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Using 7 dimensions to explain quantum properties of the Photon

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posted on May, 24 2018 @ 05:31 PM
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OVERVIEW - Behaviour of the photon in quantum state defies current scientific theory. The anomalies of Superposition and Quantum Entanglement show the classic signs of extra-dimensional properties. This article delves into the seemingly impossible task of rationalising this with our 3D worldview. Download the following link for the pdf file.

7 Dimension


THIS ARTICLE IS SUBJECT TO UPDATE WITHOUT NOTICE




posted on May, 24 2018 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: Cinnamon

Source?

I don't appreciate being handed weird links.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 05:57 PM
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The three extra dimensions are listed as motion,inertia, and distance.
I was hoping the extra dimensions would be time dimensions that helped parse the superimposition of hilbert space.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:29 PM
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at minim you need 7 Dimensions to plot a course in space .
Quantum Physics works IN every dimension we at this time know of at ONCE .
And may even work across dimensions to boot .
Something like photons can littlery exist every ware at the same time under the right conditions .
Case in point the doable slit experiment .
So no math of mans will ever be able to describe quantum effects .
Besides calculating in 7 dimensions is hard enough and takes 1000s of people working for years to do the math and even then one wrong number and a ship crashes .
even with a AI super computer tring to calculate a quantum effect just may not be practical .



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:29 PM
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at minim you need 7 Dimensions to plot a course in space .
Quantum Physics works IN every dimension we at this time know of at ONCE .
And may even work across dimensions to boot .
Something like photons can littlery exist every ware at the same time under the right conditions .
Case in point the doable slit experiment .
So no math of mans will ever be able to describe quantum effects .
Besides calculating in 7 dimensions is hard enough and takes 1000s of people working for years to do the math and even then one wrong number and a ship crashes .
even with a AI super computer tring to calculate a quantum effect just may not be practical .



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Cinnamon

The attached .pdf posits that baryons, mass, electrons and photons are disconnected from temporality but this is clearly not the case in actual and measurable physics.

I might suggest that the basic premise of the paper could possibly be made a little more acceptable if there were particular underlying interrelationships between the dimensions themselves, and that gave conditional effects across dimensions, without a need to apply those relationship rules on an item by item (particle by particle?) basis.

As it stands, the paper does not describe reality.

edit on 24/5/2018 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:45 PM
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Does this mean light occupies more than just three dimensional space and time?



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:47 PM
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Listen you seam like a smart guy but we ( humans do NOT even know all existing dimensions yet .
Every time I look they find more last i heard we are up to 11 and that was years back .
Add to this fact that some how a quantum computer solves a problem even FAST when turned off implys it exists in other universes over lapin our own .
Like the pages of a book each page is its own but all together make the book our dimension is just one page of many .
Now we really dont have proof of this yet so its just theory for now .

But we Humans have a long long way to go before we can even say we understand quantum physics let along invent a math to describe the effect .
It sure will NOT be any mathematical system we use now .

Lord I dont even start to pretend we have even scratched the surface of quantum physics .



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:50 PM
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what really is funny is all the star trek shows ry and immange what teck humans will have in 300 years .
And fact is the teck we already are learning will make all the enterprises look like tug boats lol .



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 07:13 PM
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originally posted by: midnightstar
Listen you seam like a smart guy but we ( humans do NOT even know all existing dimensions yet .
Every time I look they find more last i heard we are up to 11 and that was years back .
Add to this fact that some how a quantum computer solves a problem even FAST when turned off implys it exists in other universes over lapin our own .
Like the pages of a book each page is its own but all together make the book our dimension is just one page of many .
Now we really dont have proof of this yet so its just theory for now .

But we Humans have a long long way to go before we can even say we understand quantum physics let along invent a math to describe the effect .
It sure will NOT be any mathematical system we use now .

Lord I dont even start to pretend we have even scratched the surface of quantum physics .

12

11 - An infinite number of universes within the multiverse
12. An infinite number of multiverses



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: midnightstar

I always return to this thought as well. Just trying to project what knowledge we will obtain in 1000 years is impossible, but there could be beings in our universe with a billion years more knowledge. I say this not too change the subject to ALIENS!, but to give some perspective of what we currently (don't) know.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 10:54 PM
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Good work. Next step is to prove your premise can exists mathematically. Good luck with that.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: Cinnamon

Neo has definitely proven that time doesn’t exist. We live in a 2D world projected into other dimensions. Even Einstein agreed. /(trying not not to be harsh on somebody’s belief but saying science is not about reinforcing a belief).

