Rand Paul on Donald Trump's DACA Decision | Illegal Immigration

This is the most grounded perspective I've heard in a while. I generally side with Thomas Jefferson on this issue, if immigrants come here and they are not trying to usurp out political process or attack us with a population invasion then I have no problem with it.



I do get that laws need to be followed but they also need to make sense and they need to stay true to our founding values. This country is suppose to represent freedom and liberty and it needs to get back to it's roots.

originally posted by: toysforadults
This is the most grounded perspective I've heard in a while. I generally side with Thomas Jefferson on this issue, if immigrants come here and they are not trying to usurp out political process or attack us with a population invasion then I have no problem with it.

I do get that laws need to be followed but they also need to make sense and they need to stay true to our founding values. This country is suppose to represent freedom and liberty and it needs to get back to it's roots.

Before I listen to it, I'll say this. I live in a foreign country. If I stay here illegally, the law gives a chance for me to file a stay of residency. (it is rare here to be granted , otherwise those with money around the world would be flocking to Japan) If I break any laws even over staying my visa, I can and will be deported. I think it is the same way in America.

a reply to: musicismagic

that's not how it works here, here you don't have to follow the laws

it bugs me but I also believe in freedom and government limiting movement is one of those freedoms I don't want the government regulating, any government

if I want to live or move somewhere else it's none of the governments damn business

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: musicismagic

that's not how it works here, here you don't have to follow the laws

it bugs me but I also believe in freedom and government limiting movement is one of those freedoms I don't want the government regulating, any government

if I want to live or move somewhere else it's none of the governments damn business

Have you tried moving to North Korea or even better yet, Hong Kong.

a reply to: musicismagic

if I want to live or move somewhere else it's none of the governments damn business

just wanted to highlight that for you

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: musicismagic

if I want to live or move somewhere else it's none of the governments damn business

just wanted to highlight that for you

You might be a bit uneducated on such matters when it comes to living outside the USA.

a reply to: musicismagic

I don't care what country makes that rule I will still feel the same way regardless. It's not the governments business who moves where.

a reply to: toysforadults

Freedom of movement is a great thing, but it has to regulated. That quote he used is unavoidably realistic, 'It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state.'

a reply to: Kandinsky

Yes but there shouldn't be a welfare state for either corporations or the people. 501c status exist for a reason.

You probably agree with my premise that freedom of movement is a basic right.

You do believe that don't you?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: musicismagic

if I want to live or move somewhere else it's none of the governments damn business

just wanted to highlight that for you

This is interesting to me, not just because of what musicmagic brought up, but because the US is one of two countries, from what I have seen, that actually tax gains from their people, wanted to say citizens but it seems that recent laws make it apply to even green card holders, even if they no longer live in the US or US territories.

Of course, I think musicmagic's point is that it might not be your governments business but it is the business of the country you are going to and there are rules in those places, not that you can't work around them.

On topic: I think Rand's speech is pretty solid. He said a few times that rules mean something but that a compromise can be made and that would be to make congress work in passing legislation that can be used to bring these illegals into the fold, as long as they meet certain criteria. Sounds fair to me. At least that is what I got from what he said.

Damn , some folks on the thread need to learn about geopolitics and what it means to be a sovereign country...
And , apparently , one highly irrelevant Rand Paul as well .

a reply to: toysforadults

It's never so straightforward in my mind. Yes, people have a basic right to movement and countries have a basic right to set a minimum standard. Somewhere in the middle should be the best-fit scenario.

The welfare state is something else and the accountability of corps to pay taxes is part of it.

a reply to: Gothmog

Why? Doesn't being sovereign mean that you get to make up your own laws?

I must have missed the part where he said someone other than congress can make the applicable rules.

a reply to: toysforadults

In the video he said we throw "too much money" at border security.

The dollars allocated may be tremendous (which is a relative term) but where does that money go?

Regardless of where anyone stands on the issues pertaining to illegal immigrants, I challenge anyone to describe a scenario where the United States has "secure" borders. I'll point out that I'm not referencing Mexico (and Central Americans that use Mexico as a vein into the United States) but also populations from other nations that abuse our visa programs.

As a nation we "spend" tons of money on borders and security but until the time comes that those monies are spent in a way that materially secures those borders.... well, Paul can talk and talk and use many words without saying anything.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Kandinsky

Yes but there shouldn't be a welfare state for either corporations or the people. 501c status exist for a reason.

You probably agree with my premise that freedom of movement is a basic right.

You do believe that don't you?

Your freedom of movement ends when someone elses freedom to be secure is infringed. MOving across private property is a good example. You are free to move but they ar ealso free to have you arrested. see your right to movement was not infringed. even in cuffs you can still move.

No governments protect their citizens they do have a right to refuse your right to freedom of movement to a point.

a reply to: eluryh22

Maybe he was referring to effectiveness? If over half of the illegals are in the US because they overstay their visas then what good does throwing money on patrolling the southern border going to do, when the majority are flying in.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: eluryh22

Maybe he was referring to effectiveness? If over half of the illegals are in the US because they overstay their visas then what good does throwing money on patrolling the southern border going to do, when the majority are flying in.

Well, the ones flying in tend to be richer and better educated than the ones sneaking in across the porous border.

So, when you prune the flock, you start with the least desirable first.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Not necessarily, and I say this knowing a few who have flown in, but it also depends on what you need them to do.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: musicismagic

I don't care what country makes that rule I will still feel the same way regardless. It's not the governments business who moves where.

I think you are a military personal who doesn't want to be in the military .

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: toysforadults

Freedom of movement is a great thing, but it has to regulated. That quote he used is unavoidably realistic, 'It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state.'

Unless you're from a # hole Eastern European country and want to move to Britain,hell we'll even pay child benefit for your offspring that are still in # hole Eastern European countries.
As for the comment about it being none of the governments business,I beg to differ.
The people soon get sick of millions of economic migrants,also known as leeches.