NTS You were washed (in the name of Christ)

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
You do know that no one is washed in the name of Jesus Christ, don't you?

We are cleansed by the word and we have the washing of regeneration but no where are we washed in the name of Jesus.

I refer you to the text quoted at the top of the OP;
“Such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and in the Spirit of our God” – 1 Corinthians ch6 v11
("Sanctified" and "justified" will be covered in the following weeks)

a reply to: DISRAELI

I did read it all pages of it. The point being you make the scriptures appear to apply to all men and your gospel presentation is written to appear to cover all men without faith. You blend the words "faith" and "belief" as if they are the same words. And you make "wash" as if it is something a man is to do once saved. While yet not seeing that no one in this age is cleansed by anything other than Gods words.

I like your work, you do seem to take some time. Maybe to much reading on what other men say rather than what the Bible says. I see and know what you are trying to say but you miss it. If anything I am trying to give you helpful criticism with an open rebuke, if accepted you will be the better for it. But if rejected you will never attain anything above that of Scholars who have already gone before you. Right now most of your work is at the level of Ellen G. White. You would do best not to interpret Scripture but simply explain it. For the most part your work is not clear enough to allow an unsaved person be get saved in this age under the correct Gospel. the only logical use for your work at this point is filling men's heads with knowledge and no applicable truth in this age.

Go back reread your work, rewrite it where it needs and make it better/clearer for those who are unsaved and not a work to be followed for the saved. Remember, that all is competed in us in Christ already. We are only to show forth the newness of life we already have in Christ. I get the Pastor at my church with it all the time, he sees it and accepts the criticism, he is younger than I, and he has grown from the criticism he has received of me. He has even said as much. He is stronger in the word and in the inspired preserved English of the AV1611.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
And you make "wash" as if it is something a man is to do once saved.

No, I do not. From the closing paragraphs of the OP;

The picture of being “washed” by means of the death of Christ is a way of describing what has been accomplished.
It means that the problem of sin has been dealt with, to the same effect as if it had been physically removed.

The problem is that you are reading carelessly, too quick to rush to judgement, too instinctively hostile to what any other Christian is doing.

Have you noticed that I have also answered your point about "nobody is washed in the name of Jesus"? Again, it would not have taken much care and attention to recognise the expression as a quotation from the Biblical text quoted in the first line.
You are not always quick to understand the meaning of the English language, as I have pointed out before, and that is another reason why it behoves you to be more careful in your reading before you rush to judgement.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Read your closing OP again, your statement "were all made complete at the same time" This is such a blanket statment with no added clarification that an unsaved would not accept that to men themselves, what you have done in the whole first two pages of the OP was to make people feel comfortable to accept your thesis on the subject of the verse at hand, with no real clear (meaning it is obscured) separation of who is saved and who is not, so when you gt to statements like the one above they automatically assume the are part of the "we all. . ." This is the same mistakes DL Moody, AT Robertson, Pink and many other "Scholars" have made in their writings since the 1880's. This is why I suggested you are the same sort of scholar as they were. I'd like to see you pull yourself out of that pack

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

It is that I am carelessly reading, it is exactly what I am reading that has concerned me with your writings, and as a brother of Christ (if you are saved) it is my duty to follow the scriptures in giving you scriptures (I have) that you maybe fully furnished unto all good works, so you can correct your unbeknownst mistakes. I am sure you are not purposely making people feel comfortable enough to apply the "we all. . . " to themselves without Faith alone on Christ.

2Tim 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2Ti 2:14-16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Eph 5:14-16 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
2Tim 1:13-14 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
1Cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Cor 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

It is not taught much anymore how our salvation is complete and it should be understood as completed in Christ, from beginning to end at the moment of our faith on Christ. When this is properly taught and has been properly grasped by those professing Faith on Christ, then no works of washing, cleansing or good works that add to ones already completed Salvation, Sanctification, Justification, Righteousness et al, they begin to walk in newness of life without striving too. Our teaching should be limited to explaining the scriptures clearly (not interpreting) enough that they never get the idea that there is anything they need to do to add to that finished work of Christ, at any time since their own personal salvation. I will never forget the date I had faith on Christ finished work for me personally March 14, 1993.