Or, time is a mathematical construct to prevent your description of reality from being real. From the quantum on up, time has to be there (thereby implying space. How the quanta adds up to the macro world is the argument).

Have heard of Heim?? He argued for 6 dimensions.

Give him and Mach a read. The universe seems to be interconnected in the Mach idea. I haven’t figured out how but think singularities play a part.

Oh, and it is all humming (google is your friend)!

But hey, that is my opinion and somebody here thinks I do not “deny ignorance” so I guess I am a tard. I should fly a “Deny Arrogance” flag but it would fall on deaf ears.

Good luck on your endeavor! I appreciate different ideas and questions of the status quo!

S+F just because!!




posted on May, 25 2018 @ 02:49 AM
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Ping pong balls do not travel on their own accord. They detect and ride the waves created, through the hand which sets in motion. Stop studying the particle science, and study the wave science. Particles are approximators of the wave. If the wave is omnipresent, and photons are quantum values not physical tangible things, we'd expect the exact behavior we observed with our own quantifiers.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 03:38 AM
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OK lets do a critique from the standpoint of a particle physicist as best as my knowledge is currently (might be a tad out of date but lets get stuckin)



yet recent research into the properties of the Electron and light do not lend themselves to the common
permanence of matter.

Citation required, the double slit experiments is not considered recent research, its treatment is fascinating and the philosophy behind its interpretation very deep. Also 'common permanence of matter' is a meaningless phrase in terms of expressing what i believe you are trying to express



The particle seems to exist in two places at once!


Yes and no - again, this goes back to the philosophical treatment of the problem. One treatment can stand totally within Quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle that says, as we do not know the momentum of the particle, it may have a in-determined location within certain limits. In quantum mechanics what you need to understand is that everything is defined in terms of probability distribution functions and expectation values... not absolutes. an observer, is effectively the first point of interaction of the system, thus in this case, the observer is the slit, the waveform breaks down demanding that the particle is going through one slit or the other. This is not pre-determined by the source of the photons, or electrons.
This is one such treatment, it violates no laws of physics, and doesn't require there to be any extra dimensions....



This behaviour gives rise to paradoxical effects; any measurement of a physical state will change the quantum property,
and in the case of entangles particles this measurement will change the property of the other
particle pair. Thus implying a communication between particles even at large distances (and
greatly faster than the speed of light).


You need to check the language being used, you referred to a pair when you mean a singular. You are also referring to spin in terms of the meaning of the word spin in classical terms. It isn't a physical property as though a particle is spinning, more a quantum mechanical property. So spin is often refered to as Postive or negative, though i am nit-picking here admittedly. The communication implied has many treatments, again, not really requiring extra dimensions. One treatment that fits just fine is that, the pair are born each with intrinsic spin, our knowledge of one, automatically gives us the other, it doesn't HAVE to communicate. This is similar to the Schrödinger's cat experiment which is not really supposed to be thought of literally that the cat is alive and dead at the same time, more that, its a nice way of explaining the property of superposition when thinking about physics processes. Either way, i do not see why extra dimensions has to be invoked, so i will keep reading.
1/3
edit on 25-5-2018 by ErosA433 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 03:52 AM
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The idea of extra Dimensions have been bandied around by String Theory, but I shall attempt to
package Matter and Force into additional dimensions, solely to explain the behaviour of the Electron


Extra dimensions are not solely a tenant of string theory... and, its treatment in string theory, is not an absolute either, string theory has zero observables over models we have, thus isn't really evidence or motivation in this case once you understand that. Regardless... lets look at the electron.



The reason for ascribing the Electron to a different dimension from ‘ordinary’ matter stems from
the fact that basic Atomic matter definitely does not occupy two places at once and that ‘instant’
communication requires a separation from Baryon Matter and Gravity to stand even the slightest
chance of being explained.

Two assumptions that you state as fact and yet you cannot state them as fact at all, because they are simply not true. You can totally show that ordinary atomic matter absolutely ascribes to the uncertainty principle in that definite position is unknown based upon your absolute knowledge of momenum. in this case, lets look at temperature. Atomic matter such as a hydrogen atom, you have a fuzzy blob of a proton, that has no definite location, is being bonded with an electron, which has no definite size, and also has no definite location. Its location relative to the proton, is defined by a probability distribution function.

Quantum mechanics demonstrates this perfectly fine, and measurements confirm this treatment to be good.

You then invoke gravity? it is not at all clear why.



