Does The "Dark Forest Theory" Explain The Fermi Paradox Concerning Advanced Alien Civilizations?

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Hmmm, interesting.

From a ‘nuts and bolts’ perspective, they’d (ET) have to be well ahead of us on the technological curve, that’s for sure.

Regarding time and manipulation of ‘future’ events, I don’t entirely discount it, but my take is “time” is an evolutionary concept; our known, recorded history has been marked by linear ‘progress’ and is marked by our understanding of the passage of time. Strictly linear.

What if time is fluid and no matter where you go, there you are?

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Haha...that bald guy in that clip looks like Disturbed's lead singer:

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Well, I've always believed that a super advanced, alien civilization would be able to manipulate time and space, allowing them to travel anywhere in the universe. Maybe they have a method to fabricate wormholes anywhere they want and use them like doorways, to enter any part of the universe. If they can do this, perhaps it's also feasible, that any drone they launched, would use these "doorways" to travel around also. I think many of us seem to forget how far we've evolved, technologically speaking, as a race in the past 100 years. Our human minds couldn't comprehend, what an advanced civilization, that's hundreds of thousands, or perhaps, millions of years more advance than us, would be capable of achieving.

It seems to me what you say would have to be the case if inter-galactic travel can go on.
I've linked to an article below, which in a nice and simple way, goes on to consider more of theories of extraterrestrial contact - why not, or perhaps it has already happened.

The other theories just go more to show that all seem to be nothing more than wild guesses, including the "Dark Forest" one.

When it comes down to it I think people need to be logical rather than waste so much energy on guessing. Guesses may be interesting but nothing is ever going to give one more credibility over another.

The only logical proposal which doesn't go away, however much you consider everything is that the distances involved in extraterrestrial's space travel to our planet are so immense that at best, it's unlikely we'll ever see ETs. Unlikely, if not impossible. But maybe impossible.

So then we come back to possible ways around this piece of deduction, and you've put those well, shawmanfromny:
basically wormholes or time-space manipulation which not only doesn't (everyday) science know about, but which will give most people the willies or a terrible migraine.

(Generally people do like 1 minute past 5 to come 1 minute after 5, exactly, and for there to to be exactly 1 minute in between, no more, no less. Given that this the habitual truth we do know anyway, time - space manipulation would have to be going on somehow through this, as well as it. That is mindbending and I suppose senseless in an everyday way of understanding.)

Sometimes I wonder if, this maybe being the only solution to ETs travelling to here, or vice versa, it's why the US deep secret state element invested in time bending research in covert research for example in the Montauk and Pegasus projects (and others). They definitely went in for and still go in for remote viewing, and definitely that included viewing places beyond the earth. Maybe that led them onto research into going beyond time and space as we know it.

Of course, if there's an earthly Secret Space program, as alleged, it may well be that that ability or technology for warping time - space already exists.

UnderKingsPeak also mentioned not to underestimate a possible "stealth" ability of civilizations with advanced technology. I don't know if it might be part of what he was thinking, but the only other logical possibility remaining to the wormhole theories etc is that a civilization sends out an inter-generational mission. Maybe this could be a craft so huge it would be like a whole town, basically a few miles long, maybe miles wide and who knows, many stories high!

Personally I think those are the only two possibilities - multi-generational travel for many thousands of earth years, and the former idea from shawmanfromny, which actually when you think about it, amounts more or less to what we conceive as magic.

Either solution to the distance problem could mean, "they're here" already. But probably each possible solution probably requires suspending one's disbelief at least a little. (Could a mega, miles long space craft make it through asteroid belts? There might not be much hope for Star Wars like avoidance manoeuvres! But it seems, it's either that or more or less magic which is the only way that ETs could get here or could have gotten here.)



www.businessinsider.com...-were-completely-wrong-about-all-of-this-and-reality-is-nothing-like -what-we-perceive-14

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: CreationBro

I doubt aliens are giving us the "kid glove treatment." Did you ever consider that human's barbaric behavior is tame, compared to extraterrestrial civilizations more advanced than ours? That point is expressed by at least two brilliant men, Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku.

Id say we rank pretty high on the insanity/barbaric scale still, but we are getting better about it.

As for e.t. that can travel here. Sure there are probably some that would rank as barbaric, but their form of barbaric is a much more insidious, deceptive, complex and strategic form of it.

They dont smash rocks and detonate nukes. They sterilize you and make you forgot about it.

Dos mensajes

The Dark Forest.... definetly gotta give that a read...

I think the real question is if the ET's base their existence on materialism, or spiritualism...
Either way, thanks for the referal/endorsment, and the question to ponder..

You guys might enjoy reading some of the more highly rated stories of reddits "Humanity, F*ck Yeah!" subreddit.

