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Prophecy of seventy weeks

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posted on Oct, 3 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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Can anybody in plain English explain to me the prophecy that the Angel Gabriel gave to Daniel? Additional Marks will be given to those that can help explain as to how this relates to the application of the Calendar of Enoch




posted on Oct, 3 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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Yep, cool thread topic brother....
First premises is a week is 7 years.....or other counts, but the other counts all line up in the end.....

Like time is divided in Scripture into 7 groups of a thousand years......
edit on 3-10-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION

edit on 3-10-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION

edit on 3-10-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION



posted on Oct, 3 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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The “seventy” puzzle really begins with the prophecies of Jeremiah, who warned the people that God would send the Babylonians against them;
“… these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed I shall punish the king of Babylon…”- Jeremiah ch25 vv11-14.
After the first group had been taken into exile, Jeremiah sent them a further promise;
“For thus says the Lord; When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you and I will fulfil to you my promise and bring you back in this place.”- Jeremiah ch2 v10

Clearly, this term is meant to apply to the period between the fall of Jerusalem and the fall of Babylon.
However, history records the first event in 587 B.C., and the second in 539 B.C.
Nobody could complain here that God was slow to keep his promise.
But this teaches an important lesson about the interpretation of prophecy.
Unless we choose to believe that Jeremiah got it wrong, we have to accept that the reference to “seventy years” was NOT meant as a literal time interval.
The real meaning is to be found in the symbolism of the numbers.
“7” is the number that belongs to God, because of the seven days in the Creation story.
“10” is the number which represents “completeness”.
Therefore the period of “seventy years”, which multiplies the two numbers together, holds the symbolic meaning “the completeness of the time that belongs to God”.

The next phase comes in Daniel ch9. Daniel reads these prophecies in Jeremiah, and perceives that seventy years are to pass “before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem”.
There follows the long prayer, and then the interpretation supplied by Gabriel, which explains the prophecy in terms of “seventy weeks of years”.
The “weeks” have been broken up into three distinct periods.
But the way that Jeremiah’s prophecy was fulfilled shows the risk in trying to match them with exactly calculated intervals of time.
We need first to look to the symbolism of the numbers.

They are dominated by the “7”, the number of God.
The closing period is one “7”- because even a ruler who sets himself against God rules only for the term that God allows him.
The opening period is “7” multiplied by “7”, so it belongs to God in a more particular way.
The overall period of “seventy weeks” would have the same meaning as the “seventy years”.
Finally, the intervening period, the “sixty-two weeks”, is simply what remains from the seventy once the other two periods have been deducted.

A number of events are distributed through these weeks.
At the beginning of the seventy weeks, an order to restore and build Jerusalem.
At the end of the seven weeks, an “anointed one”, a prince.
For the whole of the sixty-two weeks, Jerusalem stands established, but “in a troubled time”.
At the end of the sixty two weeks, an “anointed one” is cut off.
At the same time, the city and sanctuary are destroyed by the people of “the prince who is to come”.
In the last week he makes covenant with many, and in the middle of that week he ends the sacrifice and brings the “desolation”.

There’s much dispute about how to match them to the events of history.

There’s the approach which might be called “historical-critical”.
The first “anointed one” is identified with Cyrus, on the basis that he’s called “anointed” in Isaiah ch45 v1.
The “anointed one who is cut off” is identified with the High Priest Onias, who was murdered early in the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes. There seems to be another reference to his death in ch11 v22, where he appears as the broken “prince of the covenant”.
The last week is identified with Antiochus Epiphanes, who set up the image of Jupiter Capitolinus in the Temple (“the abomination”) and thereby ended the practice of sacrifice to the God of Israel (“the desolation”).

This theory is attractive to anyone who knows the history, but contains a couple of weaknesses.
Cyrus is placed after the order for the rebuilding of the city, which seems to put them in the wrong order.
One way to escape this anomaly is to make the “seventy weeks” begin with Jerusalem’s fall to the Babylonians, on the basis that God’s command for the re-building of the city was privately issued at that time.
We should also consider the possibility that the first “anointed one” is another in the line of High Priests.
For if the High Priest Onias can be called “prince of the covenant”, then the word “prince” need not mean a secular ruler.
A good candidate would seem to be the High Priest Joshua, who helped to preside over the foundation of the Temple (Haggai ch1).
Then the “seven weeks” would represent the time of preparation for the new Temple, following on naturally from the command to rebuild.
The other weakness of this historical theory is that it does nothing to account for the destruction of the city and sanctuary even before the final week starts.

The frequent Christian interpretation is to identify Christ as the “anointed one who is cut off”, and to identify the destruction of the city and sanctuary with what happened in A.D. 70.
The Futurist version of this approach, recognising that the final week is at least modelled upon Antiochus Epiphanes, assigns that week to an end-time ruler who treats the Biblical God and his people in much the same way.
Of course the major weakness in that theory is the un-filled space between the end of the sixty-ninth week and the beginning of the seventieth.
I’m willing to see possible gaps at other points in Daniel, but in this case the existence of the over-arching “seventy weeks” label makes it rather awkward.