What were 3 Dimensions and Time have been split into 7, with Time (or Entropy) being given a
definite entry. After the first 4 Dimensions we now have 3 more, seemingly duplicating the
attributes of 3 Dimensional space! This is done to quantify the Electron, which does not share the
properties of normal matter.


Again, how does the electron not share properties of normal matter, you have stated this but in no part have you built a compelling argument for it other than an apparent lack of understanding of quantum mechanics. You appear to be building an argument for this on the premise of "If you ignore theory that works, we can make up something else" Electrons share properties of normal matter such as, mass, spin, charge... so your statement is in no way correct there are a couple hundred years of experimentation that show this.



Motion is now given a separate Dimension, distinct from that which we would label 3D movement
and Motion and Inertia are removed from the Dimensions that Gravity occupies. This is because if
Gravity became all dominant, there would be no divisible mass, hence no movement or Inertia.
You will also note that Distance is now described as a separate Dimension, yet this is not to
confuse popular Geometry but for two reasons. Firstly on a Universal annotation, two separate 3D
coordinates have progressively less and less identity the further away the viewpoint until
eventually Distance must also be included for the locations. Secondly, Baryons are not associated
with speeds anything close to that of Light.


OK where to begin... Motion by your definition should be given 3 dimentions motion vectors in x/y/z If you want to say it is a single dimension in magnitude, fine, but, motion by all definition is, change of distance given a passage of time. I see no requirement for it to be its on dimension based on your reasoning. Same for distance, it is a compound of the two. "Progressively less and less identity the further away the viewpoint." this sentence is meaningless or very badly constructed to express what it is your are saying.
Also who says baryons are not associated with speeds anything close to that of light? once again, experimental measurements and indeed the machines humanity have produced will argue that this statement is completely incorrect and without merit. Baryons have relativistic properties... this is very well established



The Free Neutron shares the first 3 Dimensions of Baryons and includes Time but not Inertia. This
is because it has a Spatial Coordinate but no appreciable Mass, yet decays after 9mins or so
isolated from the Atom.

The free neutron by all measurements, has mass, and would carry an equivalent of inertia... sure you may argue its mass is inferred however should it carry no 'inertia' then interactions such as scattering would not be possible...



Bosons are Force Carriers, have a Binding Force and a transmit Interactions but have no physical
state when ‘neutral’ therefore do not occupy the first 3 Dimensions (although I have not included
Composite Bosons).
Temperature is separated from Baryon Matter and Inertia but not Time or Motion. Since it has no
Mass yet causes Atomic motion, dissipates over Time and although has an action over a Distance,
this is carried by the Photon.

where to start here.... by your own definition, transmitting an interaction encodes location... thus they are REQUiRED to have properties in the first 3 dimensions...
Temperature is a manifestation of motion, sure... it does not dissipate over time. In Physics, we know this, it doesn't dissipate over time without some form of interaction, so your statement is purely that Temperature is a property of photons.

This is an incorrect treatment of temperature based upon what we know and observe in the universe. It appears to be a confused statement which has many many problems, which could be a thread on its own.



Lastly to the Electron which occupies the Dimensions of Motion, Inertia and Distance. Electrons
can move, and voltage is an expression of the speed of the Electron. Exceedingly bright light will
carry inertia which can be transferred to inanimate objects. Finally Distance, since the Photon can
affect matter over a great distance and this is included alongside Bosons and Gravity.

Once more, where to start... electrons have mass, this is very well measured and understood. As do Baryons... so your separation of dimensions or properties intrinsically doesn't describe observed physics and makes little to no logical sense. Voltage is not an expression of speed of the electron, it is an expression of 'potential energy gain of an electron passing between a potential difference' at the very most it is an expression of acceleration... it itself is not at all a velocity, this statement is incorrect.
Your final statement assumes that photons now because of this treatment, may have infinite velocity... action at distance. along side bosons and gravity.

This too is incorrect. We can easily show that photons have limited velocity, as do bosons and gravity. Heck, In the lab right now I have an experiment measuring a few different properties of photo-sensitive devices, sensitive to single photons of light. I have a light source that produces laser pulses with picosecond widths, I can easily see the time difference between emission of the light, and two different photosensors positioned at two different locations. Light, does have finite speed... your statement here appears to say the electron and photon are the same... but are not the same while sharing identical dimensions... so what separates them? once again, logically inconsistent.

2/3
edit on 25-5-2018 by ErosA433 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 04:17 AM
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and final post...



