Amtrak train derails onto I-5 near Lacey

a reply to: Planet teleX

Nice pic of Mr Rabbit in your avatar

Could the engine damage be from smashing through the bridge side wall?
It'll all come out eventually

originally posted by: Martin75


That picture is the lead engine sitting on the expressway.
It hit something major before getting there just look at the front of it.
Strange unless it did a 360 and ended upright?? Naah

12 of the 13 cars came off the track. To me that took a huge force!
This is one of the strangest derailments I've seen. Trains went in every
direction instead of "stacking" and the last one stays on the tracks????

Just a passing glance, Martin... but that dogleg left turn at 80mph looks
way tight from here, even if it was banked. And the track looks like a
flat lay.
I understand the lead-in angle has a lot to do with holding the road; but
if Sir Isaac N. and I were engineers, I'd second the motion to be throttled
back to 50 TOPS. I mean look at where the front engine ended up.
Down the tollroad and Knievel got the Darwin. This might be a lot more
than speed limits at work...

Yup now they are saying 80 in a 30 OOPS!!

a reply to: mikell

" Feel the tension man what a ride"

originally posted by: Martin75

originally posted by: Devino

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: xuenchen

Did I hear correctly that this is a new line and this was the first run? Did they not do a trial run with an empty train?

This is awful! My thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved.

This is not a new line nor a new train. It was the first time Cascade used the interstate 5 route.

A notice on the Washington State Department of Transportation's website before the crash said that Monday was the first day for Amtrak's Cascades train to use the route along I-5.

Thank you for the clarification. That makes more sense.

So has a train ever driven this route that fast? Surely they did test runs.

One of the women on Fox Business just said that they never did any real-world tests to see if this particular train could handle that track at that speed. All they did was computer models. The models said it would be safe.

If models can't even get something as basic as this right, how the # can we trust them on something as complex as climate?

a reply to: silo13

When the MSM fil;ters news like this and we have ATS members actually in the area giving us up to date local reconnaissance its so helpful, thank you!

originally posted by: mikell
Yup now they are saying 80 in a 30 OOPS!!

With a 181 million dollar upgrade to the rails to handle high speed trains. I think the rail was approved for the higher speeds for passenger trains and the lower speeds for the freight trains the line was originally built for.

The Mayor of the town the derailment occurred in predicted this some time back saying high speed rail on upgraded tracks this close to the highway was a disaster waiting to happen.

My question is when this upgrade was being planned what info did this Mayor see to lead him to his conclusion / warning.

a reply to: face23785

I wonder if 97% of the engineers doing the computer models agreed?

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: face23785

I wonder if 97% of the engineers doing the computer models agreed?

If the train was indeed going faster than it was supposed to on that part of the track, that certainly changes things. It would be quite the coincidence that the train accelerated out of control on its maiden voyage on this line though, wouldn't it? Pretty much the last thing they're gonna say is oops, we screwed up relying on computer models with no real-world testing to back it up. There will be 100 excuses before that happens.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Martin75

originally posted by: Devino

originally posted by: Martin75
a reply to: xuenchen

Did I hear correctly that this is a new line and this was the first run? Did they not do a trial run with an empty train?

This is awful! My thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved.

This is not a new line nor a new train. It was the first time Cascade used the interstate 5 route.

A notice on the Washington State Department of Transportation's website before the crash said that Monday was the first day for Amtrak's Cascades train to use the route along I-5.

Thank you for the clarification. That makes more sense.

So has a train ever driven this route that fast? Surely they did test runs.

One of the women on Fox Business just said that they never did any real-world tests to see if this particular train could handle that track at that speed. All they did was computer models. The models said it would be safe.

If models can't even get something as basic as this right, how the # can we trust them on something as complex as climate?

What!?!?! They even use water dummies to test roller coaster!

I think the Hudson water landing proved computer simulations are # compared to real life!

a reply to: GuidedKill

portable derailers don't always work they tried stopping a runaway freight train years ago and it didn't do diddly and vehicles on track would need to be extremely tough other wise trains mass and velocity would obliterate it.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: GuidedKill

portable derailers don't always work they tried stopping a runaway freight train years ago and it didn't do diddly and vehicles on track would need to be extremely tough other wise trains mass and velocity would obliterate it.

