Second Brexit Referendum, why we need it!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So basically the government can screw up anything they don't like to force a second vote and use fear to prevent the change people want.

It's your country, that wouldn't fly for me with America though.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Who the hell is this nobody TLDR that I should bother trying to debunk his/her video??? Again this is you and TLDR's view, but not mine.
The EU needs Great Britain to suffer from Brexit to prevent other countries from leaving the EU...it's that simple.
Polling data means diddly squat! They got it wrong with the actual referendum....hell's bells....they even got it wrong for the presidential elections over the Pond.
You see as the old saying goes "Empty vessels make most noise". So people who were in favour of Brexit kept their heads down, as did the people who supported Trump........we are the quiet majority.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Mays Brexit deal however if yesterday is anything to go by by then that’s not going to happen. It was so bad that in an unprecedented move she has cancelled the vote on it. However, the EU have said that the negotiation is done, and this is the best and only deal that the UK is going to get. The EU does not want to give the UK a good deal, sure it might hurt the EU a little for the UK to crash out with no-deal. The point though for the EU is that if they give the UK an easy exist then it starts to open up leaving the EU as an attractive possibility for other EU member states. The EU don’t want to make this easy for us and nor should they. So, May’s deal just isn’t going to pass, its not going to get any better so what next.

That right there should tell you that the EU does not have the best interests of the UK in mind.

If an abusive spouse tells you they will try to make your life miserable if you leave, you can rest assured that your life will be miserable if you stay.

Your choice seems to be between money and freedom. Which is more important to you?

a reply to: angelchemuel

You know you are saying quite a lot but am not seeing anything that actually refutes my argument that a second Brexit referendum is required.

It is a difference of opinion, which am fine with.

Although it would be nice to see you actually back up your views as I have backed mine up, show me how a no-deal Brexit can be avoided with out a second referendum or how it would be advantageous to the British people?

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

That right there should tell you that the EU does not have the best interests of the UK in mind.

Agreed they have the interests of the EU which is only logical and right.

I am not saying otherwise.

Isn’t it funny how democracy can be thrown out the door when the globalist don’t get the result they like?

originally posted by: Grambler
Isn’t it funny how democracy can be thrown out the door when the globalist don’t get the result they like?

Thats not what this is about.....

Did you read the OP the point is that the government is at a total grid-lock they are totally unable to deliver a Brexit deal so what is undemocratic about taking it back to the people?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: angelchemuel

You know you are saying quite a lot but am not seeing anything that actually refutes my argument that a second Brexit referendum is required.

It is a difference of opinion, which am fine with.

Although it would be nice to see you actually back up your views as I have backed mine up, show me how a no-deal Brexit can be avoided with out a second referendum or how it would be advantageous to the British people?

You are backing up your views with a 'nobody's' video and all sorts of other stuff.
I on the other hand do read and listen to others view points from both sides of the argument and just present MY OWN views. Yes, in an opening OP we need to show where we get our views and info from, but after that it is a free for all. Like I said I spent the 12 minutes of your 'nobody's' video and it did not change my mind one iota.

A second referendum just wont happen, end of...it's democracy, and if they went for that you would see the Gilet Jaunes on the streets of the UK.....simple.
Why should a no deal Brexit be avoided if, in the words of May a no deal is better than a bad deal?
She can't get the support of Parliament for her 'bad deal' so has gone back begging to EU today to get them to try and save her sorry arse. How humiliating to us as a country and an absolutely disgraceful way for a PM to behave towards fellow Parliamentarians.

To be honest, the whole process has turned into a debacle, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if she rips up Article 50 just to keep herself in power.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Grambler
Isn’t it funny how democracy can be thrown out the door when the globalist don’t get the result they like?

Thats not what this is about.....

Did you read the OP the point is that the government is at a total grid-lock they are totally unable to deliver a Brexit deal so what is undemocratic about taking it back to the people?

Because the people have already said they want out and it is that simple...out means out with or without an agreement. Then watch EU and Junker come running.

