It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Researchers chart the ‘secret’ movement of quantum particles

page: 1
14

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:11 PM
link   
Quantum Mechanics – A Short History Detour

Around 1900, the notion of atoms being made of even smaller things was the topic du jour. The main argument was it “behaves like a wave” versus “it behaves like a particle.” Einstein published his paper on special relativity in 1905. Believe or not, he did not win a Nobel Prize for this paper!

He soon entered the fray. During 1905, Einstein published 4 papers (Wikipedia: annus mirabilis), including one on the photo electric effect (for which he did win a Nobel Prize). Light it seemed moved like a particle!

Moved by Einstein discovery, Werner Heisenberg, began attacking the quantum question that light was a particle.

Meanwhile, Erwin Schrodinger was taking the “it is a wave” side by extending Maxwell’s “electromagnetic wave” theory.

Who would win the race to be right?? (A good read of all this is Crease and Goldhaber’s, 2014, The Quantum Moment: How Planck, Bohr, Einstein, and Heisenberg Taught Us To Love Uncertainty. This info comes from the “Sharks and Tigers” chapter, p. 109 – 129.)

Spoiler alert!

They both perfectly described what was being seen in labs! There was a compromise made that incorporated the “bizarre world of the quanta” where a probabilistic wave with the particle chunks of the everyday world, so they could peacefully co-exist together, called the Copenhagen interpretation. In the world of the super small, what would later be called quantum mechanics would rule; at some point, Newton and Einstein, and gravity, would rule. Out of the deal, we get lasers, black holes, and bad @ss satellites going to planets in the solar system!

But we also get quantum weirdness.

A Wave Function and a Poor Feline Zombie

Schrodinger’s wave function leads a paradox for us at the larger world. Describing “quantum superposition” where a quantum particle is also a quantum wave, at the same time, requires one to observe which one it is at the moment. Until then, it is both! Schrodinger’s Cat is trying to explain this very counterintuitive fact: you do not know the state of a radioactive particle that hangs like the Sword of Damocles ready to pass judgment on the cat to see if it is alive or dead (the pellet will break a vial of poison killing the cat if it has decayed).

Until you look, you do not know if the cat is alive or dead: zombie cat!

Einstein did not like this “quantum randomness,” and famously quipped that “[the Old One] does not play dice!”

Yawn! That is just math and stuff!

You need to understand this about the above: the wave does the collapse when you look at it. There is no way around it! In fact, if you keep on looking at the quantum state fast enough, the wave does not collapse at all. It becomes “frozen”! That is known as “counterfactual quantum state” Correction: Quantum Zeno Effect is when it is "frozen" and comms. through that state is the "counterfactual" part (my bad). Earlier this year, news was made when scientists actually demonstrated counterfactual communication by suspending the wave collapse and sending a “message” without sending a particle (see, ATS: Quantum Zeno Effect, Counterfactuality, and The Weeping Angels).


Each time a particle interacts with its environment, it leaves this sort of "tag," the researchers said.


The researchers discovered that the tags these particles generate by interacting with their surroundings when not under observation are directly related to the Schrödinger thought experiment. Their paper claims that "the wave function is closely related to the actual state of particles." In a sense, they've been able to explore the "forbidden domain" of quantum mechanics by tracking the movements of quantum particles even when they aren't directly observed.

Techtimes.com, Dec. 27, 2017 - Researchers Find A Way To Track Quantum Particles Without Observing Them.

- and -


The researchers found that this information encoded in the particles is directly related to the wave function that Schrödinger postulated a century ago. Previously the wave function was thought of as an abstract computational tool to predict the outcomes of quantum experiments. “Our result suggests that the wave function is closely related to the actual state of particles,” said Arvidsson-Shukur. “So, we have been able to explore the ‘forbidden domain’ of quantum mechanics: pinning down the path of quantum particles when no one is observing them.”

Cambridge University (.uk), news – Researchers chart the ‘secret’ movement of quantum particles.

This news comes out of Cambridge. It is theoretical. They should be able to measure the “tags” with sophisticated equipment.

