Why Feminism is Wrong

a reply to: Peeple

I'm against third wave feminists which is beyond being treated equally and has become a man hating movement with lots of whining. Male feminists being the worse.

I prefer to call myself an egalitarian

Lol where do you live? Because of my studies, NGO/gov work, and location (NYC), I encounter them daily.

a reply to: RAY1990

I agree. It's taken on elements that go beyond equality and empowerment. That's true for social justice generally, which makes me sad and alienated from the movement.
a reply to: JDmOKI

a reply to: rickymouse

I am not sure so much that the original feminists or suffragettes or whatever you want to call them felt that women who were happily married *should* have to go out and work.

I think what they wanted was the freedom for women to work if they needed to. If a woman didn't want to marry or didn't want to be a family person or lost her husband and needed a means of support, then she should be able to go out and find a job which was not an available thing in the original days of the fight for women's equality.

But I'm not sure they envisioned today where women who would rather be happily married and raising the kids without a job are demeaned by their peers and society in general as lesser as the intended result.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: rickymouse

I am not sure so much that the original feminists or suffragettes or whatever you want to call them felt that women who were happily married *should* have to go out and work.

I think what they wanted was the freedom for women to work if they needed to. If a woman didn't want to marry or didn't want to be a family person or lost her husband and needed a means of support, then she should be able to go out and find a job which was not an available thing in the original days of the fight for women's equality.

But I'm not sure they envisioned today where women who would rather be happily married and raising the kids without a job are demeaned by their peers and society in general as lesser as the intended result.

I agree, women should get paid the same if they are doing the same job. But often a woman cannot lift things like a man so they cannot do the whole job and often there is less risk of them getting hurt because they are not doing that. Some jobs are better suited for guys and some women are way better at. I like to evaluate pay by risk and also by productivity accomplished. But piece work is often not appropriate in some jobs, the employers abuse the practice to keep wages low so they can profit and society demands cheap things they really do not need which promotes inequity in pay.

I am not against women getting equal pay and benefits, but I am against women being uncivil when pushing the agenda, it creates negativity in our society. It breaks up good marriages

a reply to: Peeple

While I believe Feminism was originally founded with good intentions, the problem is nowadays many feminists followed misandrist feminists such as Valerie Solanas who said the following:

"Life" in this "society" being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of "society" being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation and eliminate the male sex.

en.wikipedia.org...

He ["the male"] is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than apes, because he is, first of all, capable of a large array of negative feelings that the apes aren't - hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, disgrace, doubt - and, secondly, he is aware of what he is and isn't.

en.wikiquote.org...

a reply to: starwarsisreal

When feminists start to get angry because their body parts are named after the men who described and named them because most of the early pioneers in anatomy were, you know, male, we're going off the deep end.

Does it really matter if your anatomy was named after men? How many of your body parts that are named after men did you know were named after men, and is it really worth going on frothing, ranting crusade to change that?

How many of us feel oppressed because those parts are named after the men who first described them?

a reply to: rickymouse

I posted this on another thread, think I will do it here also...
I worked in screen print shops and one that I spent working for would print those huge vinyl banners that you sometimes see around stores, ya know grand opening and the like. to print these banners we used one quite old press, strictly manual. the screens we used were huge and it would take two to three men just to carry it to the press and get it set..
but once they did, there job was done... ya see, those men just couldn't get a consistent pressure, the one who printed them was a female printer, so well, after the screen was set up, we would take over, her printing, me pulling the banners off the belt and inspecting them. I was quite good at catching problems early in the run, she was good at printing on that old manual press... the guys, well, everytime they tried to print on them more stock ended up in the trash than being shipped out the door.
so, I have to ask, should we have been paid less simply because we weren't able to lift the heavy screen which only took maybe 5 minutes to carry and set into place? when we spent the day printing the nightmare job that the guys were pretty much certain to blow?

a reply to: dawnstar

I mentioned that some jobs women are better at and some guys are better at, especially when considering physical strength being higher in guys usually. Not always, but most times. I do know some women who are way stronger than some of the guys I know though, I am trying to make a correlation between ability and the job.

In the case you are mentioning, the woman should get more pay since she has more skills or at least should be recognized for her abilities. Everyone is good at some things and not good at others. I do not say that someone digging the rest of a ditch should be getting more than a person running the excavator that a woman could easily do. I do not think that just because a construction worker is running an excavator for an hour that they should get paid more for that job either.

