You better read this...Religeous zealouts are gonna kill us all!!

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posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by hardbodyactiv
So the question is: do you see this event as unfolding before your very eyes and do you not think that if this is actioned it will not produce the greatest turmoil between nations and within nations since WWII (not religiously motivated I know but with distinct religious genocide), especially considering the heightened state of tension in the West towards Moslems, when they violently defend their religious shrine in Jerusalem and Jews and Christians are shot or hacked to death, this will spread very quickly to other nations, especially those that have large Moslem population centres in urban areas, just as we do in the UK.


Er uhm....where's the question in this again?


Originally posted by hardbodyactiv
Call me paranoid or a fool but can we stop this? :bnghd:


Paranoid? Well, no more than anyone else I think.
Definately not a fool. This is a serious subject.
No, we cannot 'stop' this. I would concentrate more on the end of my own time since that could be at any moment.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by saint4God]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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Soz about the apparent duplication...:flame
to me) this was not a deliberate troll...i am reviewing answers and will respond...thanks all for being interested in this thread....l8r...and peace



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Whoa there, up and coming prophets.

I've heard this song over and over again about the end is near. Haven't Christians been saying this stuff for hundreds of years? Remember Y2K??

I don't knock anyone's faith and research into their religious beliefs. But, I just have to disagree about all of this. Someone said that the combined forces of China, the US, and India would provide 200 million troops. I thought these troops were supposed to be from one area. But I don't know much about that.

Anyone can see anything in the Bible. The Bible itself says that Satan and his agents can use it for their own purposes. I personally don't take the Bible literally because of all the contradictions. Besides, NO ONE has an original copy of the Bible. They only put in certain books, and they left out others, including parts that held women as equal to men.

How can you take a religion seriously that doesn't even acknowledge the truth about its Saviour? Jesus was black, yet damn near all Christians see him as a blue eyed white guy. It's not the race itself that is important, it's the fact that this fact is covered up. I guess many Christians don't want all that good stuff from a black dude.

I think the whole end of the world thing and the 2nd coming is bull. And for those of you faithfuls, I hate to break it to you, but most of you probably won't even go to heaven. Supposedly, only 144,000 people are going to Heaven. Period. So, chances are, it's full already. I don't remember where I saw this, but I asked my uncle, who's a pastor, and he told me it's true.

Come on people. Stop reaching for prophesies and raptures and just live your life as a decent human being. I find it funny that Christians place so much emphasis on the destruction and deaths of other people rather than the good things in life. Well, that's what I have noticed in my experiences.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
I hate to break it to you, but most of you probably won't even go to heaven. Supposedly, only 144,000 people are going to Heaven. Period. So, chances are, it's full already. I don't remember where I saw this, but I asked my uncle, who's a pastor, and he told me it's true.



I'm poating on several different threads right now, but I've answered this before. The 144,000 are a specific group God will use during the tribulation to be witnesses About Christ. There are more than 144,000 people who enter eternity with God. The pastor you asked is wrong!



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Haven't Christians been saying this stuff for hundreds of years?


As it's written, nobody will know the hour. If Christians are saying otherwise, they haven't been reading first.


Originally posted by truthseeka
Remember Y2K??


Yeah, that was a pretty good year. Oh! The end of time. The only people I know that were flipping out about it were computer coders (who's job it was to make sure the computers stay up) and the ones in the tabloids.


Originally posted by truthseeka
Anyone can see anything in the Bible.


Except what's written apparently



Originally posted by truthseeka
The Bible itself says that Satan and his agents can use it for their own purposes. I personally don't take the Bible literally because of all the contradictions.


Such as?


Originally posted by truthseeka
Besides, NO ONE has an original copy of the Bible.


I have an original copy....'cause a...copy means not original...


Originally posted by truthseeka
They only put in certain books, and they left out others, including parts that held women as equal to men.


Jesus gave props to women in his time not only in words but in actions.


Originally posted by truthseeka
How can you take a religion seriously that doesn't even acknowledge the truth about its Saviour? Jesus was black, yet damn near all Christians see him as a blue eyed white guy.