What they really were doing was investigating counterfactual quantum communication [CQC] protocols. They were wondering which of the two proposed protocols is actually worth constructing. If one has to be at a certain percentage of accuracy then achieving the exact CQC state would not be realistic.

It is kind of like looking at a wake from a boat to see where the boat came from!

What this really does is provide another tool to the slightly neglected wave function. There has been research galore on the quantum particle side. This may bring theory into reality if they can realize it in machines.

I think this was a great example of “the impossible being realized” and had to share!
edit on 27-12-2017 by TEOTWAWKIAIFF because: ETA correction

edit on 27-12-2017 by TEOTWAWKIAIFF because: spelin




posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:33 PM
link   
Wow! I will have to look into all of this, but many thanks for bringing it to ATS. It is like following breadcrumbs in a forest to see what path was followed. I wonder what the practical uses for this information are. Fascinating stuff, if it is more fact than theory.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:40 PM
link   
a reply to: MisterMcKill

I was wondering the same about practical use.

Maybe something like "quantum radar" or something. That is my first thought. The second I thought of just now is maybe something like re-tracing paths in the LHC data (if it was recorded in the first place!).

I really do like the impossible made possible aspect. I wonder what other "impossible" things have been hidden from the public by super secret military projects?

ETA: Here is one direct application in the lab.

The technique would be useful to scientists who make measurements at the end of an experiment but want to follow the movements of particles during the full experiment.

Cambridge article in OP
edit on 27-12-2017 by TEOTWAWKIAIFF because: add quote



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 06:07 PM
link   

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
Quantum Mechanics – A Short History Detour

Around 1900, the notion of atoms being made of even smaller things was the topic du jour. The main argument was it “behaves like a wave” versus “it behaves like a particle.” Einstein published his paper on special relativity in 1905. Believe or not, he did not win a Nobel Prize for this paper!

He soon entered the fray. During 1905, Einstein published 4 papers (Wikipedia: annus mirabilis), including one on the photo electric effect (for which he did win a Nobel Prize). Light it seemed moved like a particle!

Moved by Einstein discovery, Werner Heisenberg, began attacking the quantum question that light was a particle.

Meanwhile, Erwin Schrodinger was taking the “it is a wave” side by extending Maxwell’s “electromagnetic wave” theory.

Who would win the race to be right?? (A good read of all this is Crease and Goldhaber’s, 2014, The Quantum Moment: How Planck, Bohr, Einstein, and Heisenberg Taught Us To Love Uncertainty. This info comes from the “Sharks and Tigers” chapter, p. 109 – 129.)

Spoiler alert!

They both perfectly described what was being seen in labs! There was a compromise made that incorporated the “bizarre world of the quanta” where a probabilistic wave with the particle chunks of the everyday world, so they could peacefully co-exist together, called the Copenhagen interpretation. In the world of the super small, what would later be called quantum mechanics would rule; at some point, Newton and Einstein, and gravity, would rule. Out of the deal, we get lasers, black holes, and bad @ss satellites going to planets in the solar system!

But we also get quantum weirdness.

A Wave Function and a Poor Feline Zombie

Schrodinger’s wave function leads a paradox for us at the larger world. Describing “quantum superposition” where a quantum particle is also a quantum wave, at the same time, requires one to observe which one it is at the moment. Until then, it is both! Schrodinger’s Cat is trying to explain this very counterintuitive fact: you do not know the state of a radioactive particle that hangs like the Sword of Damocles ready to pass judgment on the cat to see if it is alive or dead (the pellet will break a vial of poison killing the cat if it has decayed).

Until you look, you do not know if the cat is alive or dead: zombie cat!

Einstein did not like this “quantum randomness,” and famously quipped that “[the Old One] does not play dice!”

Yawn! That is just math and stuff!

You need to understand this about the above: the wave does the collapse when you look at it. There is no way around it! In fact, if you keep on looking at the quantum state fast enough, the wave does not collapse at all. It becomes “frozen”! That is known as “counterfactual quantum state” Correction: Quantum Zeno Effect is when it is "frozen" and comms. through that state is the "counterfactual" part (my bad). Earlier this year, news was made when scientists actually demonstrated counterfactual communication by suspending the wave collapse and sending a “message” without sending a particle (see, ATS: Quantum Zeno Effect, Counterfactuality, and The Weeping Angels).