So the people running the old press are better at that job, but should that qualify them to receive the same wage as the person painting the building or putting the cement sidewalk in?

The right person for the right job, women should not be required to shovel out the sewage out of basements when a sewer pipe broke and all sorts of crap is down there. I would have one of the guys do that, I do discriminate, there is a better job for the woman to do, I would not want to scare all the woman off if I had a business.

a reply to: rickymouse

So the people running the old press are better at that job, but should that qualify them to receive the same wage as the person painting the building or putting the cement sidewalk in?

I couldn't tell ya, that would depend on just how much money the boss was willing to pay the company he chooses to paint the building or lay the cement sidewalk, and how much that company chose to pay their workers...
although the printers might be able to pull off the painting bit.. not sure if any of the would be considered experienced enough to do a professional job with the sidewalk. and to be honest, there's a good possibility that the print jobs would be piled up and behind schedule and there's be the famous notice on the job board telling us all that there would be no days off given till further notice and they'd need their printers printing.

same with the basement sewage, if you need to get someone to shovel the crap out of it, then you would need a plumber not a printer.... and you'd be paying a pretty penny for their services I imagine!!!

my point was.... most jobs entail more than just strength.. and it is very well possible that the best, more adapt person isn't really the strongest.
nor does it seem that strength is really that much of a high valued commodity now days in the job market, since the higher paid jobs seem to consist of merely pushing papers across the desk and possibly going out with your clients for a game of golf.

and no, we weren't paid as much as the guys in the shop.... guess maybe the boss valued being able to chat sports with his employees more than actual talent.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: one4all

the first seedlings of feminism sprouted at the same time as the US was sprouting radicals that were dumping tea off the ships docked in the harbors in boston.. matter of fact, it was just another part of a greater radical movement away from authoritarian, "divinely" appointed rulership towards a more free society.
the protestant movement which defied the all powerful spiritual authority of the catholic priest... such a radical idea that common men and women should have the holy scriptures translated into their language, and even a more radical idea that those common people should be taught how to read them!!! ya, it was radical, ya, it even became violent at times, but, maybe, just maybe, it was necessary since it allowed the people to see just how badly the church had twisted those words to enforce and grow their own power and wealth.
next to fall was the all powerful kings and queens and their "divine" rule... again, radical, again, sometimes quite violent, but were those kings and queens gonna surrender their power and grant the people their basic rights any other way??
slavery, worker's rights, child labor, they were all pretty radical ideas, and had occasions of violence associated with them.
of it all, to be honest, I think that the move to grant women the same freedom that was desired by all it seems, was less, radical, less violent than any of what came before it.


Last time I checked the Church was still running the show...sure they allow a wee little rainbow colored sideshow to go on mostly so they have names and numbers for later....lol...and as far as I can see the Royal Families are as powerful as ever if not more so......violence is not allowed into the equation....if it was we wouldnt be having this conversation you would be to busy doing dishes and laundry and would not have time to surf the net JUST KIDDING ........the progress people claim has been made is fictional....the only thing that has changed is that now women dont have to be slaved out into the workforce they volunteer for it and our birthrate in the developed world plummets.....once upon a time a man could endure the slavery on his own shoulders and keep his wife and kids safely out of the game....does someone think men didn't know what the slavery game was in the past....lol....now married or not women have to work so families can survive and where we once campaigned to STOP child slavery the fewer kids we now have are in their early teens working just so they can buy clothes and basics for themselves....many help their Parents with bills and rent....as I look through the history books and look at the artwork of the past I do not ever see women in chains or enslaved....I am not assailed by scenes of misery and hardship.....I am old but not ancient and I can remember HAPPY WOMEN raising their families and living full proeperous lives...I can also say I gave learned from people of the generations before me both male and female that the 60s was a con-job and that most of the women meaning the VAST MAJORITY...were HAPPY in the 60s being a part of the nuclear family....from my research it was a VERY VERY small group of loud fiscally supported women who were the catalysts behind what we know today as Feminism and who were burning their bras in College protests....just another small special interest group funded by people trying to slow down the growth and prosperity of a group of people who were growing and prospering much much to quickly....it is clear and obvious that Feminism was a tactical attack on Western Society and on the Nuclear Family with the express intention of creating cracks in a Societies framework.

a reply to: Peeple


Why do we need feminism?


Don't we have laws now that discrimination based on gender is illegal?


