Russia and the Skripal Assasination Attempt.

a reply to: Fermy

Thank you for that link.

It says,

The samples tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent or closely related agent.

Translation: Novichok is still the prime suspect.

True its not 100% proven but that is why further testing is being carried out by the OPCW to get a independent assessment of what poison was used and to provide some independent corroboration of the findings of Porton Down.

additionally I would add that although the assessment of proton down is vital it is only one bit of information that will be making up a wider picture pointing at a suspect. For me I would still have to say that the case against Russia is very strong, its not yet at the stage of haven been proven and we should keep a open mind but they remain the prime suspects.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Fermy

Thank you for that link.

It says,

The samples tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent or closely related agent.

Translation: Novichok is still the prime suspect.

True its not 100% proven but that is why further testing is being carried out by the OPCW to get a independent assessment of what poison was used and to provide some independent corroboration of the findings of Porton Down.

additionally I would add that although the assessment of proton down is vital it is only one bit of information that will be making up a wider picture pointing at a suspect. For me I would still have to say that the case against Russia is very strong, its not yet at the stage of haven been proven and we should keep a open mind but they remain the prime suspects.

YOUR translation to be clear, yes?
If you were up in court on a murder charge, would you accept as fair judgment that stated that you were the culprit OR SOME CLOSELY RELATED AGENT ? There is nothing here that is 100% , supposition is just that. My feelings are that if you are going to assert XYZ did the deed then you need to provide unequivocal evidence otherwise you're just throwing risky conjecture into the ring.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Sure. :rolleyes icon:

a reply to: Fermy

That was not a Court trying a murder charge. It was an application under the Mental Capacity act.There is an independent investigation by the OPCW with the results expected in a couple of weeks. The Police investigation is ongoing.

a reply to: Fermy

Whatever.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Fermy

Whatever.

I provided the link you requested, how you wish to interpret it is up to you.

Oh, you already have.

a reply to: Fermy


Did you not understand what I wrote? It is not compulsory to agree with you, you know.

a reply to: Fermy

YOUR translation to be clear, yes?

No the strongest possibility right now is that it was Novichok, although it may also have been another similar substance. Intelligence is never absolute its only ever about a degree of confidence in said intelligence and that is what this is. This substance is most likely to have been a type of Novichok developed by the Russian state.

here is nothing here that is 100%

Agreed.

Like I said above when it comes to dealing with the world of intelligence nothing is ever really 100% its all down to degrees of connivance in something being held as true.

My feelings are that if you are going to assert XYZ did the deed then you need to provide unequivocal evidence otherwise you're just throwing risky conjecture into the ring.

Again I agree but I would add that you have to allow time for the authorities to gather said information. There is always that old problem of what you know vs what you can prove and I think that could be a issue here if the intelligence used to determine the type of toxin used compromises uk intelligence assists/techniques. You could be arrested but the police will still be gathering evidence to support a conviction against you if you kill someone for example, these things take time. I think with time we will get some kind of proof that this was Russia.

Out of curiosity what would you regard as proof it was Russia?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I have no idea how it can be proven, I'll let the accusers do that if they wish to retain any credibility. Yes, the finger points at Russia but that is all. And the police will release you without strong evidence/proof. So far we have a nerve agent, once invented by the Soviet Union, now available to all and sundry. Russia came up with the AK47, that doesn't make them culpable for all shootings with such or copied derivatives. And the secret service is awash with lies, disinformation, spin and plain old murder, no one is innocent, all are capable of crimes against humanity therefore we cannot rule out other hands work here. Remember WMD and the tsunami of BS that preceded that hysteria?

originally posted by: Fermy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


I have no idea how it can be proven, I'll let the accusers do that if they wish to retain any credibility. Yes, the finger points at Russia but that is all. And the police will release you without strong evidence/proof. So far we have a nerve agent, once invented by the Soviet Union, now available to all and sundry. Russia came up with the AK47, that doesn't make them culpable for all shootings with such or copied derivatives. And the secret service is awash with lies, disinformation, spin and plain old murder, no one is innocent, all are capable of crimes against humanity therefore we cannot rule out other hands work here. Remember WMD and the tsunami of BS that preceded that hysteria?

Fermy, this is the entire basis of my statements as well.

I have no problem accepting the possibility or even the likelihood Russia is behind the attack. They certainly do have a motive. But as you said, so does British Intelligence and possibly a dozen other state/non-state actors

I would just like to see some kind of evidence. The accusation has already been made publically, and the case has too much riding on it not to make the evidence public. Good evidence must always be able to withstand maximum scrutiny. Anything less is an Iraq WMD-style farce, IMHO. Never falling for that one again, personally...

And as former President Bush had such a tough time saying, "Fool me once shame on them, fool me twice shame on me."

After looking at Yulia Skripal's interview with the British media, I wonder what insanity will media claim next !

originally posted by: Flanker86
I wonder what insanity will media claim next !

Yes, totally agree. The Russian state run propaganda system e.g. RT.com are still trying to spin this story. They are still maintaining the Skripal's are being held against their will, and that they were "allegedly" poisoned. Like it's all been made up. Russian media is a joke.