1Cor 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I apologize if I have not seen it in your writings or that in some way I am missing the clear point in your writings. But I doubt that I have missed it in most of your work. I have even reread some of your post in the past just to see if I had missed it. Some of those who given you kudo's for a job well done are not even saved. I do find it hard for an unsaved man to understand the intricacies of doctrine for the saved. Until salvation they cannot understand, the only message they have to understand before getting the mind of Christ is the Gospel of the Grace of God. Until that mind is in them they only understand with their flesh which is a bad way to see the scriptures.

1Cor 2:11-16 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Php 1:27 ¶ Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Be at peace and take to heed those things I have tried to share. I mean not insult only brotherly instruction and correction. Shalom.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
What I am doing is spreading out the message over several threads, one point at a time, so that each separate point can have a detailed explanation.
What you are doing is looking at a thread devoted to one point, and complaining that it doesn't cover all the others.
The question of WHO is saved and how was covered in thread no.9 a couple of weeks back; "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".
This particular group of threads, between "Blessed are those whose sins are forgiven" and the future "You were justified in the name of Christ", is about the different N.T. expressions of the chief benefit of being saved, viz. not being held away from God by the state of sin.
I've already told you that the question of "what the believer has to do" begins to be tackled a little further down the road.
So this thread is doing exactly the job it was designed to do; it is covering one particular stage of the argument.

It is necessary to work like this because non-believers are no longer convinced by trotting out the usual jargon. As an ex-atheist, I know this from experience.
So this series is about re-stating the case with explanations, building it up stage by stage.
The most ambitious part of the series will be a fresh re-statement of the way the death of Christ atones for sin, which will come in the weeks just before Christmas.
This is the most important thing I have done or will do on ATS, and the first draft of probably the most important thing I will do in my life. It may be the purpose that God had in mind when he brought me to Christ in June 1972.

The key to your line of criticism is that you haven't yet seen this bigger picture.That's why you keep harping on the apparent omission of specific points which are being covered in earlier or later threads.
And I must repeat that you read hastily. Just one example, for evidence; your objection to the phrase "washed in the name of Jesus". This gave away the fact that your eye had not rested on the first line of the OP long enough to notice that the phrase came directly from the New Testament text.
It gives the impression that you just charge in looking for things to criticise, and don't take time to understand what is going on.

If I were really being blunt and brutal, I could dwell on the flaws in your own approach, which undermine your stance as a fount of godly wisdom. (Just one example again; a humbler man than you would have acknowledged being wrong about "washed in the name of Jesus"). Don't drive me to that. Just come down off your high horse and stop coming at me as "one having authority".

a reply to: DISRAELI

More like hidden the truth over a few messages is like finding a needle in a haystack. You fail to study, you fail to rightly divide and you failed to teach by comparing spiritual to spiritual that is why it is not better than any so called scholar since 1880.

You will bring a rebuke and not a reword to your head at the judgement seat of Christ if you are saved at all. If your claim to salvation came in the manner of the way your presented it, I doubt our salvation.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
This debate is developing in an unworthy direction.
For myself, I will call a halt.

The most recent thread in this series is;
You were baptised into the death of Christ

a reply to: DISRAELI

I want to thank you for your work here. You've really put the time into this and found a great platform for doing Gods work. Looking forward to more NTS posts.

a reply to: Theocrat
Thank you. If you check my recent profile, you will see 18 NTS threads already on view (and a further 6 to come).

a reply to: DISRAELI

It just came to its conclusion as it should. do you know Christ as you personal Lord and Saviour?

I have actually read just about all your writings . Even your "Caffeine Addicted Student of History" Even though you have been registered here since 2010, I have read your works back to 2012 that is as far back as you writings go (if there were some before that they are not listed any longer). And in all the writings of yours only one do you clearly say your are a Christian. But in none do you give a testimony as to how you became a Christian.

You must understand your testimony is not your own it is Christ Glory, and not to share it with others is to hide the light under a bushel or a bed. So I would encourage you to share you personal testimony as to how you came to be a Christian. But by your writings one can only conclude you are a legalist, trying to follow commandments and count on good works to show you are a Christian which takes away from the glory of Christ and that building will be burned with fire tried as silver in a furnace of earth. It is not that we should not have good works, they usually follow a true conversion but they are not done with purpose, but rather they are more of a natural occurrence because of Christ in us. It is his glory shining through, it is a gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast.

