the true first encounter with the "grays" 1965 valensole france humanoid encounters

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Blue Shift

My favorite alternate "explanation" for Roswell these days was that some of the Paperclip Nazis over at White Sands decided to see if they could get a modified V-2 into near-orbit with a child's corpse or some other kind of body to see what damage it would do to a person, and it went haywire.

Nick Redfern touched on similar ideas a few years back. Human experimentation with an 'alien' cover story. We're talking about a time before Milgram and MKULTRA when almost anything was allowed. Radiation tests on the infantry etc. It stands to reason that some research will have been shockingly unethical and every trace will have been destroyed.

My favourite alternate explanation is Brazell and Marcel actually finding wreckage of something extraordinary. Soldiers clear the wreckage and away it all goes on a flat-bed truck. Alert the Press. In less than the blink of an eye, the saucer wreckage is humdrum balsa sticks and pieces of balloon material. Some recall bodies, some don't. They doubt their senses and brush it all away like a lucid bad dream.

When it comes to Roswell there is only one explanation: the truth. There is no space for alternative anything except that created by the gullible. Fantasy should never win over fact. I don't understand why a certain segment, mostly the young, prefer to believe the unbelievable since the unbelievable doesn't offer any positive return.

No UFO, just boring ol' Project Mogul #4.

a reply to: humanoidlord

as for roswell i have no idea, the only thing is certain is that it was neither an wheater balloon neither an mogul, because there werent launches on that date

WRONG. So many misinformed and unknowledgeable people RE: Roswell. As recorded in Mogul's Field Operation Director Albert Crary's journal, there was a launch of a "regular" balloon flight on June 4th, 1947. This would have been a service flight with balloons, radar targets, and a simple radiosonde transmitter. This is what crashed on the Foster ranch. Please research and inform yourself.

I laid it out in my thread HERE

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

a reply to: humanoidlord

as for roswell i have no idea, the only thing is certain is that it was neither an wheater balloon neither an mogul, because there werent launches on that date

WRONG. So many misinformed and unknowledgeable people RE: Roswell. As recorded in Mogul's Field Operation Director Albert Crary's journal, there was a launch of a "regular" balloon flight on June 4th, 1947. This would have been a service flight with balloons, radar targets, and a simple radiosonde transmitter. This is what crashed on the Foster ranch. Please research and inform yourself.

I laid it out in my thread HERE

Great thread, good reference work. Since I don't have a belief system I can't wish. BUT if wishes could be granted, my wish would be to have enough money to do a documentary or full-blown film based on Karl T. Pflock's excellent 2001 book, and my "bible" on Roswell: "Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe".

That put to rest the mythology surrounding that event.

a reply to: Lathroper

how many times i have to say that the only mogul near that date WAS CANCELLED

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

you nailed the part about it being an balloon, but gulped the "mogul" lie right away
i find nick redfern's explanation of it being an illegal flight of an balloon with an human lab rat to test high altitude exposure effects more likely, the part of the mogul being an secret is an lie too, only its mission was classified, the mogul itself was know to the public at the time and launches were anounced

originally posted by: humanoidlord
a reply to: Ectoplasm8
but gulped the "mogul" lie right away
i find nick redfern's explanation of it being an illegal flight of an balloon with an human lab rat to test high altitude exposure effects more likely, the part of the mogul being an secret is an lie too, only its mission was classified, the mogul itself was know to the public at the time and launches were anounced

You're letting your lack of research and knowledge shine through again. That theory is based solely on the claim that bodies were found. Several problems with that. There's no mention of bodies until 30 years later. There was no mention of bodies by Mac Brazel during his 1947 newspaper interview. There was no mention of bodies by Jesse Marcel in his 1978 interview or subsequent interviews up until his death. He comes out publicly with a belief that the material that was found was exotic, but leaves out the part about alien bodies being found? Use a little of your own ground based logic and common sense explain that, if you can.

