Another spate of "Get The Guns!" threads...

Ever notice how when one of these shootings happen, whatever news they were reporting on beforehand just goes silent?

I wonder what the big news story was 24-48 hours before the shorting happened?

I vaguely remember something about a memo.....

And also, why is nobody talking about the fact that the worst shooting in recent history have been committed by people on SSRI's. maybe a correlation there?

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Ever notice how when one of these shootings happen, whatever news they were reporting on beforehand just goes silent?

I wonder what the big news story was 24-48 hours before the shorting happened?

I vaguely remember something about a memo.....

And also, why is nobody talking about the fact that the worst shooting in recent history have been committed by people on SSRI's. maybe a correlation there?

I believe these points are covered in a number of ATS threads, so we're not asleep on the job, sir!

I'm a sportsman and I hunt. Assault weapons need to be banned. The Colorado shooter Vegas shooter and Florida shooter all used AR15's. It's clear the weapon of choice is the AR. Banning assault weapons isn't going to solve all the problems but it's a start.

originally posted by: wantsome
Banning assault weapons isn't going to solve all the problems but it's a start.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have the mentality of: "It's not going to completely solve the problem so let's not do anything."

a reply to: wantsome

Question - How does an Unemployed 18 Year Old Effed Up in the Head Kid get his hands on a AR15 with Numerous Mags , and Smoke Grenades to Boot ? His Only Mistake was Not Killing Himself during the End of this Heinous Crime , or this would be the Same Scenario of the Other Numerous Suspicious Shooter Crimes Committed in this Country in the Last 10 Years.........Hmm...

originally posted by: wantsome
I'm a sportsman and I hunt. Assault weapons need to be banned. The Colorado shooter Vegas shooter and Florida shooter all used AR15's. It's clear the weapon of choice is the AR. Banning assault weapons isn't going to solve all the problems but it's a start.

What makes my m4a1 an assault rifle? Would I be less of a threat with my Tikka t3 300wsm at 800 yards? Hell, a 100 rd drum clip in a .22 ruger 1022 could result in more fatalities than an AR15. The weapon of choice are AR15s because people think they're tacticool. If someone believes removing a single gun model will end these shootings, they aren't thinking clearly.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: wantsome

Question - How does an Unemployed 18 Year Old Effed Up in the Head Kid get his hands on a AR15 with Numerous Mags , and Smoke Grenades to Boot ? His Only Mistake was Not Killing Himself during the End of this Heinous Crime , or this would be the Same Scenario of the Other Numerous Suspicious Shooter Crimes Committed in this Country in the Last 10 Years.........Hmm...

Yeah I've been wondering the same thing. If he took the gun from someone they need to be prosecuted for not having it secured.

originally posted by: wantsome
If he took the gun from someone they need to be prosecuted for not having it secured.

What's the point? That would accomplish exactly nothing.

originally posted by: wantsome

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: wantsome

Question - How does an Unemployed 18 Year Old Effed Up in the Head Kid get his hands on a AR15 with Numerous Mags , and Smoke Grenades to Boot ? His Only Mistake was Not Killing Himself during the End of this Heinous Crime , or this would be the Same Scenario of the Other Numerous Suspicious Shooter Crimes Committed in this Country in the Last 10 Years.........Hmm...

Yeah I've been wondering the same thing. If he took the gun from someone they need to be prosecuted for not having it secured.

Agreed. I'm okay with common sense gun control. A rigorous safety class and a mental aptitude test to purchase a firearm along with being able to prove they can keep the weapon secure and safe from children. That's not only a fair compromise but it would definitely cut down on accidental deaths involving guns regardless.

a reply to: wantsome

It'll actually solve an incredibly minute portion of killings in the US.

To save more lives the easiest way is to stop soldiers from killing themselves. They represent the majority of all gun deaths each year. From there, turn your attention to urban shootings and how to stop those.

Way down the list would be killings with any form of rifle.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
It's just part of American identity, you value your guns more than your kids. I get why you're pissed off, its too late now to stop, its steeped in your cultural identity to own guns, people think you can change it, but you cant.

I have to disagree.

We do not value guns more than our children. We value freedom. It is unfortunate that the battle for our freedom is often fought in the field of firearms.

Your argument would be better suited to automobiles. Car accidents kill tens of thousands of people every year, far more than firearms, but no one says word one about banning cars. Cars are not guaranteed in the Constitution nor is an easy commute yet we gladly sacrifice these lives every year to keep our garages full.

You won't hear, "What about the children?" in this argument either. The children are in their car seats in the back. And if they die tragically in a car accident we will mourn them and move on with our lives because an easy commute and a heated seat in the winter are something we just can't live without. Never mind that in Asia most people ride bikes or take public transportation to and from work. We won't do that. How can we show off the new BMW if we ride a bike to work? The only people who ride bikes to work are the guys who lost their license to a DUI.