I thought he was neither. I thought he parents were middle-eastern in decent. Could be wrong, always up for a good theory.


Originally posted by truthseeka
It's not the race itself that is important, it's the fact that this fact is covered up. I guess many Christians don't want all that good stuff from a black dude.


Why not?


Originally posted by truthseeka
Supposedly, only 144,000 people are going to Heaven. Period. So, chances are, it's full already. I don't remember where I saw this, but I asked my uncle, who's a pastor, and he told me it's true.


It's in Revelation 7. It's the choir that announces the seal being broken, not all the people in Heaven representing. If this were the limit, there'd be no point to Jesus.


Originally posted by truthseeka
Come on people. Stop reaching for prophesies and raptures and just live your life as a decent human being. I find it funny that Christians place so much emphasis on the destruction and deaths of other people rather than the good things in life. Well, that's what I have noticed in my experiences.


I'm with ya. The doom and gloom attitude for Christians needs to go.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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Sorry about this posters but it seams that my thread has been misinterpreted(?) not sure how
...maybe it was just too long and meandering lol. I am not asking to be given guidance on specific religious texts, Scripture or ideology. The religion part is not important to me as it is the impact of religion that is potentially going to create an event of far greater significance. I am not suggesting some "spiritual" event, as I am not a believer of any organised religion.

I am questioning the significance of this event in relation to the response that may be experienced by those of the Moslem faith, immediately in the local vicinity and quickly spreading like a virus to all corners of the globe. Could this be the Tribulation that the Evangelicals seek and is that not why, as I have suggested, this could be a self fulfilling prophecy?


Originally posted by IComeWithASword
How many times has the same prophesy been repeated on this board. As I asked another poster who's belief that these end times myths are real, use some common sense. If the bible is to be taken seriously, it has to be based on some reality.


I do not know if my individual fears have been posted before and apologise if this thread has already been investigated. I believe that this is a serious question and deserves attention...


Originally posted by truthseeka
Whoa there, up and coming prophets.

I've heard this song over and over again about the end is near. Haven't Christians been saying this stuff for hundreds of years? Remember Y2K??

I don't knock anyone's faith and research into their religious beliefs. But, I just have to disagree about all of this. Someone said that the combined forces of China, the US, and India would provide 200 million troops. I thought these troops were supposed to be from one area. But I don't know much about that.


This is not the issue...the issue is the real socio-political consequences of the Temple reconstruction, since this is the absolute aim of the Orthodox Jewish Faith and has been "hijacked" by Evangelical Christians as it certainly suits their purpose.

So the question remains...do you think that the construction of the Temple can be delayed indefinitely and if not, what do you expect the outcome to be?


love and peace from a concerned human, seeker of truth and protector of justice for ALL....



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 06:27 AM
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According to the Gospel of Thomas. Thomas was Jesus's most beloved disciple and Jesus even considered him a brother) In contrast to the other gospels, Thomas - Jesus does not prophesy an apocalypse with the coming of Gods kingdom on Earth, but instead denounces all those who put there faith in such prophecies. Asked when the new world will come, Jesus points out that it is already here, but until we are awakened we cannot see it. What you look for has come, but you do not know it. "The father's kingdom is spread out upon the Earth and people do not see it."

The verses repeatedly state that GODS kingdom is within all of us, and not as the church has insisted in the heavens barred to the sinner by Saint Peter.

One reason for the Church's vehement opposition to the Thoamas gospel was the inclusion of Jesus's repeated warning to us not to entrust our spiritual development and well being to others, be they priests, politicians or prophets.

My own reasoning and common sense dictates that this is probably closer to the truth. I consider myself to be a spiritual person and I cannot relate to those who believe in prophecy as they are literally willing the destruction of both humanity and the Earth. I think difficult times do indeed lye ahead for all of us, but haven't they always. I think humanity will prevail in the end. To give up hope is to lye down and die.

Look to this day...
for yesterday is but a dream
and tomorrow is only a vision
but today well lived,
makes every yesterday
a dream of happiness
and every tomorrow
and a vision of hope.