So the name Mogul was known by the public and used in 1947? Care to link evidence to back up that claim? Otherwise it's just more nonsense. Many of those directly involved didn't even know the name Mogul while working on the program. Many didn't know it was a project designed to listen for Soviet nuclear weapon testing. Do you understand the mindset and paranoia in 1947 after the development of nuclear weapons and why the military would want to keep tabs on the Soviets? There's nothing illogical in the need to create a project like Mogul. There's far more evidence supporting a service flight launch than an illegal flight testing the effects of high altitude flights on human beings.
Mogul was a real program to develop high altitude balloons and listening devices.
Mogul existed from June 1947-Dec 1948.
Mogul was launched 80 miles away from the crash site.
On June 4, 1947 a balloon flight was launched.
Coincidental, huh?

originally posted by: humanoidlord
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

you nailed the part about it being an balloon, but gulped the "mogul" lie right away
i find nick redfern's explanation of it being an illegal flight of an balloon with an human lab rat to test high altitude exposure effects more likely, the part of the mogul being an secret is an lie too, only its mission was classified, the mogul itself was know to the public at the time and launches were anounced

Nick Redfern as a reference for truth? That alone shows your lack of common sense. How about you post some factual information instead of empty, one-line responses. Surely, you're really smarter than you sound. I'd love to read a worthwhile explanation on what you know about Mogul and specifically #4. If you're so sure and confident of what you say your reply should include irrefutable evidence. Treat us to something you know that we don't.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

thats quite an while to an balloon to be flying

a reply to: Lathroper

nick refern is likely one of the best ufologists in the field right now, being the one of the only ones that dont ignore the weirder stories

originally posted by: humanoidlord

thats quite an while to an balloon to be flying

It's explained in my thread which you obviously didn't read. Typical of the close-minded that refuse to read anything that could disrupt or challenge their belief. Here's a Cliff Notes version: On June 4th a service flight was launched because weather prevented the launch of full Mogul array #4. The service flight crashed on the Foster ranch that day. Because of the acreage of the ranch, Brazel didn't discover the debris until 10 days later on June 14th when tending sheep. He moved the debris aside and paid no mind to it until Kenneth Arnold's story broke on June 24th and newspapers offered rewards for recovery of a saucer. Then he went back to the site and gathered the material and told the sheriff when he went into town on July 6th. The tale and idea it was a saucer begins with Brazel and most likely spread through town somewhat at that point.

You never linked me to the evidence that the public knew of Mogul in 1947. What gives? Make a claim and you should be able to back it up.

You also didn't address "alien bodies" were never mentioned until 30+ years later and neither Brazel nor Marcel talked about bodies.

I find it comical that you think the theory of human guinea pigs carried on large balloons crashing more plausible than balloons and radar targets from a military project 80 miles away crashing. I guess because the Roswell Report was "fabrication" by the Air Force?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

okay you win then i guess
there are much bigger fish than roswell, wich is an dead horse people cant stop beating
in fact there are even other more curious tale of crashes like the bolivia 1972 oval crash or the 1989 dalgernosk crash
would i claim you win if i was close minded?

originally posted by: humanoidlord

okay you win then i guess
there are much bigger fish than roswell, wich is an dead horse people cant stop beating
in fact there are even other more curious tale of crashes like the bolivia 1972 oval crash or the 1989 dalgernosk crash
would i claim you win if i was close minded?

It's not about winning. It's not about validation. It's about doing thorough research and explaining what I believe is a realistic possibility via the Roswell Report of what truly happened and voicing it. All I see are people repeatedly saying "Mogul flight #4 was never launched" therefore it couldn't be a balloon train. I agree, it was not launched. It wouldn't have left the debris behind that was found. A service flight would.

Honestly, I never looked too deeply into either of those incidents.

would i claim you win if i was close minded?

No and I appreciate you accepting it as a possibility. I think many skimmed over my thread and are still stuck in the 1978/1980's mindset this was an alien spacecraft and refuse to allow any other suggestion in their mind.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

i never said that roswell was an ufo crash, actually just the fact of the military claiming that it was an crashed flying saucer before correction is the smoking gun that it wasnt an real crash, they never tell the public about the crash when they know its an ufo, another good example of an credible crash and retrieval account is the 1952 kingsman ufo crash, possibly one of the most credible accounts ever
and then there is an misterious ukranian ufologist called anton anfalov that investigated various crash cases in the soviet frigid wasteland, bizzarely enough he is almost unknow to the western world and if it wasnt for his articles in the old flying saucer review newsletter and his various mentions in albert rosales humanoid encounters book he would be mostly unknow