What more does feminism need to combat?

a reply to: one4all

the churches we have today have far less power than they did in their glory days, and the kings and queens have become more or less show pieces with not much real power at all. and, as far as comparing our modern day arrangement of employment with the good ole fashioned slavery and indentured servitude.... or that women weren't in chains... that is utter crap!! and you equate little 7 and 8 year old kids being given dynamite and sent into the small cracks of mines where only a small child would fit or losing fingers in the looms of textile mills with teenagers working part time jobs....
which, by the way, we had when I was a kid also... if we were lucky!!
I grew up in the 60's and 70's...
it's funny, the little 5 and 10 store that was a few blocks from the apartment we were living in was staffed by mostly women. they had a nice little lunch counter, again staffed by women, the cashiers were all women, same with the ice cream shop kitty corner from us. oh, ya, and the bar that was below us....lol... with it's go go dancers. all of my elementary teachers except one were women, some of those teachers had kids that were my classmates at one time or another through the school year. and there was the chocolate factory, the canning factory, along with a few other factories that had plenty of women working. heck, even my mom worked. even in earlier times, there were women in the workforce... even married ones. many of them, like my mom had to work. maybe you just grew up on the other side of the tracks than I did, but I have to say, most of those teachers I spoke of lived in that area of town, so I'm pretty sure that there were a few women working there also. the women were working, many had to, only most of them were restricted to the lowest paid jobs... and even if they worked alongside of the men, they were likely not being paid the same wage.
but, hey, ya know what, my mom finally managed to find herself in a spot where she didn't have to work.... after my father died. then she got her checks from the vetern's administration and social security. at least she had that going for her, unlike previous generations where the widows could have been left destitute, or worse, her husband's wealth confiscated from her, and a guardian put in charge to give her a small allowance till she remarried.

heck even some of the letters that abigail adams wrote to her husband expressed some feminist views asking him to be kinder to women than the english had seen fit to be while forming the new gov't.

a reply to: Peeple

Sorry for the errors, I tried to fix them all, but I'm sure I missed some. Basically, any time i am on ATS, I am on my phone. So, it's not as easy to type as a keyboard would be for example.

Bravo! 👏

The so called feminism that has been making the rounds for... too long... seems to me, to be the opposite of what I thought feminism was. It limits choice, rather than expanding options. It is an enemy of freedom, and an ally to persecution and mental bondage/slavery.

There is an interesting issue we are currently facing. There is or was at one time, a legitimate grievance, and so, lovers of freedom and believers in equality championed the cause.

But when this mission began, was there ever any plan for it to end? Was there a set of goals that we can reach and call it done? Or do women get to claim victim status forever, because no matter how many changes we make in one area, there will still be some idiot man out there treating women poorly in some corner of the world, or there will still be women dressing and acting a certain way to attract men or "steal" them, so, I think it would be healthy for all "feminists" to admit to themselves and to each other openly, that this cause will Never end and they will never be satisfied no matter what changes, within reason, occur. Either that or make a list of reasonable goals that can be reached and not something arbitrary like "women need to be treated better" (who defines "better") or "women need more opportunities" (how much exactly is More), or "equal opportunities to men" (men aren't even equal to each Other, so... And nor should they be).

I think humanity would do well to learn some forgiveness. That's the real core of the issue here. People are not forgiving men for what has happened in the past. That is why the continued, sustained anger subsists for all these decades. Their inability to forgive, to empathize and come to the logical truth that they would have done the same in that situation.

"That situation", meaning you have been raised since birth to believe a certain way, and having no information to draw from other than what you have learned and experienced and ascertained since birth...

That's what people don't realize is that it could just as easily have been them who was the drug addict, or the slave owner, or the abusive spouse, or the boss who pays women less...if you were born in their body, lived their life.

If things were in reverse, there is no "special" thing about the people inhabiting female bodies that would make them do it any differently than men did it.

Obviously, god or whoever, had to make men stronger. Like you say, women Are the holy grail. If they were strong and fast too? They would dominate society in a way that makes male dominated society look like a very fair society!

So, I don't necessarily know if I believe this or not, but the argument Could be made that, we Have to make more money! We have to have some kind of advantage, it can't be women with All the benefits. The reason a man wants to make so much money is so he can share it with a woman he loves... can't you just, let Us feel important too, like we are contributing something worthwhile to society??



