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Macron delays Gas tax in response to French protests

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posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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French President Emmanuel Macron delayed a planned tax increase on fuel, handing a victory to a grass-roots protest movement that has massed across France to challenge his agenda.

Faced with another weekend of destructive protests by the “gilets jaunes”—or yellow vests—Prime Minister Édouard Philippe told a news conference Tuesday the tax hike would be pushed back six months. The worst riots to hit Paris in decades erupted during antigovernment protests Saturday, leaving the city’s shopping and tourist center dotted with burning cars and broken storefronts. Protesters vandalized the Arc de Triomphe, rattling Mr. Macron’s administration and the nation.


www.wsj.com...

SO there is a lot to say about this.

First on the gas tax; although I think there are other reasons for the protest as well, this seems to be a large part of it.

This shows what I have been concerned with for a while; why does all of the intelectuals efforst to solve climate change always mean the poor and middle class must suffer more? Do you really think the waelthy care that gas prices in France were over $7 a gallon? Of course not! But to the average worker that is crippling.

This is why climate change conversations need to occur, that discuss the impact, time frame, and severity of the problem, and equally discussing those about proposed solutions and how much of the problem those solutions will solve.

We see in the US call by Dems for a green new deal, and things like carbon tax that would drastically raise energy prices here. Perhaps France should be a warning about why that could end badly. But for many people, any disagreement with thes eproposed solutions means you deny science, hate the environment, and should be shut up. As long as that is the grounds the debate is on, nothing will be solved and situations like in France will continue.

Also, if Macrons tax was so important to save the world from Climate Change, why has he stalled it? Almsot like he knows that even without this tax, the world will go on. This seems to suggest to me that the alarmist rhetoric needs to be tamped down, and more gradual solutions need to be sought.

Now I know what people are thinking, of course a right winger like me wants to focus only on left wing climate change policies being the problem in France.

Well i dont. I think it is a mistake to assume that everyone is protesting for the same reason (though there does seem to be one theme as I will get to).

I admit to being woefully ignorant of much of whats going on in France, but I have read that Macron is seen as a President for the rich, cutting taxes and barriers for wealthy business people, and increasing the burden on the poor. These would largely be seen as right wing policies, so I am trying to be fair minded here.

Regardless of rather or not that is true, it certainly seems the perception is affecting some of the protestors.

I think the connection between all of the protestors is the idea that their government is no longer represnting the working class. I see this aall around the world, including the US.

It seems to me from an outsider perspective that Macron and his government is more concerned with the EU, migrants, and the wealthy than every day working French people.

This is similar in the US. I am a Republican (libertarian leaning) and that party has usually been the oparty of free markets and small government, which with foster capital that will lead to markets creating jobs.

The democrats were the party of the working people, and there to ensure that they had a voice in these free market world.

The democrats have totally abandoned the working class, and now cater to identity politics based on race and gender, and are the party of the very rich and poor.

So there is sort of a gap where no one is focusing on the working class. We can see that in issues such as illegal immigration, where republicans want cheap labor, and democrats want votes and demographic shifts.

So I think France is a good indicator of what could happen elsewhere around the world including the US if governments dont start working for their working class people.


edit on 4-12-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

What?

So you're saying we, the people, have the true power over government and not the opposite?

Well, I'm truly surprised this time.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:11 AM
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The big issue is a tax literally solves nothing. People still need to get to work. So still need the gas. Which means the only change is now people need to work more hours to pay for the gas. Which means second jobs etc. Which means no change on fuel being used. All that happens is more suffering and for what? Is there an explicite way this special tax is being used to specifically solve the supposed isue?
edit on 12/4/2018 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove


People still need to get to work. So still need the gas. Which means the only change is now people need to work more hours to pay for the gas. Which means second jobs etc. Which means no change on fuel being used.


Could actually mean more fuel is used if people are having to get a second job... Or get a job further away that pays more extending commute time.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

I grew up in that region and I think this is pretty darn accurate



It seems to me from an outsider perspective that Macron and his government is more concerned with the EU, migrants, and the wealthy than every day working French people.


Their overall tax burden is crippling.
time.com...


There are some huge protests going on, look up yellow vest protest
www.nytimes.com...


