When Humans Die

Since consciousness is an emergent property of recognition dynamics - or the symmetry of self and other - it stands to reason that when we die, the only thing which matters in terms of 'what becomes of our sense of being' probably has something to do with symmetry.

Watching the farce that is the funeral of John McCain, and in particular, to be perfectly honest, I've just been triggered by an absurd article by Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post which calls McCain a human rights champion; to boot, and in the background of the main pic is the Ukranian neo-Nazi leader Oleh Tyahnybok.

Accident? Or irony? The last name Rubin - being the Judeophile that I have historically been - makes me reflect on the way the Hebrew language conceives Rubin - the ruby, the son of Jacob who 'slept with his father's concubine'. The kabbalah interprets such a verse as a reference to a dimension of human nature which is lustful and desirous i.e. "red" (the color we go when aroused). Rothschild - "red shield". The color red and the doctrine of antinomianism - or satanism (satan is hebrew for "adversary") is probably a "thing" amongst certain elitist Jews.

In any case, this woman's effort to represent John McCain - war monger par excellence - as a "human rights activist", is beyond morbid. It is downright misanthropic. No one who knows anything of John McCain would confuse him for a human rights activist, and yet here is Rubin making that reprehensible claim, all the while doing it while the guy sitting next to him in the photo is a neo-nazi.

Is that by accident? What's the likelihood that an intelligent woman would create an article which claims something she obviously knows would be controversial? And the picture she chooses is one with McCain and Oleh Tyahnybok? I'll assume this is some sort of tongue-in-cheak intimation that McCain, despiting being a "human rights activist", is really at heart just like Oleh Tyahnybok.

This may be me at my most conspiratorial, but it really isn't conspiracy to ascribe collusion to people who believe in an insane, unscientific representation of reality that seems to be built - religiously dedicated - to the concept of idealism.

Now, I for one am not a religious zealot, but rather think it important to acknowledge 'what causes what'. John McCain was a human being - and as a human being, he is subject to everything I know to be intrinsic to the dynamical system known as "homo sapiens". My education in development and anthropology allows me to conceptualize McCain as a very late effect of a system of belief practiced by the elite classes which is purely mythological. The mythology - or the concept of mythology - is not as Mercia Eliade or Joseph Campbell thought - that is, as non-scientific thinkers dedicated to the mythological construct known as the 'perennial religion', they were simply embodying and enacting the same diseased narratives that drive "elites" to think that reality is arbitrary, and its really as much of a "you make your own truth" dynamic as they imagine it to be.

Alas, idealization while alive conceals the dissociation of unwanted truths - and it is these truths, reflective of a suppressed ideal symmetry - which will likely cast its gaze - and in the process "create" our hell - as it reviews the meanings generated by our value-systems while alive.

Whose death? I suspect that the individual self is contingent on a body, and so without a body, you are no longer an individual, but the 'whole' - whether that be conceived as the human being, or the Universe, the 'whole' is not just you, but the emergent property which allows us to observe and know ourselves.

Elites may think that when they die, what effects the quality of their afterlife experience is how the living - those who know them - think about them. This of course is tendentious thinking - a wish that wishes to forget what it may realize deep down is way to basic to not be true: symmetry.

When you see your life from the beginning, and see it from the gaze of love, what we see or know as ourselves - as well as the people who related to us and the effects they produce - likely produce a response that is not just limited to your own experience, but also theirs: not only were you deluded and deranged about what 'means what', but the other you were attached to - your mother, father, siblings, grandparents, cousins, friends, etc - all that too is a lie: the entire thing you valued and embodied was a farcity, and death, which reveals the "logos", or consciousness, which logically extends itself in relation to what it coherently represents.

You could say it is a reversal of perspective death: while the truth of causal reality was cast to the margins while alive, the meanings you embodied in your living - and the effects they produce, could be known 'side-by-side' with the promiment gazing of love.