Each time a particle interacts with its environment, it leaves this sort of "tag," the researchers said.


The researchers discovered that the tags these particles generate by interacting with their surroundings when not under observation are directly related to the Schrödinger thought experiment. Their paper claims that "the wave function is closely related to the actual state of particles." In a sense, they've been able to explore the "forbidden domain" of quantum mechanics by tracking the movements of quantum particles even when they aren't directly observed.

Techtimes.com, Dec. 27, 2017 - Researchers Find A Way To Track Quantum Particles Without Observing Them.

- and -


The researchers found that this information encoded in the particles is directly related to the wave function that Schrödinger postulated a century ago. Previously the wave function was thought of as an abstract computational tool to predict the outcomes of quantum experiments. “Our result suggests that the wave function is closely related to the actual state of particles,” said Arvidsson-Shukur. “So, we have been able to explore the ‘forbidden domain’ of quantum mechanics: pinning down the path of quantum particles when no one is observing them.”

Cambridge University (.uk), news – Researchers chart the ‘secret’ movement of quantum particles.

This news comes out of Cambridge. It is theoretical. They should be able to measure the “tags” with sophisticated equipment.

What they really were doing was investigating counterfactual quantum communication [CQC] protocols. They were wondering which of the two proposed protocols is actually worth constructing. If one has to be at a certain percentage of accuracy then achieving the exact CQC state would not be realistic.

It is kind of like looking at a wake from a boat to see where the boat came from!

What this really does is provide another tool to the slightly neglected wave function. There has been research galore on the quantum particle side. This may bring theory into reality if they can realize it in machines.

I think this was a great example of “the impossible being realized” and had to share!


Some time back, there were experiments done that were able to show that a photon really was a sine wave of energy. They took Neon or Argon gas, placed it in a sealed chamber, and were able to fire single photons through the gas. At the right wavelength, the photon wouldn't interact with electrons directly (being absorbed/emitted), but it was enough to knock a few into a higher energy level where they would drop down again and give of a photon themselves. This allowed individual photons to be tracked. Never knew whether they did this with that double slit experiment.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 07:01 PM
link   
a reply to: stormcell

Well, QM is using a wave function and a sine wave is a "wave function". I suppose it would not behave differently at the math level. I'll have to check that out.

The problem is the math exists as one thing and photons as another. We use math to help describe what we experience and make predictions about the future. When the math gets strange, like in QM, what do we experience up here in the macro world? That is one answer I would like see come of this announcement! Maybe narrow down the "free for all randomness" in QM.

The wave functions are usually substituted out with approximations or with infinite series where they are known to converge, to get an answer because the wave function usually involved infinite sums. Aligning observation with theory might make the math easier! Who knows what that may lead to?

I might be too old for a quantum locked hoverboard!

I'll go track down the single photon detector thing. I think I remember seeing that too.




posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 07:10 PM
link   
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

We covered this on an old ATS thread, I think it was this article from back in Aug 2017.
The spooky action at a distance that Einstein objected to is resolved if there is a wave guide between points in a particle.
You just have to get rid of your flat Earth view of what a particle is.
There is also huge potential for AI, communications and control involving humans where the A Priori wave function operating within the astral vortex can be collapsed in different ways.

www.sciencenews.org...


edit on 27-12-2017 by Cauliflower because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-12-2017 by Cauliflower because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 11:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: Cauliflower
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

We covered this on an old ATS thread, I think it was this article from back in Aug 2017.
The spooky action at a distance that Einstein objected to is resolved if there is a wave guide between points in a particle.
You just have to get rid of your flat Earth view of what a particle is.
There is also huge potential for AI, communications and control involving humans where the A Priori wave function operating within the astral vortex can be collapsed in different ways.

www.sciencenews.org...



I know from algebra that a equation with highest power of any coordinate is squared can only define spheres, but higher powers like 4 (quadrics) can form torus shapes and even separate disconnected volumes.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 03:06 PM
link   
a reply to: stormcell

Technically that confirms the quantum nature of the interaction between electrons and the nucleus which attracts them.