Take Care
Kindred



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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I didnt read all of your post but if their going to kill me im taking a good number of them with me.



posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by kindred
According to the Gospel of Thomas. Thomas was Jesus's most beloved disciple and Jesus even considered him a brother) In contrast to the other gospels, Thomas - Jesus does not prophesy an apocalypse with the coming of Gods kingdom on Earth, but instead denounces all those who put there faith in such prophecies. Asked when the new world will come, Jesus points out that it is already here, but until we are awakened we cannot see it. What you look for has come, but you do not know it. "The father's kingdom is spread out upon the Earth and people do not see it."

The verses repeatedly state that GODS kingdom is within all of us, and not as the church has insisted in the heavens barred to the sinner by Saint Peter. (Truncated quote)

Sorry about the lengthy delay in posting more 2 my own thread...business has still got 2 b done
....even if I think the zealots are gonna get us in the end, one way or another


Well Kindred, I appreciate your sentiment, but, again, I am having 2 reiterate my thread question...this is NOT about Religion...this is about the control of Land regarded as Sacred by a group: the Orthodox Jews, and the hijacking of this obstinate conviction to achieve the goal of rebuilding Solomon's Temple by the Evangelical Christians and the potential for the great bloodshed, ultimately worldwide, that this will cause between most everyone and Moslems...

...So what do you think?


...Please no more Spiritual or Religious ideological posts. This is not about Religious ideology. It is about the USE of religion as a vehicle to achieve: a) Reclamation of Land and, b) The Tribulation period so fervently desired by Evangelicals. NOT the "Saving of the Christians", the "144,000 Witnesses" or any other Biblical Prophecy, but a true tribulation as a result of this event.


I hope this is clear now, for those that can be bothered, and I hope you can 'cause I truly believe that this is gonna happen.


I have no 'traditional' belief system except conviction in myself. Conviction is an awesome power and when wielded by a large enough group, especially those with a religious 'righteous' belief or indignation, it can be a deadly force of unstoppable power.

peace to you all



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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The so-called Rapture is a hoax designed to get support for a mind-boggling plan to carry out a parody of the Apocalypse, i.e. "Satan's fake apocalypse." The actual Apocalypse takes place over the next millennia, and includes a phase which I suppose became the basis for the notion of the Rapture. Going through the motions of what certain people say constitutes prophecy is not about to force the hand of the Creator, so they'll have to simulate that too.



posted on Feb, 26 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by deorbiting
The so-called Rapture is a hoax designed to get support for a mind-boggling plan to carry out a parody of the Apocalypse, i.e. "Satan's fake apocalypse." The actual Apocalypse takes place over the next millennia, and includes a phase which I suppose became the basis for the notion of the Rapture. Going through the motions of what certain people say constitutes prophecy is not about to force the hand of the Creator, so they'll have to simulate that too.


Thanks for posting deorbiting. I find your post intruiging; if you could please post a link or two to support your assertion regarding "parody" of the Apocalypse, I would very much like to read them as I am looking for as much info as poss about this subject, however obscure.

But do you think that, regarding my original and subsequent posts, this situation is a self-fulfilling prophecy and that there will create total bloody mayhem? What do the rest of you that could care less, think about this...

peace out



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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As far as I'm concerned people who subscribe to prophecy and believe willingly about the destruction of this planet and its inhabitants simply because there bible tells them so are insane and yes these lunatics probably will end up killing us all. It's already happening.

I think Whitley Strieber sums it up best in his own words.

I have been trying for some time to write the predictions journal that I promised in December, but frankly, the news is so uniformly bad that I have hesitated even to approach the subject.

I am no Nostradamus, incidentally. I extrapolate, I do not prophesy. Over my writing career, there have been a few odd incidents of unintentional prophecy, such as the identification of a Korean-made car in Nature's End as the Hunyadi, some years before the Hyundai was introduced.

This journal entry is not about prophecy. It is about prediction by extrapolation--thinking about the future, not dreaming about it. Not to say that there is anything wrong with dreaming about it. I am sure that there are some good prophets out there. However, I am a predictor, and it is to prediction that I will turn.