Please stop the car accident comparison. Everyone who goes out and drives a car should recognize the risk. Going to school should not involve risk, except for the getting there and back part while driving.

The answer of course is gun control and well regulated and funded state militias. The guns in question should be safely kept by the militia until the time that government tyranny rears its head. When that occurs, the guns can be used for their intended purposes. Militia members would be free to go to their militias and have as much practice as they desire.

So tens of thousands of preventable deaths are ok because they knew the risk when they got in the car? I don't think so. The deaths are tolerated because the solution would be inconvenient to too many people. An easy commute and the ability to earn a living place higher on the list than those lives. Those cars that are killing all those people every year are not a Constitutionally guaranteed right. They are a convenience and nothing more. Maybe going to school should not involve risk, but recent history shows us it clearly does. Maybe you weren't aware of that but I grew up in Chicago. That knowledge has been part of my life for a very long time. You are just starting to catch up but you are still behind as are your solutions. Some of us have been aware of and dealing with that risk for decades. Welcome to the party.

originally posted by: wantsome
I'm a sportsman and I hunt. Assault weapons need to be banned. The Colorado shooter Vegas shooter and Florida shooter all used AR15's. It's clear the weapon of choice is the AR. Banning assault weapons isn't going to solve all the problems but it's a start.

Well, not to broken record this but, an AR15 is not an assault rifle. We need to be careful with the terminology. The AR15 available to the general public does not have a select fire option, as in full automatic firing. It is simply a semi-automatic rifle with very common action used in a variety of rifles besides the AR15 including hunting rifles. You pull the trigger one time and it fires one time. That is not an assault rifle.

In essence, you are talking about banning your own guns.

Right? As if Capital Punishment or life in prison, for the crime of murder, isn't enough. Pass some gun laws... and those self same folks that were hell bent on killing others are just going to say:

"WHOA WHOA whoa whoa... wait a cotton pickin minute here!!!! I was willing to deal with lethal injection for murder... but you're going to add a few years on for violation of this new gun statute? WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO!!!

Screw that!!! To hell with my murderous rampage Ideas... I can't abide by getting 10 years for a gun law violation... murder conviction I can deal with... but gun laws?! NO WAY!!!"

Easy there cowboy!!!

Mass media makes billions of dollars of those Pharmaceutical advertisements!

We need to leave the SSRI Black Box Warning adverse events stuff ALONE! You trying to kill off the media or something?

a reply to: wantsome

I'm a sportsman and I hunt. Assault weapons need to be banned. The Colorado shooter Vegas shooter and Florida shooter all used AR15's. It's clear the weapon of choice is the AR. Banning assault weapons isn't going to solve all the problems but it's a start.

Same here, avid hunter and competitive shooter.

I have nothing against private ownership of AR15's, I don't see them as "assault weapons" any more than I do a semi auto .22. My Glock 19 can take 33 round magazines, does that make it an assault weapon? I guess it would if I CHOSE to use it for an assault.

Myself I have no need for a .223/5.56, too powerful for small game and not enough for a clean kill on deer.

I don't want to see anything banned, he who is motivated will find a way. If anything raise the legal purchase and ownership age to 21 for any and all firearms. There's a lot of 18 year olds that lack the responsibility and maturity.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I didnt think the car accident was a suitable comparison, as in they are generally accidents and not malicious like these shootings. But i think it boils down to education and training, for both scenarios!
Better driver training will potentially reduce accidents resulting in death. Better training and education with guns would surely help?
Someone mentioned earlier about tighter gun control in reference to selection criteria, i agree. More stringent checks and interview process to deduce how suitable the applicant is to hold a firearm licence.
Then another member retorted with "god given right" to bear arms. And another comment along the lines of "why should we pay for an application to bear arms when its a constitutional right " or something to that affect.
'God' never gave anyone any rights, rules and regulations are inventions of man, fullstop.
The world changes, and laws made how ever many decades or centuries ago, may require adjustments to stay relevant.
As far as deserving a gun because the constitution says so, without prior training, is just down right silly. One must be competent and trained in the use of a deadly weapon like this, just like a licence to drive a car, beforr being given clearance to do so.

I do live in Australia where this problem does not exist like in the US, so perhaps my opinion is biased, but i think tightening access to guns is a must. Continued training and also monitoring of owners mental health regularly could help?!

Now we have the russian bot nets on the web calling for gun control and anti gun control at the same time.

