The Reality of Psi: Leading Journal Publishes Paper Revealing the Evidence

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It is exactly the same as what i described. How many coincidences are going on around you that you never take notice of?

And as I said, the fact that they were different enough for me to notice them makes them significant.

How many coincidences are going on around you that you never take notice of? The only difference in what you were describing and what I am describing is the significance that you placed on the event. Unless you’re saying that that eventIs significant in some other way?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
How many coincidences are going on around you that you never take notice of? The only difference in what you were describing and what I am describing is the significance that you placed on the event. Unless you’re saying that that eventIs significant in some other way?

You don't think that me noticing something is strange is significant enough? That's what 90 percent of medical / psychiatric treatment is based on. Somebody noticing something is out of the ordinary.

What do you think a "coincidence" is? If I hear a Burger King commercial on the radio just as I'm driving by a Burger King, I'm not going to say, "Oh, that's my psychic power at work!" You're right. That kind of thing happens all the time. However, if some random thing enters my head that I haven't thought about in years, not triggered by any obvious conscious encounter, and then a close or even identical thing pops up in what I consider to be an odd context, that will catch my attention. I am the detector. I am the meter. I'm the one determining what is normal and what is not.

Again, the problem as I see it is not so much about the phenomenon, but more about how it's very difficult for science to measure it. I can't record my thoughts, so I can't tell you exactly how many I have during the day, what they consist of, or where they "come from." All I can do is indicate which repeated concept catches my attention as being outside of what I would consider normal. There's no way for me to verify it objectively for you, because you have to see it from my point of view -- which is another thing science is inherently lousy at.

I'm sorry you can't experience it the way I (and apparently many other people) do. Although, as I've said, after a while it becomes annoying because if it happens in a cluster then I really do start to pay way too much attention to my random thoughts and try to link them to later experiences. Which is not the way it works. It's subtle, and you can't force it.

Back in the 90s when I was working a little bit with Alan Vaughn to try and come up with a way to use computers to measure and potentially strengthen the effect, we would have these discussions all the time.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Woodcarver
How many coincidences are going on around you that you never take notice of? The only difference in what you were describing and what I am describing is the significance that you placed on the event. Unless you’re saying that that eventIs significant in some other way?

You don't think that me noticing something is strange is significant enough? That's what 90 percent of medical / psychiatric treatment is based on. Somebody noticing something is out of the ordinary.

What do you think a "coincidence" is? If I hear a Burger King commercial on the radio just as I'm driving by a Burger King, I'm not going to say, "Oh, that's my psychic power at work!" You're right. That kind of thing happens all the time. However, if some random thing enters my head that I haven't thought about in years, not triggered by any obvious conscious encounter, and then a close or even identical thing pops up in what I consider to be an odd context, that will catch my attention. I am the detector. I am the meter. I'm the one determining what is normal and what is not.

Again, the problem as I see it is not so much about the phenomenon, but more about how it's very difficult for science to measure it. I can't record my thoughts, so I can't tell you exactly how many I have during the day, what they consist of, or where they "come from." All I can do is indicate which repeated concept catches my attention as being outside of what I would consider normal. There's no way for me to verify it objectively for you, because you have to see it from my point of view -- which is another thing science is inherently lousy at.

I'm sorry you can't experience it the way I (and apparently many other people) do. Although, as I've said, after a while it becomes annoying because if it happens in a cluster then I really do start to pay way too much attention to my random thoughts and try to link them to later experiences. Which is not the way it works. It's subtle, and you can't force it.

Back in the 90s when I was working a little bit with Alan Vaughn to try and come up with a way to use computers to measure and potentially strengthen the effect, we would have these discussions all the time.

And I’m assuming you never came up with anything.? Is there anything you can do to show that these ideas are viable? Or significant in anyway?

Also I’ve noticed that when people say something like “I’m sorry you can’t experience this the way I do,”

They are doubly full of # and self-aggrandizement. Do you want to feel like you are special and that you have special powers, but anytime you are pressed to prove this or asked to demonstrate something of this manner, it’s a bunch of hemming and hawing About how you can’t prove things like this.

Let me know when your magic powers become useful.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Let me know when your magic powers become useful.

There's really no need for hostility. It's not threatening you in any way. At this point, even for me, it's a curiosity. No worries.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: surfer_soul

So what’s fringe today might yet be proved correct such as with the psi phenomenon.

Why do you think Phage asked where the PSI math is?


Einstein had fringe theories at the time, with those theories he had equations that were looked over by others and the math worked.

Initially, scientists were skeptical because the general theory of relativity was not derived by experiment or observation, but by pure mathematical reasoning and rational analysis

So with psi this appears to be the other way round, we have experiment and observation, but no math.

I realise there are plenty of charlatans out there, but for 6th sense like abilities I think there is plenty of evidence for, but just no way of explaining how it works as yet.

a reply to: Woodcarver

And I’m assuming you never came up with anything.? Is there anything you can do to show that these ideas are viable? Or significant in anyway?

There are cases where it has saved lives. we have testaments from otherwise trustworthy and respected people. Sure there are frauds and nut jobs out there, but why would otherwise ordinary people make stuff up? Same thing with witnesses?

originally posted by: surfer_soul
There are cases where it has saved lives. we have testaments from otherwise trustworthy and respected people. Sure there are frauds and nut jobs out there, but why would otherwise ordinary people make stuff up? Same thing with witnesses?

The problem is not that people make stuff up, is that people may misinterpret things.

a reply to: ArMaP

Perhaps people may occasionally misinterpret things, but most of the accounts I’ve read it’s not really a case of misinterpreting anything. They are just describing as best they can the experiences they had. So we can’t just dismiss it as that either.