What is shame but an awareness of one part of ourseves - the part that aims for wholeness and symmetry - casting its gaze on the effect of an immediate experience - an asymmetry within ourselves? Asymmetries are always about 'doing': either someone mistreated us or we mistreated another. Asymmetries are also very large: a military elite turned elite politician like McCain functions at so high a level that his actions, views, and opinions have consequences for many people. The degree of power which a person exercises - and the significance of its effect on other human beings (animals and nature as well) would then be the 'highest symmetry' to which his actions are correlated. There is an 'immediate symmetry' of the interactions with the people he built these narratives with - reflecting their shared value system. And then there's the actual semiotic consequences lived by the people who his actions beared upon: it is precisely this dimension, so 'far away' from the minds of McCain's and other's, which, if known, would certainly make them 'change their tunes' and live accordingly to the laws of nature. Unfortunately, the brain's inherent ability to dissociate and idealize, or defocus from a truthful content and its representation to a non-truthful content and representation, allows falsehood and evil to grow.

Blame the universe, right? Satanism is, after all, all about the feelings described by Cain when God rejected his sacrifice: he resented him. I can totally understand such feelings, but it is, nevertheless, a vain delusion to think that "you" and "God" are different things, or that physical reality, having evolved before you ever existed - as the sciences show - is the template you have to adapt yourself to, and if not, and if you think you'd rather keep at what you're doing, what do you expect to happen, other than the hell-process and the righting which controls all of reality?

A pet theory of reincarnation that I've been developing is based on 'karmic' principles like 'what you deserve' - the Hebrew language calls this 'measure for measure'. If the delusional elite thinks he is what pythagoreans and others believe - the culmination of an 'ancient soul' now on the verge of apotheosis, his just desserts would come by being born in Bangladesh, or China, and forced to live a fetid existence.

Conversely, there are those people who are constrained in their living, wishing and hoping to "be that" - to be rich, famous, powerful. Maybe his "just desserts" is to get just that: to be reborn into such a situation and, unfortunately, be fed back in a next life into squalor.

I didn't get most of it... then again I'm dumb.
I just hope reincarnation doesn't happen to me, I hope I did something good so I retain what is me.

"Since consciousness is an emergent property of recognition dynamics - or the symmetry of self and other - it stands to reason that when we die, the only thing which matters in terms of 'what becomes of our sense of being' probably has something to do with symmetry."



Then us pesky Christians go and 'monkey it all up'
John 14:2
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.”


Still, S&F Thought provoking indeed. McCain didn't strike me as one deeply in touch with God.

a reply to: Astrocyte
Ok cool, looks like we are on the same page on existence then. Now stop thinking about it so much and just go enjoy the temporary state in which energy becomes trapped in matter known as life. We get to do it again at some indeterminate time when that same energy is trapped again.

But one thing I want to ask you since it seems we are pretty close in thought, do you think there is still a unique identifier for the properties of energy that make the 'self' during the mortal journey while it rejoins the whole?

Energy is boundless when not trapped in matter. But once it is released either by bullet, blade or simple old age, it rejoins the whole (the universe, the force, life stream, etc..). While on the mortal journey we are known through our uniqueness as an individual. Do you believe there is any semblance of that with you while you are returned to the whole and exist as every and all memory, action, and event that has ever occurred through the universe???

My current state of belief is that being part of that whole is the same as being everywhere at the same time, remembering every moment, every kiss, smile, slap to the face, punch to the gut, admiration of a sunset or wedding kiss of everybody and thing that has ever lived. Even that snap second where a fish inhales another for a snack. Thinking of that state of existence as a perpetual infinite hard drive and every memory is a record of an archive. Matter unfortunately has limits, and would never have the capacity to retain it all. That is why all life is born ignorant and innocent. Although I have gut suspicion that babies still have a sliver of attachment or maybe access to that realm until their body forces it out in order to breathe, blink, crawl, walk, speak , drink and eat and so on. The development of our own memories could very well be a subconscious attempt at trying to reconnect with that intermission state of existence between energy released and then trapped again.

