The "Other" #MeToo that isn't covered - the issue that effects many more people

originally posted by: Justso
Sometimes it comes down to self-care. There definitely is a prejudice against the really obese-or if they smell or dress poorly.

It isn't fair. Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.

There is a basic standard which we all know as humans.

I do beieve it is true in many circumstances not focusing on sexual attractiveness and more on intelligence and a pleasant personality can carry a person in directions they had rather pursue than be known only for their looks. I doubt trying to get by on looks alone will carry one up the ladder.

Oh "they're beautiful inside" lol, human nature doesn't work that way. I slutted myself out for promotion in a previous career life, looks and personality was the win.
Human nature, who wants someone who eats too much? ...one of my brothers has a thing for fat women but he's the only person I know, and I think he's odd.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
, the person who gets the job doesn't even know a "Jack and Coke" is the same as "Whiskey and Coke"

Which makes them more qualified than you, because they're not the same thing, trust me, I'm a Scotsman who has worked in a proper Wiskey Bar

I've also been a licensee and as such I had a balanced staff, men and women, honestly I would be lying if I said looks had anything to do with the hiring of my staff, I only hired experienced bar staff. That being said not everyone who runs clubs and bars is the same and I know 2 owners off the top of my head who prefer looks over ability. They had problems with their staff I didn't, like having to sack them because they couldn't get the hang of pouring pints and were unreliable

Didn't deserve being lost at the bottom of the last page.
Same here, local pubs looks don't matter, but tourist bars, got to be the fittest looking staff.
It's human nature, and bar owners take the problems of not hiring the most qualified because it gets the punters in.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I've seen restaurants and bars which have many very qualified applicants for a position such as bar tender and for some odd reason, the person who gets the job doesn't even know a "Jack and Coke" is the same as "Whiskey and Coke"

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks a Jack and Coke is the same as a Whiskey and Coke needs their cognitive process re-evaluated.
IMHO, of course.

a reply to: MteWamp

"Fairness" is an illusion, just like "Equality", and "Security".

If I had written "didn't know Jack Daniels was whiskey" - of someone asked for a whiskey and coke - then said "jack and coke" followed by the response "do you want jack or whiskey".

You are kind of being argumentitive if you say jack daniels isn't a whiskey.

Well since there is so much nit-picking about jack daniels and whiskey, people obviously don't want to admit an issue, maybe b/c they are guilty of it, IDK.

Customer 1 - I'll take a Vodka and tonic
Server - "Ok, and for you sweetie?" (pointing at customer 2)
Customer 2 - "I'll take a Jack Daniels & coke"
server - "We don't have Jack Daniels & Coke. We have Jack Daniels Lemonade, Punch & Peach"
Customer 2 "I want a whiskey & Coke"
Server - "So you don't want Jack Daniels?"
Customer 2- "nevermind, I'll just take a water"
Sever - "sparkling, mineral, tonic, flavored?"
Customer 2- "Actually we'll just the check. Thanks"

originally posted by: schuyler
Ugly girls don't get jobs at Hooters. But they can get jobs as accountants. Life sucks. Deal with what you've got.

The standards at Hooters has gone down over the years. I started going to a Hooters near my office for lunch and I swear some of these chicks would have never been hired in the 90s. I didn't even know they made those orange shirts in some of the sizes some of these chicks require...

When I was a personal trainer the women members at this affluent club flocked to the muscular, good looking trainers and ignored the less than attractive male trainers.

Is that discrimination or just life?

It's life.

It's biology.

It's not "oh wow, that person has great facial features". It's that they look healthy, strong, project an overall healthy and balanced lifestyle which in science equates to a better mating partner.

That's why feminism has it wrong. Fat is not beautiful. Chunky women shaving their heads and dressing like men is not going to make them happier. They'll end up alone and angry.

originally posted by: MysticPearl
When I was a personal trainer the women members at this affluent club flocked to the muscular, good looking trainers and ignored the less than attractive male trainers.

Is that discrimination or just life?

Not if one is a MGTOW follower lol, then it's just women being nasty to less than standard attractive men.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

It "Affects" people, and that causes an "Effect".
Affect happens to it, and an Effect results.
Now you know the difference.

