

a reply to: angelchemuel

First....please stop with the insult that those who voted to leave did not know what they were voting for. WE DID AND DO.

With respect not all of you did, the idea was going to be that a exit deal would be negotiated not that we would be leaving with a catastrophic no deal.

Second....it is just your opinion that no deal would be bad for Britain

Its not just mine though is it, there is lots of evidence that all points to a bad no-deal case. I think I said at the end of the OP that I would really like someone to present something that says no deal would be a good thing for this country. So far that has gone wanting, I have not seen a body of evidence that can demonstrate that the UK will be in a better position post no deal Brexit.

and the main body of your post about a second referendum......we have already spoken and said ou

By we I assume you mean the British people because you and I have not had this discussion. Forgive me if I am wrong on that.

When you look at all of the polling data it all shows a strong swing towards the British people wanting to remain in the EU. Now that might not be true for you personally or true for most of the people you know but when we use the most subjective polling measurements the results show that the will of the people has changed.

other than to say Europe needs us for their exports than we need them.

Thats actually not true.



If you can debunk this entire video then go for it but its a harsh reality, sure the EU would take a hit but its a hit that they could take, the UK can't just drop out and not face a massive ecconomic catastrophe.

a reply to: lakenheath24

All your references say May ...might ....could. i would propose ...may not ...might not ...and could not

Wrong most of them don't actually say that but I guess it sounds good.....

britain imports far more than it exports to the EU so it stands to reason that the EU will suffer more.

Wrong....

As for a second referendum...that would be like having a second election because one did not like the party who won.

Again...wrong a second referendum is nothing like a second election at least under the UK parliamentary system. Its apples and oranges.