What is a "victim"?

a reply to: scojak

Just stop. The US has transitioned into a victim culture now. Stop adding to it.

This thread is a real example of it. You feel there is or should be a sleight somewhere, so you appeal to higher authority body in order to adjudicate it. You may not feel like a victim yourself, but you also a gain a kind of moral standing in today's society by claiming victimhood on behalf of others in bringing this to a higher authority to adjudicate.

It's a sick, twisted system all the way around and we're all locked into it. Thanks lefties.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

children were also forced to deal with tear gas.

Its a fact that this "caravan" is mostly men. Even fake news MSNBC says so.

dailycaller.com...

The few women and children were put out front to get filmed and photographed while the men hid in the back and threw rocks. Classic MSM propoganda, appealing to over emotional people which naive individuals such as yourself gobble up.

We know the border patrol set off the tear gas.

They were defending their agents from what was clearly an attack. And before you brush it off as "just some rocks".......

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Theres also stuff like this.

www.theepochtimes.com...

and also this....

truepundit.com...

So whatever, cling to your high horse soapbox so you can pretend to be better than everyone else.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Breakthestreak

Of what, like really? You work it out, oh that's right you're a psychopath that lacks empathy and no matter how many times it's explained would still not get it..

So a victimized person loses all personal agency forever after?

Great! It's good to know that none of my personal choices matter now because I've been both bullied extensively in life and sexually harassed. Guess I get to go out and murder whomever I want and It's not really my fault. Those long ago oppressors made me do it.

They stopped being victims the second they refused help from Mexico who was willing to take them in.

Is the equivent of offering food and shelter to a homeless person and having them tell you to eff off and then proceed to try and mug someone for money to get drugs but being fended off giving them a black eye and then calling them a victim because they were starving and homeless.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: scojak

No they are already victims, victims fleeing a place they are not safe, they are seeking safety not teargas.

If only there was a way to seek asylum, other than just breaking through a border...oh hang on there is. They just can't be arsed and instead do it en masse, invasion style. What could possibly go wrong?

They are not victims. I comment those that stay behind and try and make their crap country great again. Those that run like scared little rabbits with burned backsiddon't care about their country or life at all, they just want to enter another safe country as if it is a given right.

You didn't see Brits running around, breaking borders during WW1 or WW2, no they faught and they stayed and they rebuild, hat off. And I say that as a German whose dad was in the Army at the time of WW2.
Heroes they were.

Al the Syrian males and all these males that are legging it don't get much of my sympathy. The women and kids - yeah, they are not natural fighters, but the males? Nope, chicken-s hits, the lot of them.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: scojak

This thread is a real example of it. You feel there is or should be a sleight somewhere, so you appeal to higher authority body in order to adjudicate it. You may not feel like a victim yourself, but you also a gain a kind of moral standing in today's society by claiming victimhood on behalf of others in bringing this to a higher authority to adjudicate.
.

The new moral high ground *Virtue signalling*

a reply to: ketsuko

How did you garner all that about me from what I said?

I'm actually trying to put an end to the "victim culture". I want people to realize there is a difference between actually being victimized and basically being a victim of your own stupidity. Being a victim of your own stupidity does not make you a victim. Being forced into a situation you don't want to be in makes you a victim.

And I'm guessing you meant "slight'", not "sleight". Well, I pretty clearly stated that I would be fine having a word that better described the one who was victimized, which shows that I'm interested in relieving confusion, not insulting someone.

a reply to: scojak

Listen. I'm not blaming you or saying you feel slighted. I'm just saying that your thread is an example of what happens.

It used to be we dueled over our differences. Some might say the internet is kind of mass duel.

Then we grew out of that and taught ourselves to let little sleights run off our backs.

Now, instead of letting little sleights run off our backs we run off to the authorities like the tattletales you likely used to despise in school. "Ummmm, I'm telling ....!" And away they'd run to the teacher to gain approval by sucking up and claiming a sort of moral superiority. That's what we're seeing. People feel slighted so instead of just moving on and letting go, they run off to tell all about it to someone who can punish the wrongdoer in some way with shame or abrogation or something. Hence we see the boycotts, the people getting others fired, etc., over stupid stuff that happened years ago in some cases and sometimes not even to the people making a stink.

And the only way to go back is to either start letting people kill each other (duel) over slights, or to go back to telling people to get over it again and move on.

a reply to: scojak

I don't subscribe to the notion that both people are victims in a home invasion where the invader was on the receiving end of my firearm's bang seed. That is almost like saying that someone found guilty of a crime is a "victim" of the justice system.

See, when someone puts themselves in a situation where they are in the absolute wrong, and something bad happens to them because of their own actions, that's not victimhood, that's reaping the reward of their own poor life choices.

Same goes for many of these migrants at the border--if you get gassed or pelted with non-lethal rounds for trying to overrun our nation's borders, it is YOU who put yourself in that situation. The only victims in that scenario would be the children too young to make decisions for themselves, and unfortunately, there are many in that group--but they are not victims of the 'evil border patrol agents and Trump,' they are victims of their parents who decided on their behalf to place their children in that situation.