I have children on their way to getting married. My best friend had his first grandchild a few months ago. I am sure that most of you are involved with future generations also, that you have children who are precious beyond imagining, and that you, also, want the world to continue.

Unfortunately, we are in a time of horrific crisis far beyond anything I imagined when Art Bell and I wrote Superstorm. It is so much worse than I expected then that I almost can't believe what I am seeing. We are well into a sudden climate change situation, but it may not be the one that we envisioned in Superstorm.

This is because greenhouse gasses are rising so much faster than anticipated that the earth's climate is literally disintegrating before our eyes. Not only that, we are gobbling resources at a furious and completely unprecedented rate.

Of course, this is in part due to explosive economic growth in India and China, but it is also due to the fact that the United States, the world's number one polluter, has quit trying to save the planet at what is probably the most crucial moment in the past fifteen thousand years.

What is so terrifying is that this process of turning away from our own future emerges out of a bizarre death wish known as "the Rapture" that is afflicting a substantial enough proportion of the American population to affect the electoral process.

These mad people, and there are millions of them, are led by lunatics who have extrapolated some sort of "code" out of the bible that tells them that the world will soon end and the self selected "elect" will be "raptured" into heaven while the rest of us are left behind by the cruel, selfish and mean-spirited god of their dreams.

In other words, Jesus Christ, the great master of compassion, will transform into the great champion of the selfish, and heap rewards on the few while leaving the many to perish.

Of course, this is silly fallacy. It was invented in the 19th century by a couple of semi-educated fanatics who mixed Bible verses with their own loopy fantasies and came up with something about as sensible as the idiotic Nazi "eternal ice" theories of the crackpot Hans Horbiger.

I juxtapose these two fallacies quite intentionally, because they both emerge out of the same thing: a death wish that is spreading through mankind like a disease, and must be recognized as such by those of us who are not afflicted, before the sick destroy themselves and the rest of us with them.

Death wishes are commonly triggered during overpopulation experiments with rats. Once population reaches a certain density, the animals begin to engage in destructive behaviors that eventually lead to a dieback of the trapped colony.

However, ideas do not feel organic. The people who believed the Nazi eternal ice theories thought themselves sane enough. So, also, Rapture believers I have personally met hardly consider themselves insane, much less carriers of a disease.

But they are, and what is so horrible is that, if we do not act to save ourselves very soon, their prophecies will become self-fulfilling. However, nobody is going to disappear out of an airplane or off a sofa in order to be "raptured away" by the heartless mythical Jesus that these selfish and self-deluded people have conjured out of their ignorance and greed.

Like the rest of us, they will suffer a future of lingering death that will last for generations, condemning billions living right now, you and me likely among them, and billions yet born, of course, to lives that are in no way worth living.

Primarily, people are going to starve for energy first and then for food, and they are going to suffer from unbreathable air and heat, and ultra-violent weather that takes many different forms. It is possible that something like the superstorm will alter this suffering in part of the world, at least for a time, but the statistics now point to a rise in temperatures so aggressive that human activity may have interrupted the climate's 2.8 million year cycle of ice ages, delaying the onset of the next such period until after the heat has killed most or all of us.

Yes, it is that bad. I know that many of you reading this would like to believe the lying rhetoric of those who claim that global warming is "unproven" and a "theory," and that others probably cherish the blind notion that "god will provide."

God already DID that: he provided us with our brains. It is up to us to use them. Failure to do so, in this case, is more than a sin, it is a crime against humanity. And indeed, history will see the America politicians, preachers and radio rhetoricians of this era as having engaged in a crime against humanity. They will be noted in the history books of the future along with Hitler, Stalin, Mao and their henchmen as masters of a dark and murderous evil that has been stalking this species for at least a hundred years.

More objectively, they will be seen as victims of deep life forces that seek to a natural balance. There are too many human beings on the planet, and nature seeks to correct that problem. It seeks not only in the environment around us, but in our dark inner selves, for restoration of balance.

It is from that inner darkness that ideas like Nazism and Rapture Theology come, and paroxysmal actions like the murderous wars and genocides that have swept so many population groups in this century arise.