I am not saying you are not a Christian so I look forward to reading your testimony. It shall show the fruit of Christ in and of itself that your writings do not, and in that I will rejoice with you. If they do not show forth the good works of Christ then you may not be saved, and that is the conclusion, the only conclusion you should be concerned with for the moment. You have had hundreds of Writings here at ATS that you have concerned yourself with, but none of them really reflect Christ in you for they are not interlaced with that act of one being Baptized into Christ. I like the Book, the AV1611, am 75% negative and 25% positive.

I hope you hear with ears that hears, for there are many that are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. With the Volumes you have written I would pray they would be to your reward.

Grace and peace be unto thee.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
But in none do you give a testimony as to how you became a Christian.
... So I would encourage you to share you personal testimony as to how you came to be a Christian.

I refer you to How an atheist became a Christian from May 27th 2012

But by your writings one can only conclude you are a legalist, trying to follow commandments and count on good works

Leaving aside the other material, I don't understand how anyone could honestly take that conclusion out of the NTS threads. In the period down to Christmas, I have been focussing, firstly, on what has been done by Christ, and, secondly, on our own access by faith to what Christ has done. The whole thing was summed up in the Christmas thread For he shall save his people from their sins. I have deliberately left all issues of "Christian behaviour" to the New Year, because the New Testament gives them in that order- faith coming first, in order of time, and then "works" following on from faith.

they are more of a natural occurrence because of Christ in us.

I think that is just about what my next thread says, as already foreshadowed by one of the paragraphs of "If Christ is in you".
These threads were written in good faith, and they need to be read in good faith.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Just Quick thank you I hope this answers all my queries. And please remember I judge all writings, yours, mine and others by the AV1611.

Just off the top of my head on your last post. "He shall save his people from their sins". That is Israel not a gentile. Unless of course you hold tot he unBiblical doctrines of the Calvinist, which basically says God chose some and didn't choose others.

Gentiles were up until the time of Paul strangers to the ordinances and covenants of God.

I stared you on this one. I am trying my best to read them all in good faith.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
Just off the top of my head on your last post. "He shall save his people from their sins". That is Israel not a gentile.

My understanding of "God's people Israel" includes the Gentile followers of Christ.
That is in line with Paul's definition; "Neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Peace and mercy be upon ALL who walk by this rule, [that is] upon the Israel of God" (Galatians ch6 vv15-16).
For if you and I are men of faith, like Abraham, then Abraham is our father (Galatians ch3 v7)
There is one people of God, combining Jew and Gentile (Galatians ch3 v28), and Christ saves that whole people from their sins.

a reply to: DISRAELI

To put Gentiles in to

Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

is to 1) ignore the historical context of the verse. And t 2) to ignore the instruction to rightly divide the word of truth of the pre-Cross and pre-Salvation unto the Gentiles. The gospel in Matthew is pre-cross, it is to Israel only and it is what John the Baptist and Christ later will preach, the Gospel of the Kingdom.

I know you think I am wrong, but we err in blending the Kingdom Gospel ad the Gospel of the Grace of God. I came out of seminary with a ThD and the same idea on the gospel. It was an act of God as I continued my quest for his truth that led me to see by the Holy Ghost that those two Gospels are different not one and the same. I can only point you n the right direction but I can't make you see the truth of this manner. It will be the stubble that is burned away at of our works as we stand at the Judgement seat of Christ 1 Cor 3:11-15 (and that is not the one in Rev 20:11-15).

It is nice to look back at scriptures and say oh "his People" in Matt 1:21 means the Gentiles. We can make s many nice messages and I did by making the gospels in the Books of Matt-through John the same as the one presented by Paul and the one being preached by an Angel in Rev 14:6. It is part of a greater falsehood I had when coming out of Seminary that men in the old testament are looking forward to the Cross, when in fact they were not, and that men in the Tribulation will be looking back to it and trying to get saved by grace when they can't.

My only suggestion is to get an AV1611, and sit down with it, not in judgement of it, or to prove something, but just come to it and asking God o show you some knew truth. When I did that God opened my eyes and over the next year after getting the AV1611 I was fully convinced of the AV1611 being the Inspired preserved English Bible and one of many other doctrines that there are tree distinct Gospels presented in the New Testaments. and the only way to put them right was to rightly divide the word of Truth.

It is my only explanation for why I see so much of the same error I taught in your teachings, and my desire to help you so you wont loose so much in the testing of our works in Christ. Having less to burn away at the judgement seat of Christ means he comes with more rewards for us to lay at his feet.

Be Blessed.

a reply to: DISRAELI

May I suggest one book, "One Book Rightly Divided" by Doug Staufer. Available online.