I would refer to it as "willful victimhood," akin to willful ignorance--when you have everything at your disposal not to make a poor decision, but do anyway and find yourself a "victim," you are a willful victim.

Better yet, a willful idiot.

And no, I'm not saying that every migrant old enough to choose to be there is an idiot, but I am saying that many/most are, because they should know that flooding the borders en masse and trying to get across through illegal channels or swarming the ports of entry is a perfect recipe for disaster.

And I feel terrible for the town of Tijuana right now and the havoc that these willful victims are wreaking on that town--they are basically bankrupting them, according to town's mayor.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: scojak


And the only way to go back is to either start letting people kill each other (duel) over slights, or to go back to telling people to get over it again and move on.

At least with the former, there was 50% less stupidity when all was said and done.

Yes, that's a joke in poor taste...everyone should just move on and let it go

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

I would hope you would care deeply for your children as I do mine, my empathy is on display, I don't like seeing people that are already so down and out being trodden on. As far as I'm concerned using migrants in peril as an excuse to score political points is sub human, I'm ashamed to be part of the human race when I see this crap unfold.

When Mexico offered them jobs and homes, and they declined in favor of hope to storm the border, did that change anything, or are you still clinging to their plight? Every day, honest people try to enter the country legally, and now they have to wait longer to have their cases heard, due to these "me firsters" jumping the line. Where I come from, that would get you and ass whippin from the line.

Certainly trying to break through the gates is not acceptable, there are protocols in place that should be followed . As far as being offered jobs and homes in Mexico I'm not sure they will be any better of than where they were.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
You are a victim of your own shortcomings.

Wow, don't you think that's a little inconsistent with your other words...

my empathy is on display, I don't like seeing people that are already so down and out being trodden on.

Oh well, I guess I can quote you again...

I'm ashamed to be part of the human race when I see this crap unfold.

Sorry that went straight over my head, can you please just get to the point of what you're saying.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Breakthestreak

Of what, like really? You work it out, oh that's right you're a psychopath that lacks empathy and no matter how many times it's explained would still not get it..

So a victimized person loses all personal agency forever after?

Great! It's good to know that none of my personal choices matter now because I've been both bullied extensively in life and sexually harassed. Guess I get to go out and murder whomever I want and It's not really my fault. Those long ago oppressors made me do it.

Are you safe in your own home ?

We have no real idea how bad it is for these people, what we do know is it's bad enough to leave everything behind and walk a long way to hopefully get somewhere better.

How bad would your life have to be to leave everything behind ?

a reply to: ketsuko

I understand what you are saying, but what I'm getting at is that the world "victim" carries too much weight for how ambiguous a term it is. Every person is constantly the victim of something. In every situation, every party can be a victim of something. There's just no rhyme or reason to it. As long as you can find a way you were wronged, you can call yourself a victim.

I think that's a bunch of BS and I'd like to have some semblance of logic in the whole thing. If you look at a situation where people on different sides are saying they are the victim, there is a logical way to determine who truly is a victim and who suffered due to their own free will, except there is no way to describe that person. It seems to me like there should be. I guess for now I'll refer to that person as a "true victim".

If you willingly do something knowing there will likely be a negative consequence, and you end up suffering that consequence, you are not a true victim. If you drive drunk and crash or get DUI, you are not a true victim. If you play the knife game and chop off your finger, you are not a true victim. If you instigate a fight with someone and get beat up, you are not a true victim. If you illegally cross into another country, especially after being warned you would be met with force, and get tear gassed, you sure as sh!t are not a true victim.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

So what if it isn't any better. Is not the job of the US to take in the rest of the world for simply not being the US. If you think it is, then perhaps it's time we go back to conquest, since apparently simply not being in the US is all it takes to be a victim now. Let's save everyone from their victim status and conquer the world so it can all be the US and everyone can be a US citizen.

a reply to: Puppylove

Are you saying these people are not persecuted?

I never said it was the job of the U. S but there are laws in place to deal with these things when they happen, are you suggesting the laws are discriminating against American people.?

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

No more than anyone else in their country. As such, if their country is so bad, and so is Mexico where they were offered refuge, that we should pity them and give them homes here, then perhaps it's time we start consider ending these nations and making them the US and removing the places so bad just living there makes them victims.

a reply to: Puppylove

What the solution, lobby to change the laws? Help fix the problems so they don't feel the need to leave in the first place, I don't know, I do know that this is a big mess that's not going away anytime soon.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Force the people there to either deal with their situation and rise up to fix it by giving them no outs OR force change by taking over the country ourselves.

What does not fix things is destroying our country as well by allowing infinite illegal immigration. All that will result in is no decent places anywhere. If you don't want to send our people to war and get involved in conquering other nations I suggest the first option.

a reply to: Puppylove

There isn't infinite immigration and do really believe a few thousand immigrants from central America will have that much negative affect on a country of 300 million ?

I'm not sure I understand your comment about sending people off to war, you guys are already off plundering other nations under the guise humanitarian aid, why would these migrants change that?