They don't care about gun control they only care about creating descent in the US.

a reply to: billytron

I use the comparison to car accidents to point out that the argument of doing whatever we have to do to save lives is not as important as people would like to believe as demonstrated by the fact that an easy commute is more important than the tens of thousands of lives lost every year to car accidents. The accidents are mostly exactly that, not intentional. But in recent years we have seen multiple incidents where a vehicle was used as a weapon. The two are becoming more alike as time passes.

As for the right to own firearms the Constitution is quite clear: shall not be infringed. The problem is that right was infringed in 1934 and again in 1968. And the call to infringe further is a daily event. Many people wonder why they have to ask permission and pay a fee to enjoy a Constitutionally guaranteed right. That sounds more like a privilege. Given their way, the anti gun crowd would have ownership trimmed to a select few who met their standards. The Constitution makes no such reference.

As for change, I will never accept the notion that the Constitution is outdated and needs to change. If we are to accept the idea that any part of that sacred document is outdated and no longer applies then we may as well scrap the whole thing. Which is exactly what will happen once we start down that road. Give an inch - they take a mile. That document is based on principles, ideals that transcend time. The right to bear arms has not changed regardless of advancements in technology.

As for training, I think that is a good idea. Go back a hundred years or so and everyone had guns. But no rampant massacres. People learned to shoot from their parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. It was part of life. The tools were respected as were the lives around them. I just read an autobiography by a man who told a story of when he was 12 or 13 years old and used to hunt birds by himself with a shotgun to help feed his family during the depression. He was taught how to use the gun and respect it. It reminded me of rabbit and squirrel hunting with the dad and my uncle. Both were amazing with a rifle. My uncle was a trick shot master. He would put a piece of poster board or wood on a target then start shooting with a .22 rifle. When he was finished if you put a light behind the target you could see the picture he drew with the bullets. It was amazing art. Not a problem was had. Training is a good thing.

The issue of mental health is a tough one. The diagnosis of depression is rampant in this country. If you admit you have been sad for any reason you are an inch away from a clinical diagnosis. Its just another way many are coddled and placated in today's society. Its not your fault, you are depressed. Here is some hot chocolate and an antidepressant. No say goodbye to your second amendment rights. In the past people who said they felt helpless and unfulfilled were told to tough it out and get on with their lives. And no mass shootings. Even without antidepressants. Go figure...

Lol, nice try. Firstly..... Chicago is one of the safest cities on the planet. Sorry if that disagrees with the rwnj am radio pint or fantasy. nypost.com...

Secondly the analogy (probably a fantasy) has nothing to do with mass murder. One man with a baseball bat isn’t going to cause violence at the levels of these mass shootings.

And if you need an accounting regarding price we all pay in the form of lack of freedom thanks to other methods of mass murder. I suggest you educate yourself with a quick google before demonstrating your total lack of depth on the subject matter.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

a reply to: soundguy

Hahaha...omg...

Firstly, not even a nice try. That was just sad.

You quote a liberal rag that just happens to constantly try to undermine anything Trump says in some bizarre twist of statistics trying to make Chicago sound like a safe city when Trump says its not. The only category, per your link, that Chicago scored highly in is digital surveillance. Just ignore the thousands of murders, right?

I have lived in and around Chicago my whole life. I don't need to educate myself on this city. I teach the class. But I guess from your perspective in Ohio you know more than I do. One of Chicago's highest ranking police commanders was just gunned down in broad daylight. I bet his family is relieved to know you think Chicago is so safe.

If you are going to accuse me of lying you had best have some proof when you do it. Ad-hom attacks show just how desperate you are to prove your lame point.

There was no fantasy involved and it applied very directly to the conversation at hand, though I am not the least bit surprised that you missed it completely. Your response was so vacuous it does not surprise me that you put no thought whatsoever in to it. You were spoon fed your so-called facts, cherry picked the only source that would ever say Chicago is a safe city, and ran with it.

The connection between my friends murder and the mass shootings was stated very clearly but I will state it again, with undo emphasis, for the intellectually challenged - you.

Part of the problem of solving the gun violence is that the media, and a portion of the less educated public who believe the media, do not blame the people who commit these crimes, they blame the tools used. It is disingenuous to blame the tool rather than the person only when referring to crimes involving firearms. By misdirecting the attention to the tools used the real solution is lost. My friend was killed by a gang according to the news. The other teen, according to the same news station, was killed by a gun. Do you see the difference and are you capable of admitting it? It is relevant. It does matter. It is part of the purpose of this thread - to try to find a solution to this problem by first accurately identifying the problem that needs solved.

Your lack-witted response shows me just how well the misdirection and misinformation campaign has worked. Either that or you never had much of a grasp in the first place. I will not be putting odds one either of those options...