Who Dare Say Our China Be Able To Copy Only ?

I got two pics to show the next generation of Chinese fighter.
external image
this one is a model
next one is a satellitic photo


[edit on 17-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Sorry emile, but that's not exactly true !

The first picture shows a project from Chengdu sometimes called J-10C and it is rumoured to show the "loosing" contender from Chengdu for the XXJ project after the Shenyang design was choosen for final development.
Some peaople see this as an attempt from Chengdu to get more open interest esp. from the military branch for it's concept ... others see it as a fall-back option if the Shenyang-concept would fail ... and others again see it still alive as one of two designs - the Shenyang proposal as a heavy fighter as a J-11/Su-27 replacement and this Chengdu proposal as a JSF-like programe !

The second picture You posted is a grainy picture of a model kit or a photoshoped picture ... bur surely not from a satelite !

Deino

that new satlit pic u took isnt really a new aircraft
thats the j-10s 3rd prototype

emile or whoever you are,

The Chinese couldn't copy this



even if they were GIVEN the instructions on how to build it!

You want to know why? Because they don't give a damn about quality!

Originally posted by Intelearthling
emile or whoever you are,

The Chinese couldn't copy this



even if they were GIVEN the instructions on how to build it!

You want to know why? Because they don't give a damn about quality!

The sad part is, they can barely make a decent copy of this


external image

Which of course is the basis of the J-10.

It will have inferior avionics and inferior weapons, and it is based off the F-16.

It's actually funny to hear everyone talk about how the China is catching up to the US.

They are making copies of 30 year old US aircraft

let's see them get to this level


external image

before we star comparing them to any modern US fighters or bombers

They are no wher close to the B-2, F/A-22 or the Y/F-23.

[edit on 17-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Ignorance is bliss

The J-10 will have little problem taking care of the F-16 or F-18, it is technically superior and of course is a newer airframe.

Against the F-22 it has no chance... but what are the chances the two will ever face off?

Originally posted by Lucretius
Ignorance is bliss

The J-10 will have little problem taking care of the F-16 or F-18, it is technically superior and of course is a newer airframe.

And this is the point - it is BASED on an F-16.

You can't argue that fact. The majority of it's influence was from the Falcon.

As for having "little problem" taking care of an F-16... I wouldn't get your hopes up.

The US has much better Radar and weapons then China does.

Face it - China has made a decent aircraft based on a 20 year old US design.

They copied it, and it is out of date. Even if they modernized it, the direct US rival will be the F-35 which it stands no chance against.

My motto now is: DENY ARROGANCE.

The J-10 is a decent aircraft, coming close to the quality of the F/A-18E, the radar system will be state of the art, either Russian or Israeli, it will have 3D TVC IIRC.

This will be a decent aircraft, though nothing compared to US projects like the F-35 and F/A-22.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
It's actually funny to hear everyone talk about how the China is catching up to the US.

They are making copies of 30 year old US aircraft

They are no wher close to the B-2, F/A-22 or the Y/F-23.

AMM, you're right! It surprises me that they know what a jet turbine is!

They may have them, but they were built by the Russians!

Their avionics has got to be analog. No fly-by-wire here!

By the time they get to the F-117, B-2, F/A-22 or the Y/F-23 stage, we'll have something that's not even been thought of yet!

Now, you are not only copying airplanes, you're copying (your own) ATS threads.

Apparently, people aren't good at denying anything these days.

The J-10 is not widly based on the F-16, one says that only because it looks like one. Guess what, the J-10 if anything is based on an Indian LAC design it is also multi-role.

Whether or not it could take on an F-16 or F/A-18, will be left to the pilots who fight against em, if they ever get the chance, but until then, anyone who starts comparing the two without the proper trials, is just getting ahead of themselves. The J10 will also have very advanced RADAR, granted it's not the most powerful, and definetly not as powerful as certain American RADAR, but still pretty decent, comparable to that of the Super Hornet.

You people need to give others some more credit, o and while you all like oogling at nice looking aircraft, the Y/F-23 was cancelled, so it becoming production is only a fantasy, only two were ever built. If anything, use the F/A-22 as a basis for making fun of other nations, not something that will never be used.

As I have stated in the past, an aircraft is good if it can fly, fight, and survive, and most of that isn't all technology, it's the pilot himself/herself. So everyone needs to stop pointing and laughing, grow up, and realize what is truely important in an aircraft, Emile has good reason to be proud of the J10, I would be too, but because I belong to a certain nation, doesn't mean it gives me the right to ridicule those whom I see as "less inferior". Nationalistic pride is good you know? But there is a certain point where you have to draw the line. To cross a line and start making fun of others for something that you have virtually no control over, is just absurd.

I really dislike this type of nationalistic pride, because it only hurts other, have some respect for the author of the thread.

This will probably be the last time I post on this thread, this is getting ridiculous.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Intelearthling
emile or whoever you are,

The Chinese couldn't copy this



even if they were GIVEN the instructions on how to build it!