Some of the movement’s supporters say that if they were poorer, the government would help them with subsidies. But like the working poor in other Western countries, they are just above the poverty line, and unable to take advantage of government support.

edit on 4-12-2018 by JAGStorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:19 AM
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What does that tax money they collect REALLY go for? I guarantee it is going to a slush fund that will enrich the normal wealthy assholes thwt prey on the 99% of us.
edit on 2018/12/4 by Metallicus because: Sp



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

I was balncing that with people staying home instead of driving to friends houses as no one could afford a life anymore.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Exactly. It's like. Ok we have a problem I believe you, so what's you solution? "Give us your money." That's not a #ing solution!!!



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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Only suspended for six months. Just long enough to quieten the riots and move the problem until another time.

France is not really a reliable barometer for the state of civilisation. They are always rioting about one thing, or another. If it's not the price of fuel, it's pensions, English sheep (remember those riots), immigrants burning their own neighbourhoods, Uber, reform of labour laws. You name it, the French will riot for it!



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:28 AM
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Riots over higher fuel taxes?

Let them ride bikes and eat cake too.




posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Delayed for 6 months! The next Elections to the European Parliament are May 26 2019. That's not gonna fool anybody!


ETA: Good summary of the situation in France:

It's personal: What the yellow vests really want is Macron on his knees
edit on 4-12-2018 by MindBodySpiritComplex because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 09:38 AM
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The French people are anti-science?

Does it mean France doesn't believe in Global Warming? That could be why their admissions keep going up.

Did he really say, let them eat cake??



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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The people in Europe pushing this climate change agenda need to think more about it. The workers are being hurt, people who make the things and provide the services they need in their society. I am in agreement with the protesters on this, especially since the EU has created protection for the people who are creating the global warming scam. The taxes are not necessary, fixing polution issues are the proper way, like stopping the flying all over the place. But of course, these people want cheap airfare even though it is bad for the environment because they know tourist dollars help their economy. Particularly in the industries that associates of them have or those they feel that benefit their colleges.

The issue is real, their solution to the issue is wrong.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 10:59 AM
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Here is my video on the op, youtube was slow today




posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 11:00 AM
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The whole situation demonstrates why carbon taxes are not the solution. People won’t have to stop supporting themselves if a carbon tax is implemented. In France OR the US. Think Pelosi and the incoming House will understand that? Doubt it, since it appears their first drafted legislation after TDS related stuff is...wait for it...A CARBON TAX!!!



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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Once again this shows that Mainstream News Media is lying about whats really going in France.

They lied that protests were all about gas tax, when in fact its about something else and that is the very high cost of living, i would assume these kind of protests would happen lot more in very strong held Liberal areas in the near future.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Puppylove


People still need to get to work. So still need the gas. Which means the only change is now people need to work more hours to pay for the gas. Which means second jobs etc. Which means no change on fuel being used.


Could actually mean more fuel is used if people are having to get a second job... Or get a job further away that pays more extending commute time.


It would be hard to get a second job in rural France. You either get your baccalaureate and go to university, or you go to trade school for a couple of years, do an apprenticeship for another year or two, then become a plumber, joiner, car mechanic, carpenter, fireman, teacher, government worker, military person, supermarket manager. You can only work in the field you are qualified to do. Other jobs might be truck driver, taxi driver, restaurant owner or shop owner.

The French government were so concerned about how much fuel was being wasted by people making repeated trips to "decheteries" (recycling centers where you can dump old electronics, construction materials, garden waste) that they introduced a ticket scheme where you could only go there twelve times a year. So everyone just either burns their old bits of wood, cardboard and polystyrene foam or just let it sit around their backyard.

This whole carbon tax scheme and system is designed for one purpose - to transfer wealth from the developed world to the developing world. Simply handing money to third world African dictators is completely useless. The money never reaches the Africans at the bottom of the social ladder. So new schemes were developed - first is to bring Africans over to Europe, have them collect benefits or do some basic work. Either way they send money back to their families. The other way is to collect "carbon taxes" and send it to climate change relief programs organised by aid agencies. Guess where that money goes?



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Someone on ATS (not me) once said of these type of taxes. . . .


"It's to tax poor people of wealthy nations to pay wealthy people of poor nations".



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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When it comes to France, it's not really a riot until they pull out the guillotine.



posted on Dec, 4 2018 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Taxes don't change the climate. That's the big lie of leftist "environmentalism".
I'm all for cleaning up and protecting the environment as we can, in a rational way. I don't think anyone really wants our world to be a garbage pile.
Not as an authoritarian nwo money and control scheme, which will do nothing except take our liberty.
edit on 4-12-2018 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)




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