Are you referring to this incident that was the inspiration for the Denzel Washington movie Unstoppable? They did indeed attempt to derail that train with a portable derailer and failed. And yes trains do tend to go right through stopped vehicles without derailing, although not always. Someone who knows more about train operations could probably give an explanation of what variables have to come into play for a train to derail upon hitting a vehicle.

a reply to: face23785

www.dailymail.co.uk...

the engineer had an employee in training in the cab...not saying he was distracted but they always look at these things to rule in or out.... the engineer was bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut...the article says the train was going 50 miles over the speed limit

2 train aficionados were killed and a reporter got off at the stop before the derailment

the event data recorder says the train was doing 80 in a 30 mph area,,,positive train control that can slow or stop a train is not used at this part of the track

a reply to: Xcathdra

Googling the area it appears there is a sharp right hand corner just .6 miles up the line from the derailing point so if the train was speeding they would have known about it here.



Those other two rail lines look about the same age, the infrastructure obviously would need a lot of upgrading to support a high speed train run. The access road that the train slid along doesn't have many trees and it was very coarse gravel fill. Still waiting for local updates.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: face23785

www.dailymail.co.uk...

the engineer had an employee in training in the cab...not saying he was distracted but they always look at these things to rule in or out.... the engineer was bleeding from the head and both eyes swollen shut...the article says the train was going 50 miles over the speed limit

2 train aficionados were killed and a reporter got off at the stop before the derailment

the event data recorder says the train was doing 80 in a 30 mph area,,,positive train control that can slow or stop a train is not used at this part of the track

Wasn't the PTC made mandatory years ago? And not like 2 or 3 years, but long enough that it really should be in place by now? But yeah the answer to everything is let the government do it. They'll take twice as long to do it at 3 times the cost.

I coulda swore I read predictions about trains this year or next year I forget, anyone know what I'm talking about?

wtf

DuPont Mayor confirms ‘mass casualty incident’ training was underway when Amtrak derailment occurred

Ironically, City Mayor Mike Courts and his team, along with numerous agencies, were conducting a training session for a ‘mass casualty incident’ closeby when the Amtrak Cascades derailment occurred killing six and sending over 70 others to the hospital.

According to the report, ‘many agencies’ were in the area planning their day for the exact same scenario as it actually played out in real-time.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Bodies scattered on pavement and side of road. Much grieving aboard ship. Pray for families affected. Tkyou.

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a passenger described the experience,

www.washingtonpost.com...

“All of a sudden, we felt this rocking and creaking noise, and then all of a sudden it felt like we were heading down a hill, and the next thing that we know we’re being slammed into the front of our seats and the windows are breaking,” Chris Karnes, a passenger

this tells me the train did not collide with a vehicle, as some here are speculating,
from what the witness says it sounds like something made the train derail somewhat smoothly, like something wrong with the track,

It could be the result of slamming on the brakes too hard, especially if most of the load was on the engine in front.

originally posted by: markymint
RIP. Looks pretty straightforward. Train takes an awkward curve at too high a speed, front engine rolls down ditch into road, some carriages follow whilst others buckle against the bridge.

Seems like they would have hit the ground a lot harder if they derailed at full speed.


However, if you slam on the brakes in the middle of a curve, then the force of braking (trying to stop that much momentum) gets added to the G forces that are already pushing you off the edge of the track.

Between those two things, you would probably need a track that was rated much higher than 80 mph. I'm not sure if it is even possible to construct a track that can handle that much force.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Mayor warned about new Amtrak line before derailment

The mayor of a city near the scene of Monday’s deadly train crash in Washington state warned earlier this month that the start of high-speed service was bound to end in disaster.

During a Dec. 4 meeting of the Lakewood City Council, Mayor Don Anderson blasted plans by the Washington State Department of Transportation to let Amtrak trains travel through the city at up to 79 mph without first installing overpasses or other means of keeping motor vehicles and pedestrians away from the tracks.

“Come back when there is that accident, and try to justify not putting in those safety enhancements, or you can go back now and advocate for the money to do it, because this project was never needed and endangers our citizens,” Anderson said, according to video posted online by KOMO Radio.

Hmmm... what should we make of that?

People often wander onto the tracks thinking the train can stop as fast as a car can stop. But it can't.


They definitely SHOULD have made access impossible at the curves.

a reply to: xuenchen

!!

how about that. what are the chances?