I'm fed up now with what has become blatant bullying tactics from EU, and people with no backbone to just give them the middle finger, and the likes of May, remainers and whiners, winging because it didn't go 'their' way.

a reply to: angelchemuel

I am kind of fed up with their bulling also but I understand it, they cannot give us a good deal they need to make this as painful for the UK as possible because if they don't in a few years time other EU states will be looking to leave.

I think we can both agree that Mays deal is bad.

The sticking point seems to be if no-deal is a good idea, I am of the view that it would be bad for the country, you seem to be of the belief that it would be good for the country. What I am asking is why you believe that?

All sides of the UK Govt didn't want to leave and they have dragged their feet every step of the way.

It's a shame that a vote of the people isn't respected and that the EU is being such D*cks about letting anyone leave their "free Union".

Both the EU and the UK Government has made this into such a crisis that the only alternative is to have yet another vote so the UK stays in the EU? That sounds like blackmail of the highest order. You are being played by TPTB.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yes, we do agree on much.

I think a no deal Brexit is very scary for people to face, but I believe we will come through a no deal....and a part of me says much stronger than a bad deal....certainly the deal that is on the table. The sky will not fall in chicken little


My roots are that we should never have joined way back in the '70's in the first place and as you can see my view point has never changed.

a reply to: pavil

All sides of the UK Govt didn't want to leave and they have dragged their feet every step of the way.

To be fair the members of the ERC have been strongly supporting of Brexit and so have others in government. Furthermore May has said that we wouldn't remain in the common market and has been pretty hard on Brexit the problem is that she just can't get a deal to pass.

It's a shame that a vote of the people isn't respected and that the EU is being such D*cks about letting anyone leave their "free Union".

Again they cannot give the UK a good deal, they just can't do it, not possible for them. Its not about them disrespecting the vote its about acting in the best interests of their remaining member states.

Both the EU and the UK Government has made this into such a crisis that the only alternative is to have yet another vote so the UK stays in the EU? That sounds like blackmail of the highest order. You are being played by TPTB.

I don't agree that its blackmail I think its just part of the unfortunate reality that you can't walk away without causing pain for the people of the UK. A second referendum would clean this up, if the vote still goes for a leave, even with no deal then thats what we have to do. Its a very democratic way of fixing the problem.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Thats fine but my issue is that I cannot see any benefits to no deal and as such we need to hold a second referendum to let the British people choose.

Its difficult for me to understand why anyone would want "no-deal"

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: angelchemuel

Thats fine but my issue is that I cannot see any benefits to no deal and as such we need to hold a second referendum to let the British people choose.

Its difficult for me to understand why anyone would want "no-deal"

That's totally fair enough.
In my pipe dream I would like to think she has gone off on her whistle stop tour to tell them all she will not get this deal through and therefore we will be walking without one.....that way the EU will have to come to us with cap in hand and not the other way around as it is now.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Do you accept though that, thats just a pipe dream and our options are now between a second referendum and no-deal Brexit?

Not wanting to be difficult just looking for some discussion.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I said it was a pipe dream....doh! Reminiscing over Maggie

No Our options are that Teresa comes back with some leeway from her jaunt and gets the deal through, or, as she has said, there will be no second referendum/people's vote....that would undermine our democracy.........so we quit with a no deal....or as I just said, she will revoke Article 50....which she will do at her peril

a reply to: angelchemuel

Would you personally support "no-deal"?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I thought I had made my position clear....yes I would, I cannot support the one that is on the table.
And I will be on the streets for the first time in my life in a high viz if they declare a second referendum.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Hmmm, I counted 5 "could's" in just the texts you quoted, much less the links. So maybe re-read those snippets you posted.
The word Could is subjective, not factual.


Hmmm, this chart states otherwise on the trade deficit with the EU. And my-oh-my. Look whos at the top of the chart in this link. Guess you have never been to an EU grocery store and seen the 2-300% markup on a jar of Marmite. Or noticed the complete absence of UK trucks more than 5 miles into Calais.

fullfact.org...

You know exactly what I am talking about in my last point....the people voted. Other people didn't like the outcome so they want another go at it. It would be EXACTLY the same as the losing side wanting another election.