You want to know why? Because they don't give a damn about quality!

give us 6 months

[edit on 17-4-2005 by chinawhite]

it wont take that long to get where america is now. all we need is $$. think about it china is not developing new tech its just making tech thats already invented. the f-22 might be the best fighter in the world now but maybe the tech that went into buildin the f-22 will be in my watch. ten yeas ago 40 gig was huge now i got that much in my ipod

The J-10 might be comparable to the F-16, but I don't think its superior to the F/A-18.
Like someone said by the time that China can develop an aircraft like the F/A-22 we will have 6th generation fighter jets better than the Raptor. I’m not saying that the J-10 is a bad aircraft I’m just saying that its not in the same class as any of the U.S. fighters perhaps maybe the F-16.
To end the post I simply say the fighter is as good as the pilot and the systems supporting it.

I think a salient point in all this US dismissiveness of China and the J-10 is being missed.

Some of you guys that are saying the J-10 fits somewhere between the F-16 and F-18 in capability, and that its a copy of the F-16 (which it isn't but thats by the by).

in previous decades it has been unthinkable that China could produce anything domestically more advanced than the MiG 19, the mere thought that China could produce something on a par with the F-4, let alone the F-16, was preposterous. Yet you are now being dismissive because the J-10 is (as you put it) 'only as good as the F-16' which is, if I am not mistaken, still a predominant front line type with the USAF is it not?

The point simply being that no, they can't compete with the very best the US can offer by a long chalk (even though it is as yet NOT fully operational and only available in small numbers too - some people talk as if the F/A-22 is available by the thousand on here), and they have several more years of research to go before they can even think of getting anywhere near, BUT they ARE making huge strides and they HAVE got a growing economy to help them make further progress, so all this bravado from the American guys is coming across as a little silly. The US might not be threatened yet but it does have much to worry about in the future IMHO. And so do the rest of us.

Hey folks, I did an interesting experiment. I set the transparencies of both fighters, then placed one on top of the other, and OMG!!!! THEY DON'T FIT!!



BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

not a copy.

Edit:I did the same thing with J10 vs. Lavi and...



OMG!!! They don't fit either!!!



[edit on 17-4-2005 by Taishyou]

Yet you are now being dismissive because the J-10 is (as you put it) 'only as good as the F-16' which is, if I am not mistaken, still a predominant front line type with the USAF is it not?

The F-16 is not an air dominance fighter and the J-10 is suppose do be one. Besides I’m only considering tech if you want to put pilots and supporting system in the equation its whole diffent story.

The US might not be threatened yet but it does have much to worry about in the future IMHO. And so do the rest of us.

Not really, as long as we stay one step ahead of them or one generation ahead. Their fighters will get better and better no doubt about that but so will ours. As long as the U.S. doesn’t slows down in development of newer fighters well be ok.

Wow, some people are really mis-informed here. J-10 is not a copy of anything. J-10 is multi-role with limited ground attack capability and AScM capability.

J-10 is much more superior to the F-16 structurally. I'll post what J-10 is better than F-16 structurally tomorrow. J-10s radar obviously isn't the best, its not AESA like the newest Eagles.

Yo, that J-10 and Lavi is a pretty close match and no one said they are identical just too too similar.




West Point, Out.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yo, that J-10 and Lavi is a pretty close match and no one said they are identical just too too similar.
West Point, Out.

Take a look again at the position and size of the cockpit, the shape of the wings, the shape and size of the nose, and the shape, size, and position of the canards.

Now take a look at the F-15 vs the MiG-25

Looks similar? Yes. Copy? No.

The J-10 cannot be a copy of the Lavi. For one thing, they use completely different components. Do you think Israel will sell every spare part of the Lavi to China and help them maintain the planes? They will have to sell them Lavi's landing gears, Lavi's radar, Lavi's flaps, Lavi's canards, Lavi's canopy, Lavi's landing gear, Lavi's nose, Lavi's landing lights, Lavi's engines, Lavi's fuel tanks, Lavi's cockpit instruments, Lavi's cockpit control panels, etc etc etc

No, you cannot put a different landing gear, flap, radar, canards, flaps, canopy, etc. a Lavi and expect it to work. It won't even fit. And does China have all those components of the Lavi? NO! The solution? Design a whole new plane and integrate all those parts that China DOES have into a completely different plane!!!

In addition, the performance and characteristics of the two planes are very different. Do you think the different size, shape, and position of the cockpit, canards, and main wings, are there just to make it look nice and original? No! The PLAAF doesn't care about beauty. They want to make something that can fight better, and that something isn't going to be better than the Lavi if it were a copy. They need to make a different design.

And that means they have to design a new airframe, put the control surfaces in the right places, figure out where to put what component, program the software, simulate it on computer, test it in wind tunnels, then give it to test pilots to fly, etc. And that takes years. If they copied the Lavi and somehow got all the Lavi parts from Isreal, it would've taken them less than a few months and today you would see hundres of Lavis flying over China.

Of course, I do not deny that the J-10 was inspired by the Lavi. But the J-10 is NOT a copy of the Lavi. Because of the inspiration the Chinese engineers had from the Lavi, they designed something that looked somewhat similar. The F-15 was inspired by the MiG-25, and it turns out they looked pretty similar too. But are they copies? No.

btw,

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The F-16 is not an air dominance fighter and the J-10 is suppose do be one.

The J-10 is a multirole fighter.

[edit on 17-4-2005 by Taishyou]