I also came across a Preterist interpretation.
The writer agreed with the Futurists that Christ was the second anointed one, and that the destruction of the city came with Titus.
He then identified the final week with the life and work of Jesus, including his crucifixion.
The major weakness of this theory was that the death of Christ was happening twice over, at the end of the sixty-ninth week (“anointed one cut off”), but also in the middle of the next one ( which was how he “caused sacrifice to cease”).
Because of this duplication, one of those two deaths was occurring after the city had been destroyed.
So after mocking the Futurists for breaking up the continuity of the “seventy weeks”, the writer was mangling the order of events to make them fit his own analysis.

Another approach is to start at the end of the seventy weeks and work backwards.
We can’t ignore the resemblance of the final week to the work of Antiochus- the resemblance is too close to allow a “benevolent” interpretation.
In which case we should accept the assumption that this refers to a later king of the same kind.
Then we would now be living in the sixty-two weeks since the appearance of Christ as the first anointed one.
This would be the church as a “new Jerusalem”, established in a “troubled time”.
This theory has the advantage that the intervals are at least in the right proportion.
It does imply a further destruction of Jerusalem just before the last ruler comes to power.
But it also implies a second anointed one, who is cut off at the same time.
This looks like a weakness , because there is no New Testament warrant for such a figure.
I’m not a Catholic, so it really goes against the grain to take the obvious Catholic line and make this a “last Pope”.

So that is how I come to the conclusion that I still don’t have an acceptable answer to the puzzle of “seventy weeks”.



posted on Oct, 3 2018 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI
P.S. The above post is the explanation I offered in a thread twelve months ago, entitled "The unsolved puzzle of the seventy weeks". So, for what it is worth...



posted on Oct, 4 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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I would try and explain it to you but then none would accept it. So go on with all your postulations.

I will give you one hint, try taking it Literally instead of Allegorically. In do this you would have to wait until something takes place first, they it literally falls into place.



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Well, let me take a crack at it here. Per the prophecy the 490 years of the prophecy was broken up into three time periods. The 7 weeks or 49 year period. Then the 62 week period or 434 years. And then the 1 week period or 7 years. The first two periods of time have concluded. Put simply the 69th week ended in the first century AD. But now what about the 70th? Hasn't happened yet. And here's why. Unfinished business.

In the book of Hosea there is a prophecy called the day of Jezreel prophecy. It predicts that Israel and Judah were to face a long term Leviticus 26 curse. But then in verse 6-2 the prophecy gives us a time line for the curse and the day of Jezreel. 2 days in the presence of the Lord for the curse and the 3rd day being the day of Jezreel. And here's the rub. Per Psalms 90 and 2nd Peter 3-8 those days are thousand years of time. The curse mentioned is 2000 years long! Followed by a thousand year day of Jezreel. And that is why the 70th week is a future event. It occurs at the end of the 2000 years. And it's end starts the day of Jezreel.

Now the question would be why the curse? And the answer to that is at the end of the book of Malachi. The prophet Elijah was supposed to be present before the day of the Lord. And he was. BUT. There was a problem. Per Jesus Christ his John the Baptist was Elijah the Prophet. But he was killed by Herod at the request of Salome and her mother. The daughter and granddaughter of the High Priest. What they did was they triggered the day of Jezreel curse. And that act delayed the redemption of Israel for 2000 years. Triggering the need for Christianity.

As for the 2nd anointed one I would propose this. Per the book of Zechariah there is supposed to be 2 Branches. The 2 companions of the Lord who are also the 2 witnesses of Revelation. So for a 2nd Temple there has to be a 2nd branch to build it. I propose he is the one cut off. And comes back later with the other Branch to be the Witnesses of Revelation.



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 03:39 AM
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a reply to: ntech
I can only see one Branch in Zechariah, but they announce him twice.
In ch3 v8, the angel speaks to Joshua the high priest and says "I will bring my servant the Branch" (hinting, in the first instance, at Zerubbabel the Davidic prince).
In ch6 v12 the Lord of Hosts is speaking TO Joshua the high priest, and tellling HIM to behold "the man whose name is Branch", and who will build the Temple. The Branch is not the priest, because the priest is doing the beholding, and because the Branch will sit on a throne and have the priest standing by his throne (v13). All this points to Zerubbabel again.

I think the key to the historical story is that Joshua has been misbehaving himself (ch3), which means not co-operating with God and Zerubbabel in the re-building.



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI
I am going to put my hands up and plead ignorance as your combined knowledge far exceeds my own but I would like to ask you both a question. Basing this notion on the work of John Pratt who wrote a very interesting paper on Sir Isacc Newton's date for Crucifixion
www.johnpratt.com...
I was wondering could you take the same approach and apply the idea of taking the Enochian Calender and applying it to the Propechy of Daniel. What would happen of we applied the Enochian year, based on weeks to solve Daniels "Week of Years?"
I am currently reading alot of stuff in relation to this so my head is in a bit of a spin, but it's an interesting angle



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: DpatC
I tried your link and got "page not found".
But in any case my knowledge doesn't extend to Enoch, so I wouldn't be able to apply his calendar system.