I flagged your thread though because I really like how you can see through all the BS and slice right to the core of the issue. Everything boils down to looks and/or money/power. That's the way it is, has been, and will be.

The deepest realization is that everything is ultimately shallow materialism.

The exceptions are incredibly rare and very noticeable.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
Well I can say that the "personality" excuse/fallback that is all so often used in this topic is very often code word for physical discrimination. I can't see how some people can advocate for treating women as non-sexual objects in one breath, then in another use code words like "personality" (which often as ZERO to do with the job) to support their cause in the next breath. I've seen people with the personality of a door stop and maturity of a 9-10 year old get a job over a mature, qualified person. Often the "personality" ends up causing issues in the work place where their duties aren't completed or are done poorly because they know they got the job over someone more qualified and if they REALLY wanted the duties completed, they would have hired the other person, so it gives them an unspoken pass on slacking. The thing is, the job ads don't state "looking for window dressing who can attract customers", it says something like "bar tender needed to serve and interact with customers".

Nailed it.

Thanks for pointing out the affect/effect. Wish I could change the thread title. Sometimes things like that happen when I edit the thread title after writing the body (change the wording from "the effects on employees") to what it currently is.

IDK if you are being sarcastic in your response b/c there are so many people either nit-picking or being purposefully obtuse in this thread. It seems that some people want to say that this is just natural and that it is fine (while they mock some people) but when it comes to other things that are natural, they demand people to suppress their natural instincts or behaviors. Then there are the people who take any post pointing out issues as complaining when it isn't necessarily complaining but pointing out issues (which have been brought to light by the hypocrisies of modern times).

I can't fault Hooters for hiring the people that they do, it is their specific business model, but the person working there knows they are trading on their looks and shouldn't get upset if a customer hits on them (within reason). The problem is when someone uses sexual dress to further their career/position then turns around and complains when they are objectified as a sexual object.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

The reason that people are going to give you a hard time is because you are challenging their hypocrisies and pointing out our crises in society.

You gotta understand that most of the people here are not outside of the box yet and when confronted with the truth will delve ever further into denial and false justifications, because they themselves perpetuate these double-standards and lewd behaviors. You are essentially calling them out.

I think you did it in a very sensible and reserved manner, so your responses are limited. Our culture here does not react to sensible calm individuals very often.

In my experience, once you embrace the fact you are going to call people out and challenge them directly and demand a higher standard of them - you need to invoke a lot of emotion into it and devise some buzz words and pithy phrases. Then you will have to accept the reality that some people will be so triggered they will flip out on you because they are not cognizant of their own selves nor are they very disciplined. This is the trade off for garnering way more attention and responses. Harden yourself because you will take return-fire.

I personally think that the topic you are covering here in this thread deserves a lot of airtime and if it's approached correctly it could become one of the main topics of our social debates far beyond ATS itself.

Ponder the possibilities and angles that can be taken on this.
Don't necessarily give up on the topic after this thread dies.
There is a ton of content to exploit here. Just be prepared because if you start pouring gasoline all over and then light a fire that it will get hot for awhile.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I agree to a certain extent - At one of my prior jobs, one of the higher-ups got their own "assistant". Pardon my language here, but she was essentially a ditzy, KK-type individual. I could tell why she still had a job: low-cut shirts, and she'd always flirt with the guys. Anyone that has ever done office work would have been more qualified than this person.

One thing that has already been pointed out is this: Places where people eat or shop depend on people shopping there. Let's use the bartender role for example: The main goal of a bar is to bring in as many customers as possible. One of the tried and true ways to do this is put an attractive person in the active role. Many bartenders know how to make their drinks, but the attractive ones get extra attention.

Is it sad that this is the way society is? Yep. However, until more companies lead by example, it's not likely to change. That doesn't mean you (not necessarily you personally) should give up - but challenge what is considered the norm in society: Maybe you should create that metaphorical bar, and prove to society that the average Jane/Joe doesn't need to be attractive to do their job or make the place money.

If you want a world where attractiveness doesn't come into play, you can always join us in the IT-Support world. All you have to do is speak coherently and come dressed as if you just got up (I knew people that...well....wouldn't exactly change out of their pajamas if they were on call at home).

-foss