Some are written about Drakes formular and the resulting problems. You won't need new SF-books for quite some time

Reddit.com/r/hfy

a reply to: starwarsisreal

One of the scariest things ive ever heard is that the purpose of abductions (if real) and experimentation on humans by ET's is that the ET's are trying to find a way to harness our souls.... Still gives me shivers...
IMO , the problem with the ETH is that we humans assume they are motivated by the same materialistic motivation we are, and not a spiritual one.
Maybe they are tring to free us from a consciousness block applied by something else, or maybe trying to inform us of the true nature of our consciousness and our reality...

originally posted by: Nivek555
Is this Dark Forest Theory not a great argument for putting weapons into space?

thanks.

Do you believe there are no weapons in space today?

a reply to: shawmanfromny

I read something similar to that dont remeber where now. But the difference was a biological life form created a mechanical life form. This mechanical life forms saw biological life forms as a threat. So when they came to a planet and found life they would destroy it. They saw it as the great purging and biological life as a disease.

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Well, I've always believed that a super advanced, alien civilization would be able to manipulate time and space, allowing them to travel anywhere in the universe. Maybe they have a method to fabricate wormholes anywhere they want and use them like doorways, to enter any part of the universe.

Or maybe time and space cannot really be manipulated in that way, and space travel is actually pretty hard. Maybe they have advanced technologies that can take then around their part of the galaxy, but the technology to easily go anywhere they want in the universe may not be possible.

Even if it is possible, but extremely rare to find a currently-existing civilization who has that ability, the universe is so big that the potential handful of civilizations that can easily travel anywhere in the universe haven't got around to making frequent visits to our infinitessimally tiny part of the universe.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

"However, SETI astronomer Seth Shostak told us it's too late to consider we should send such transmissions, because we've already been doing it for decades."

www.businessinsider.com...

a reply to: Riffrafter

I do, but I think they are pointed at us.



thanks.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: shawmanfromny

I read something similar to that dont remeber where now. But the difference was a biological life form created a mechanical life form. This mechanical life forms saw biological life forms as a threat. So when they came to a planet and found life they would destroy it. They saw it as the great purging and biological life as a disease.

Yeah well the Borg isnt exactly a new concept...

Anyway, I am not really sure I buy that "life only cares for itself and will kill anything it meets" because IMO one of the most important parts of intelligence - if not the most - is simple curiousity. Life is curious about life. And the more content it is, the more curious it becomes. Put a baby and a lion cub in a cage and they will care little they are prey and hunter whichever way.

And if it turns out the forest is indeed dark and scare, we know what to do. Fire, hahaha, fire! FIRE! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! dualwields flamethrowers

originally posted by: Nivek555
a reply to: Riffrafter

I do, but I think they are pointed at us.



thanks.

Of course they are.

And the definition of who "us" is can and does change from time to time. Also, as more countries join the party it can get pretty interesting up there. The good news is that all are sat based and it's targets (if any or if necessary) are almost always other sats.

But if the sh#t gets real - to coin a phrase - the sats/weapons would simply be one salvo from that countries arsenal. But so far - just like with terrestrial based weapons - cooler heads have prevailed.

But you need to be ready for any eventuality.

As are our potential adversaries...

a reply to: dragonridr

I'm scared this might happen in the next 25-50 years on earth, with AI technology.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Very true. All we humans can do is speculate. Wouldn't mind seeing an alien visitation before I die. I figure there's a 50% chance that they'd be friendly lol.

a reply to: Riffrafter

Well yeah I think I get your point allright, but I was talking about putting weapons
in space to shoot at the aliens Mr Hawking and Mr Kaku was theorizing about.
The ones coming to eat us
I thought it was rather obvious.

Biga$$ nuclear laser cannons with photon torpedos and railguns and such.
Better have one and not need it yes?
They are after all very smart people mr Kaku & Hawking.

The lasers could double as pushers for solar sails.

yup

Thanks

originally posted by: Nivek555
a reply to: Riffrafter

The lasers could double as pushers for solar sails.

That's how you sell it to the public


Having said that, I think a laser weapon platform in space that is meant as a defense against big bad aliens who have come to "serve man" (in the Rod Serling sense of the term) would be easily neutralized by those aliens. First off, they would be flying interstellar spaceships, so they have some advanced level of technology. Second, such a satellite platform would most likely be delicate and simple to neutralize.

Dark Forest could be a factor, but it's just another factor piled on top of an already huge number of potential reasons why we haven't obviously encountered aliens. First they have to get through all the other filters, including that huge step from single to multi-celled organisms, all the way up to where they have cognitive functions and therefore motivations and values roughly similar to our own.

I could just as easily say that democracy is also a potential filter, since building ships and going to the stars (or even looking closely at them) would require a vote among the civilization's citizens which would slow the process down to the point where they might make it to their own Moon, but then just stop, being more concerned about things happening on their own planet than in space -- for instance.