Many people would have a difficult time understanding what I am even attempting to convey here, but I feel like you probably understand what I am getting at.

Well according to Buddhism, McCain will be back in 49 days from when he died. So if you aren’t too old you’ll probably be able to vote for him in 30 years or so.

And around we go.

a reply to: Astrocyte

I wish you had given us a heads up in the title that this was just another McCain bashing thread.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Astrocyte

I wish you had given us a heads up in the title that this was just another McCain bashing thread.

And if that is all you got out of it, then you deserve the politicians you admire.

This is someone attempting to describe the Tapestry.

It is a noble path and rarely traveled.

S&F for the thread... I admire your command of the English language.

a reply to: Astrocyte

My 2nd wife used to write just like that when she took too much adderall.

That was a lot of words

Clarity of thought and articulation of verbiage is a gift one should never waste. Would we chastise so cavalierly, anyone possessing such qualities. ?

There are inferences in the Bible, a very contradictory piece of literature, about reincarnations, even by JC himself. Personally, I don't like the concept of reincarnation. You get one time and that's it.

I think our soul, or mind, or whatever you want to call what you is inside that organic robot that gets you around, is just a kind of electricity, power, energy etc.

Is it possible that energy disperses upon organic death. 'YOU', being your consciousness, is free to float away.
Now here's the rub.

Do you still have a sense of awareness but 'forget ourselves'.
Maybe we just lose our knowledge of everything, but are still conscious of ourselves existing.
Albeit in a different form and perhaps lacking a personality, the sense of our self.

Because who are we now?
What are your memories?
What makes you, well you?
Why are you, you?

Our brains not that different to a magnetic drive. We're recording through our senses. sight, sound, touch, taste, smell.
Actually it's like a CPU, hard drive, ram hybrid. The entire computer in one piece.

All we experience and witness is being ,taped, analyzed, processed and saved.
As we learn and live we are etched into our brains via new neural path ways.
Kind of like recording to a VHS tape or burning a file to a CD.
Everything we experience becomes part of us.
We are mostly the sum of what we have learned. And on occasion we have our unique new thoughts, but built off of our previous knowledge.
You didn't just think of math one day, you learned it. Do you go to Church because it's natural or because your parents made you?

We are the sum of our parts.

Like a computer motherboard, the way these new neural pathways redirect your electricity, mind, soul, you get a different result. Hence we literally grow as a person. Or 'upgrade'.

Electricity goes left, think this. Electricity goes right remember that.
Just like electronics really.

We really are just organic robots with a level of intelligent sentience.
We can even suffer the same problems as a computer. 'scratch the disk' or the pathways, and you might be able to access some of the files that make you, but not all of them and you may see drastic changes in your personality.
So we know the organic stuff has a lot to do with what makes you you and me me.

So when we die and the old brain hard drive can no longer hold onto the electricity or 'soul' anymore what happens.
If the energy flows free, then it is no longer bound to the pathways of your physical body's brain.
Your mind no longer has the train tracks to follow that make you who you currently are, if that makes sense.

Basically your personality and memories are forever tied to the physical body you have now as you read this.
Without your body you are just sentient energy.

You're the electricity that is information and more as it flows through the mother board, but is then just electricity again as it goes back into the mains.

If this is so. What next I wonder?
Uploaded back to the grid? Sent to a new simulation?

Who knows? Not me. Not you. Not anyone. Well at least not yet.
Can get a little scary to think about the nature of reality in its entirety some times.

But it is reassuring to think I can scientifically convince myself an existence after physical death is indeed possible.
Guess I'll find out if I am right one day.

Alright, now that we're coming down from that weed, let's move on to the facts, where most of you are going, if you don't repent and believe in Jesus Christ. By the way, if anybody asks you what the most costly thing on the planet is, tell them it's believing what you want to believe, or being a damned fool, whichever you prefer.