We each have our strengths and weaknesses. We can accomplish much by combining our strengths in order to cancel out our weaknesses. But sitting around trying to make everything artificially "equal" in every conceivable way, seems a waste of time and energy.

And it really seems like women are getting the short end of the stick anyway, with this whole feminism thing... Women used to stay at home or run errands or visit with friends while men worked. Think about that. Sure, one way to look at it is "the men are making all the big decisions and doing all the important work". Another way to look at it is the women are the brains of the operation. The queen bees. The masterminds... And the males are the workers, striving to Create Something that will please the females. Every day the man gets up to go to work, the first thing on his mind is the woman he loves. So, all these "important decisions" they make, are heavily influenced by their wives. Look at some of the strong women our strong leaders have had by their side. The more closely you look at these relationships, the less and less clear it becomes, just who exactly is in charge...

Marriage between man and woman ensures that female and male perspectives will have equal footing, no matter if the president is a man or woman. I'm out of time, but thank you Peeple, it has been pleasant ☺ I love women, and often consider myself to be part female 👍 (although I do not expect or demand any special treatment because my partial-womanhood is enough of a strength and benefit as it is!💪)

originally posted by: 3n19m470

I think humanity would do well to learn some forgiveness. That's the real core of the issue here. People are not forgiving men for what has happened in the past. That is why the continued, sustained anger subsists for all these decades. Their inability to forgive, to empathize and come to the logical truth that they would have done the same in that situation.

^^^^^^^

Point being its not in the past yet!!

It is still happening Harvey Weinstein et. al? .....Salary inequalities?

In top places and not simply a support?

It may be getting there But its not there yet

The feminist movement was funded by Rockefeller.

Destroying the family unit is just another way of dividing the people so they can be conquered!!

a reply to: [post=23482465]3n19m470[/post


how do you figure that marriage ensures equal footing, especially if the men are earning the money and making the decisions on what to do with that money?

Women used to stay at home or run errands or visit with friends while men worked. Think about that. Sure, one way to look at it is "the men are making all the big decisions and doing all the important work". Another way to look at it is the women are the brains of the operation. The queen bees. The masterminds... And the males are the workers, striving to Create Something that will please the females.

on the other end of that spectrum though....
women stayed home cleaned house, took care of the kids, forget about running errands or visiting friends because hubby didn't listen to ya when you told him the car wasn't acting right and burnt it up and you watched as the flames shot up out of the carb through the window. and oh ya, instead of bringing that honey home so you can feed the family or buy some clothes from the second hand store, he's off buying boats or whatever else he wishes.
so you get a job, hoping that can at least make enough so your kid can get the medicine he needs when he needs it and have clothes and food to eat. and, you work 8-10 hours a day earning your paycheck, or wait a minute, hubby's paycheck because every time you use independent thought and buy something for yourself... not a big ticket item mind you, but maybe in the $20 or $30 range you are wasting his money.... you're living on four hours sleep a day, broken up because he have to get up in the morning to fix his coffee and get the kids off to school, clean the house, ect... and you find out that you are literally disabling yourself and you find out the nitwit no nothing that they just hired to do a job you've been filling in doing since their last guy got deported because he was in the country illegally started out making a few dollars more than you....
and by that time, you could have really used that few extra dollars an hour because the danged medical bills are now killing your family financially!!!

oh, and by this time you've turn the christian god into a goddess in your head, because you feel cut off from that god....
you quit going to the last church that you attended regularly because you heard a few ladies saying such things such as well, if her husband doesn't want her to come to church, she shouldn't, and well, we have a war every sunday because he wants you home cooking him breakfast. and you can forget about being charitable, because you have absolutely nothing to give, you find yourself lying out the arse every time there's a phone call for your husband, who never wants to take the calls, tells you you are embarrassing him when you choose to wear a tee shirt and slacks to the company picnic instead of shorts and a halter top, and, go figure, every church you go to after that, the preacher starts his danged sermon with the same words....
"Wives obey your husbands....."
so, you invent your own religion, one that serves you and doesn't destroy you...

but ya, I guess feminism has done most of what it intended to, and most women are much more happier now....
since those good ole days are seen as the shining example of tranquility and even some of the younger women are longing to return to that time....

a reply to: dawnstar
What post are you replying to?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

the one that starts out with....

a reply to: Peeple

Sorry for the errors, I tried to fix them all, but I'm sure I missed some. Basically, any time i am on ATS, I am on my phone. So, it's not as easy to type as a keyboard would be for example.