A rather common phenomenon is the feeling of being stared at, and then to turn and look directly at the person who is staring. I’ve had it happen to me personally both ways and for me it was more spooky for someone to stop whatever they were doing and look directly at me. You can even do a simple experiment with this and take it in turns with a partner to stare or not and note down whether or not you felt you were being watched. I did this with a friend and we were right 7/10 times and 8/10 times respectively. Which while not 100% it’s better than mere chance.

Anyone can do this simple experiment and see what the results are for themselves.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: ArMaP

Perhaps people may occasionally misinterpret things, but most of the accounts I’ve read it’s not really a case of misinterpreting anything. They are just describing as best they can the experiences they had. So we can’t just dismiss it as that either.

A rather common phenomenon is the feeling of being stared at, and then to turn and look directly at the person who is staring. I’ve had it happen to me personally both ways and for me it was more spooky for someone to stop whatever they were doing and look directly at me. You can even do a simple experiment with this and take it in turns with a partner to stare or not and note down whether or not you felt you were being watched. I did this with a friend and we were right 7/10 times and 8/10 times respectively. Which while not 100% it’s better than mere chance.

Anyone can do this simple experiment and see what the results are for themselves.

The accounts you’ve read are merely stories that people tell to make themselves seem like they have magical powers.

Your example of people knowing when someone is staring at them is a very common phenomenon and it has a very simple explanation. Humans, like every other animal, tend to look around at their surroundings. So when you raise your head up and look around, that motion attracts the gaze of other people who are also looking around. Then your eyes meet.


Only people who like to think of themselves as special, or having special powers, will jump to the conclusion that they have special powers. Confirmation bias.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Nonsense.

It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special or anything like that. In fact it precisely because of attitudes like yours that many don’t report their experiences because of fear of ridicule.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
The accounts you’ve read are merely stories that people tell to make themselves seem like they have magical powers.

I wish it was magic. Then I could actually control it and make it useful. As it is, it's just a puzzle. Not only that, I don't think it's all that special, because I think that pretty much everybody has it (including you), but we tend to ignore it or dismiss it as a trick of statistics because it does not fit in with how we understand reality usually works. But that is the start of inquiry.

The evidence of PSIA is apparent to anyone who pays attention. But you know it's crazy to believe in so no one pays attention or shrugs it iff.
Funny it used to be they said it was a sin. Witch craft. When we finally got out of the middle ages then it just became something to Scott at. Lots of charlatans contributed to that.
Maybe we are finally getting to the place where everybody knows it's real and everybody acknowledges their own abilities. Weak or strong.
That would be cool.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I feel ya. Random as a twelve year olds thoughts.

a reply to: Woodcarver

You don't entertain the idea that the arrogance could be on your part because you don't experience it?

a reply to: surfer_soul

It's more convincing for non believers to try this on random strangers.
I usually concentrate on the person touching their hair or nose.
It doesn't always work and sometimes it works on someone who wasn't the target.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No it's not magical powers any more than breathing or thought are.
I'm sure you have no problem with animal instinct do you?
If not why the problem that we with bigger brains and much more complex thought processes not only have instincts but more finely tuned instincts than animals do.
You could develope yours if you weren't so afraid of "magical powers" lol.
I've chosen slot machines to my advantage with it and found more parking spots close to the door at the mall with it. And not by aimlessly driving around the parking lot either. But that's my magical power. Tee hee.
I don't worry about people who make fun of it. Not at all.
But they'll neglect the time they connected with an old friend after just have thought of them or the time they decide to take a different route and avoid a traffic jam they didn't know about and say things like what a coincidence. Yes coincidence is the acceptable word for it.

Research Einstein Rosen Poldosky paradox for a possible explanation being quantum on the molecular or sub atomic level.
Not magic.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Woodcarver

Nonsense.

It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special or anything like that. In fact it precisely because of attitudes like yours that many don’t report their experiences because of fear of ridicule.

Oh yeah, it’s my fault there’s no evidence for this.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Woodcarver

You don't entertain the idea that the arrogance could be on your part because you don't experience it?

Oh yeah, I am arrogant because you can’t prove your magic powers

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Woodcarver

Nonsense.

It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special or anything like that. In fact it precisely because of attitudes like yours that many don’t report their experiences because of fear of ridicule.

Oh yeah, it’s my fault there’s no evidence for this.

Evidence was presented in the OP it’s not my problem you choose to ignore it.

P.S if you insist on mixing pure fantasy such as magical super powers, unicorns and the rest of the mumbo jumbo stuff with the real psi phenomenon reported and experienced by so many then it’s no wonder why you throw the baby out with the bath water.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Woodcarver

Nonsense.

It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special or anything like that. In fact it precisely because of attitudes like yours that many don’t report their experiences because of fear of ridicule.

That is so true surfer_soul. I recall a psychic episode I had at work where a woman came and told me she lost her wallet and she was very upset about it, immediately, like a video in my mind, I could see her flinging the wallet into some sort of rectangular box under a cabinet. So, normally I would keep these types of psychic events to myself, but I decided to relay the vision to her. She just remained quiet for a moment then told me "I think I know where it is and I'm going home at lunchtime to look", and she did. When she returned she came up to me and said "It was exactly where you said it was".

The strange thing is that was the first time I put myself up for ridicule and when I told my mother, who by the way also has strong psi abilities, she was taken aback that I would tell anyone and advised me not to do it again. Stigma plays a large role in our society, particularly if religion is involved.