Luke 16:19-31 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

"Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

"Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Matthew 13:40-42 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41,46 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels... And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Mark 9:42-48 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched --- where 'Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched --- where 'Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire --- where 'Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.'

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Luke 12:4-5 And I say to you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Truth is truth, and it is the truth you've been given from God you will be held accountable for. The last person you want to fool is yourself. Remember,

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

a reply to: Scrutinizing
Half of the bible was intentionally mistranslated to hide the fact we colonized Earth and used genetic engineering to mix it up with the indigenous sentient life forms because the colonizers were highly advanced. In fact you can find clues in pretty much every ancient culture that left behind writing about the advanced level of technology that was known. From the book of Ezekiel describing pretty much what could easily be the Space X Falcon Heavy making its controlled descent, to the helicopters and other avionics in Egyptian and Sumerian Hieroglyphs. Even the Mahabharata describes epic battles waged in the sky like modern dog fights as well as the power of nuclear weapons, and the destructive effects the blast has on not only structures but the radiation poisoning on living beings as well.

Many miracles can be performed today, such as the illusion of walking on water (utilizing recently developed but very expensive consumer gadgets), seeing through objects (with a tweaked infra red camera), to surgically reattaching an ear (albeit we are not quite as fast yet as an instant reattachment). A virgin birth is nothing more than artificial insemination, and some of the older lore from Egypt and Babylon from which the story of Jesus's virgin birth originate from even use wordage that would suggest a simpler description of a modern medical procedure.

It only takes ten years of ignorance for a generation to forget much of what it has accomplished and buy into myths and dramatizations of great deeds. The generation born during that period will simply eat up any story as the turth, because it is the only thing that they will know.

When the institutions of civilization collapse, those who seek to consolidate their power hide everything they can about the truth of the past. This makes it easier to manipulate the population about epic deeds that they themselves (the new TPTB) can claim their bloodline has come from, and therefore must be acknowledged as their God's.

But all that is still way to 2 dimensional compared to what we are actually discussing here in this thread.

Bringing up the bible here is just too simple of a discussion. We are another plane of existence that the greedy and evil power brokers who eventually commissioned the bible from the hundreds of stories that have existed since before Jesus could ever comprehend. The people who actually had the bible penned had no intent on living life in an eternal Kingdom. They were seeking immortality in their human state by way of conning the world to submit to these twisted tales and demanding all of their wealth to keep them in power.

Flesh, and matter in general is finite. Energy always seeks to escape and be free. This is why even the sun will come to an end. The truth is only discovered when your energy is released back into the whole of the universe, no longer trapped by the limits and confines of matter. You could come back as an ice crystal, or a mosquito, or a damn flying reptile in a new age of dinosaurs. But you will always be something new and you will never remember the infinite layers of existence you had already been through. Because, matter has limits. Energy seemingly does not. It simply goes from being stored as potential energy, to being realized as kinetic energy.

It will all be remembered, every single moment of it though while existing in this free state. As I went on about it in my initial reply.

Its too bad OP does not often stick around to actually discuss his threads. I notice you just kind of philosophize pretty deep, and then move on.

There are still free minds here, let us philosophize together!! Just ignore the "derp derp, what?? Too many words!!" zombies still trapped in the simplicity of their understanding of the universe and engage the rest of us willing to deep down the rabbit hole man!

a reply to: Astrocyte

Who is too judge...one life ones poor, dying, wishing for better, the next life, could be born poor but has the ambition to be rich and keep it. Next life, too easy, and doesn't when to stop only to be poor again, and die.

Then your born into a low or upper middle class life style in some far off socialist future that somehow still uses capitalism.

Conversely, there are those people who are constrained in their living, wishing and hoping to "be that" - to be rich, famous, powerful. Maybe his "just desserts" is to get just that: to be reborn into such a situation and, unfortunately, be fed back in a next life into squalor.

Rich - No
Famous - No
Powerful - Yes when I lay a dump I am God of the universe.