The Electron without constraints of Time or Physical Entity
The purpose of decoupling the Electron/Photon from the attributes of Baryons and Time is to
enable us to provide it the necessary physical freedom to:
• Occupy a ‘Superposition’ that being a state of matter distinct from Baryons and their 3D spatial
coordinate. Without this constraint a Photon is enabled dual existence.

Not required unless you refuse to understand or believe in quantum mechanics stipulations as per discussion above, the reasons you provide is also confused and irrelevant



• Enable ‘Quantum Entanglement’ that is a correlation of information without apparent division of
Space or Time when measured. Gravity also occupies one of the Dimensions of the Photon and
this is reflected by the fact that Light has a finite speed and inertia but since information has no
weight, the transfer can be instantaneous.

once more, not required and confusing use of language... weight or mass... your mixing of these while nit-picking, points at a lack of understanding of properties of matter and such begs the question if you understand the basic quantum mechanics you wish to replace, and if your proposal is required or indeed makes any sense... i stipulate that it doesn't make sense and isn't required.

You want a information carrier to have infinite velocity, you have proposed none... photons have no 'weight' (mass) so by the same definition, should have infinite velocity. Photons carry information, it is encoded in terms of their physical property and manifestation in polarization and energy. So, your treatment is both non-sensical and logically inconsistent.



• What is more the possibility arrives that if the Electron is so manipulated then unusual
physical phenomena might be observed. That being;
Unexpected movement of Baryon matter
A nullifying of Inertia
Length contraction of distance by travelling objects
Since the Electron is so distinct in its physical behaviour that only extra dimensions can provide for
this.

As per above, it predicts things that cannot happen for the reasons above. It is more of a wish list which you have attempted to justify by complex word salad. Your diagram of dimensions is logically inconsistent with your explanation and your understanding of known particle physics is lacking... to lacking to create a model as such as you tried.


I can give you an example of a model, which we have an observable, which only works if you consider an object in 7 dimensions... That is, a white dwarf star.

A white dwarf star can only exist if quantum mechanical pressure prevents collapse. By treating the electrons inside the star to exist as a relativistic fermi-gas, you have to fill quantum states with electrons until there are no states to fill. Once that is true, the attempt to compress the object and add more electrons to the filled states creates a degeneracy pressure.

The treatment of this only works if you have 3 regular dimensions, x, y, z which define a volume in which a quantum mechanical state can be held. and 3 momentum states, in Kx,Ky,Kz. So here you go, a real example which requires 7 dimensions. Each of those Physical XYZ volume 'pockets' have an overlaying Momentum 'pocket' in which you may store quantum mechanical states.

Once you figure out the equation of state for this, you can work out what are the theoretical mass limits both in low mass and high mass, for a white dwarf... we then get our astronomer friends to look for these objects... bam... turns out the treatment works fine and predicts correctly.

What most theorists mean by extra dimensions is none composite dimensions that exist and can carry their own properties, or super positions of all observe properties over/under the currently observed one. Rather than treatment of physical properties as dimensions...



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 08:54 AM
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BLANKET REPLY

This is a basic concept to allow the photon freedom from the properties of 'solid' matter. If the photon does not exist in the first 4 dimensions it can have it's Quantum properties without violation. Superposition has been applied for large atomic groups, Qubit computing for instance, but this theory concerns the photon first and an upcoming experiment involving photon activated logic gates by Japanese and Israeli scientists. The dimension graph does not deny that baryons share some similarity with photons.
The idea of distance applying to bosons and gravity is due to baryonic matter traditionally not having such velocity or effect over distance. True, baryons have been detected close to light speed but in Universal terms, galaxies seem fairly stationary - light has traveled 13bn light-years. The difference is obvious.
Bosons are known as force carriers and do have mass but decay very quickly. Typically they are observed as jets. Although the W and Z boson weigh more than an Iron atom this is inconsequential compared to kilogrammes of Iron or Gigatons of planetary mass. To compare them would result in infinites which must be avoided in Mathematics.
Heat occupies the 4th and 5th dimension due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, but not the 7th since it's force carrier is the photon. The 4th is part because the release of heat is not instantaneous and the 5th because heat causes motion of atoms.
I could add another dimension to include spin, polarity, charge, etc but it's properties might already be incorporated to existing dimensions and this is not the subject of the post.

edit on 25-5-2018 by Cinnamon because: syntax, pic link



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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7 dimension update

Click on above link for pdf




edit on 27-5-2018 by Cinnamon because: added text



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