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Thats a fair and honest comment.Hopefully once I get my head around a few concpets I should be able to extrapilate further on this notion
This link should work
www.johnpratt.com...



posted on Oct, 5 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: DpatC

Okay Im borrowing heavly from the paper that Joseph B Lumpkin wrote on the calendar of Enoch and the prophecy of Enoch here but I would love to hear other thoughts on the below as this has my mind in a compleate spin

Daniels prophecy is spoken of as 70 weeks, but it is understood that the weeks are actually

years. Thus the week of 70 years is a time span of 490 years. Now the question becomes what

kind of years? Are these lunar years, solar years or another type of year? Each type of

year has a different length and over a period of 490 years the accumlative differences

become significant.

If we assume Daniel is speaking of a time period that begings with a ruler making peace

with the jews and ending with the bringing of everylasting righteousness?

SO what would happen if we applied the Enochian year,based on weeks, to solve Daniels week

of years.

The portion of the Book of Enoch referred to as the Book of Astronomy is dated to the

fourth to third century BC.(note: Ref crossover of Enoch and Sumerian text) The book

contains descriptions of the movement of heavenly bodies. The book describes a solar

calendar that was later described in the Book of Jubilees. Jews of that time used a lunar

based calendar. The use of this calendar made it impossibile to celebrate the festivals

simultaneously with those in the temple of Jerusalem.

The year was composed of 364 days,divided in 4 seasons of 91 days each. Each season was

composed of three equal months of 30days, plus an extra day at the end of the third month.

The whole year was composed of exactly 52 weeksm abd every calendar day occurred always on

the same day of the week. There is debate as to which day of the year the calendar started

in each year. Some say it was a Wednesday which was the 4th day of creation - Let there be

LIGHT. Others claim the calender begins on A Sunday, the first day of the week. This is key

to reconcile this calender with the exact 365.24219 days they added a week every few years,

in order to have the week start on a Wednesday or Sunday, dependant on who was writing.

For Daniel lets assume the calendar begins on a Sunday. Since the calendar of Enoch is

based on weeks it begins every year on a Sunday, and adds a week of days when needed to

keep the the first day of the year as near to the spring equinox (21/22nd) March as

possibile

Xerxes (Angel -fallen ref sumerian text) otherwise known as Artaxerxes made a pact. The

"King" agreed the release of the jews and permitted them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild

the city

Daniel 9 Kings james version

www.biblegateway.com...

In the year 458BC the first day of the Enochian year fell on Sunday 21st March,the spring

equinox. On Sat 3rd Apr 458 BC,the 14th day of the first month (14 Spring) which is

Passover on that calendar, Ezra and the jews departed Babylon and headed for Jerusalem

Ezra 7
www.biblegateway.com...

The day of the Crucifixion (Friday 1st April Ad 33 - need to double check this) was the day

preceding Passover on the Enoch Calendar. Passover always falls on a Saturday on the Enoch

Calendar. The Friday Crucifixion compleated 490 years to the very day on the Enoch

Calendar,because the 491st year would have begun on Passover 2 Apr Ad 33. There is no year

zero. The calendar goes from 1 B.C to 1 A.D

Thus the interval from Ezra's departure to rebuild Jerusalem to the date Christ died was 7

x 70 or 490 years according to the calendar of Enoch



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Looking at Zechariah I see these verses.

Chap 4.

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Chap 6.

12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Oh, And Revelation 11

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

There's two of them. Anointed ones to boot.



posted on Oct, 6 2018 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: ntech
I agree with two anointed ones. The implication of Zechariah is "the king and the high priest" (i.e originally Zerubbabel and Joshua). In Revelation, I believe it's relevant that the saints are "a kingdom and priests".
I just think that only one of the anointed ones is called "Branch". Because on both occasions when God says "here is the Branch" or "Behold the Branch", he is talking TO Joshua, and therefore talking about someone else.
The priest is not a Branch. He is a man being told to behold a Branch. There is one Branch (the prince/king), one Temple being built.




edit on 6-10-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2018 @ 01:57 AM
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originally posted by: DpatC
Can anybody in plain English explain to me the prophecy that the Angel Gabriel gave to Daniel? Additional Marks will be given to those that can help explain as to how this relates to the application of the Calendar of Enoch


I don't feel like writing a big long explanation again so I will just leave this




posted on Oct, 8 2018 @ 07:21 AM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

originally posted by: DpatC
Can anybody in plain English explain to me the prophecy that the Angel Gabriel gave to Daniel? Additional Marks will be given to those that can help explain as to how this relates to the application of the Calendar of Enoch


I don't feel like writing a big long explanation again so I will just leave this



So you would agree that the calendar of Enoch is the only calendar that fits the prophecy of Daniel without any manipulations. Is that by design or coincidence? Yes or No.Your guess is as good as mine

I can extrapilate on the above if you wish me to

With all this talk of Angels I can't help but think of Mary Gauthier and the Wheel Inside The Wheel The parade of souls march across the sky

www.youtube.com...
edit on 8-10-2018 by DpatC because: (no reason given)




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