To see the quantum nature of electromagnetism specifically you may need different quantum optic experiments, at very low intensities, which involve photons only, that show statistics different from expected from classical electromagnetism.

Surprisingly the quantum nature of light has consequences accessible to ordinary people---CCD sensors in cameras. Some of the discrete 'noisiness' is not from thermal fluctuations in the semiconductor but actual fluctuations in intensity because of the quantum nature of light. They are sensitive to individual photons. This is why "full frame" CCD sensors need to be physically larger to give better performance, you need physically larger pixels to sum up greater number of photon counts. There is immutable physical limitation there, no new semiconductor or sensor will be better than present tech with some finite margin.

It is also believed that cats have sensitivity of night vision down to 1 photon per second---humans perhaps 10. It's utterly amazing that wet messy warm biology can achieve close to quantum limits.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 03:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Cauliflower

The spooky action at a distance is physically real. It's time to believe the experiments and accept that something in quantum mechanics is not local.

My feeling is this: perhaps the 3+1 dimensional existence that we are familiar with is a very robust emergent phenomenon of the classical limit. And in this limit there is no non-local behavior.

But in truth the underlying QM doesn't lie in a 3+1 dim Euclidean space but some underlying functional space (where points are functions) that is utterly baffling to human intuition and experience. So the entangled 'particles'/wavefunctions interactions are somehow local in this functional space, but non-local in the 3+1 classical approximation.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 06:08 PM
link   
We did get to play with atomic clocks some so we know that in order to locate a centimeter accurate position using GPS, the satellite clocks needed to be synched about 38 microseconds per day slower than the receiver clocks when both clocks are set on Earth before liftoff.

Using quantum tomography once we know all the marginal distributions associated with different quadratures – i.e. the Wigner function projections upon various vertical planes – we can reconstruct the Wigner function. This obviously requires extremely accurate time synchronization otherwise you could just choose a time when the wave function matched your expected outcome to collapse the wave function.

Many of the articles I've read on the subject of instant non local cause and effect manipulations appear to be a connected wave sharing a local time? Otherwise if you have two discrete systems that might need relativistic time correction whats instant?



posted on Dec, 31 2017 @ 08:04 AM
link   
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I love trying to get my head around the conundrums that surround quantum physics.

Not that i ever really get anywhere, but the sheer contradictive nature that surrounds some aspects of the realm in question certainly puggles one's dome in a sufficient manner.

As to the impossible being realized, well at the quantum scale, down there amongst the foam, whats possible and/or impossible most lightly remains to be seen.


edit on 31-12-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2018 @ 09:06 PM
link   



posted on Jan, 2 2018 @ 12:48 AM
link   
S&F and thanks for posting.. I want to know how Quantum entanglement works.. How do the particles communicate over distance.. Probably many others are working on an answer..

With particles popping into and out of existence I wonder if the multiverse and the Brains therein are the real deal ? More we learn the more there is to learn IMO.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 04:23 PM
link   
a reply to: 727Sky

Have you seen Swanne's thread? It has a good explanation on entanglement.

ATS: Physics We Can All Understand - Part 3: Quantum Entanglement.

The debate is still on is "how" particles "know" what the other is doing over a distance. Some ideas are better than others, some people more vocal than others. Things are still being found out and discovered. Like the OP material was thought to be "impossible" due to a math relationship that guarantees failure if attacking it from the front (using the math as is), and now there is a possible method forward.

Multiverse? Oh my! I think the one we are in is sufficient to think about as is! The "quantum foam" of particles popping in and out of existence, is where I believe we, as a species, are going to conquer. I call it "quantum magic" but it is controlling and/or redirecting that foam is what allows what some would call "anti-gravity". (I don't call it that! It is more like keeping gravity from forming as it would normally do. Like going all "bullet time Neo" but with 3D space converted to 2D space-my guess-using high tech, super secret, black budget, knowledge. Instead of loaded term, I choose, "quantum magic" because this is just my best guess on how what I saw works).

New things are being thought about and discovered in the quanta world so it would be a good time to learn a bit and not be left behind! I'm glad people are showing a bit of interest!




new topics

top topics



 
14

log in

join