That this darkness has been allowed to take hold in this free country--this place devoted by its founding fathers to hope and freedom and the extension of human happiness--is not because of a lack of environmental leadership or a failure of scientific endeavor. The leadership is crying out, increasingly, in justified terror. The science being done in this area around the world is exemplary and ferociously convincing.

No, it is not a lack of leadership at all, it is proactive leadership, some of it viciously cynical, some of it legitimately deluded, that has led too many Americans away from faith in the value of human life. How ironic that many of the same people who preach about the evils of murdering the unborn eagerly embrace the idea that it is a religious requirement to actually seek to induce the mythical battle of Armageddon in order to hasten the "end times"--which will mean not the tragic deaths of some thousands of aborted fetuses, but the unimaginably terrible spectacle of the deaths of billions, the collapse of the species back into a far poorer and more primitive existence, and possibly even its extinction.

There are extremely serious dangers waiting for us literally around every corner at this point. The marine food chain is failing in the North Sea and the Antarctic. Glaciers and ice caps are melting much, much faster than the most dire predictions of just five years ago. As an example, bare rock is visible on Mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa for the first time in 11,000 years and it has recently been discovered that one of the most dangerous of all climate change triggers is running amok in the arctic: fresh water is flooding the northern ocean.

In the past, global warming events have always climaxed with a methane release that has caused a spectacular rise in temperatures worldwide, with huge increases in the arctic. This has been followed by a very quick, widespread and fearsome storm--the Superstorm scenario, in other words.

Until recently, scientists have not understood where this methane came from. But now they know, and we are truly sitting on a time bomb that is much more unstable than we imagined in our worst nightmares of five years ago.

The situation is urgent--and the biggest polluting nation in the word, which could do the most to delay or alleviate this catastrophe--is ruled by a regime that is a mixed bag of oil-patch toadies who spread lies about global warming as a matter of policy, and religious fanatics whose attitude toward the end of the world is, 'bring it on, we love it!'

As an example of just how urgent this situation is, there is a catastrophe waiting to happen in the North Sea that could, pretty much at any time, induce tsunamis in the region that would result in a death toll in the area of twenty to thirty million people right in the heart of our species' most vital civilization, Europe.

The reason is that submarine landslides in the Storegga region of the Norwegian continental shelf are caused when methane trapped in the sea floor starts turning into a gas, like carbonation being released in a bottle of soda when it's opened.

Three times in the past 30,000 years, these landslides have taken place, and tsunamis have washed over the east coast of Britain, the entire Netherlands, and the Baltic states.

We know now that methane trapped in undersea formations turns into a gas when ocean water temperatures reach a certain point.

And Europe is not the only area in danger. Similar formations exist all over the world, including off the US Pacific coast and in the Mediterranean. And once ocean temperatures rise another few degrees, outgassing events, submerged landslides and tsunamis are going to become an effectively permanent feature of life.

Understand, I am not writing of a single, awful event like a great earthquake. I am writing of a new ecological feature that will be with us for hundreds of years, during which, in the end, the great majority of coastlines will at one or another time be drowned.

But that isn't the worst of it. That only accounts for a few hundred million deaths and the destruction of the world's trade economies. It gets worse. Methane not only outgasses from the ocean floor, it is released to the tune of trillions of tons from melting permafrost in the arctic.

The result of the sudden loading of the atmosphere with all this methane is a dramatic increase in temperatures. We will see a time when summers will bring vast waves of death across this planet, when temperatures will reach past 130F in many places, power grids will fail, and there will be no escape from the heat, not for anybody.

Two summers ago, a heat wave of unprecedented intensity killed 30,000 in Europe. Temperatures have soared well into the 120s in India in recent years. And lest Americans reading this dismiss this crisis because it's "only happening to foreigners," remember that a great heat wave in 1995 was a foretaste of what will become an annual phenomenon if we experience methane loading of the atmosphere, and that heat wave struck Chicago.

So, this is not really a list of predictions. It is a single prediction: we are approaching the end of the road for earth's ecology and for many species, especially larger animals, which are traditionally more vulnerable during climate upheavals--and thus, most especially, us. Whether in 2005, 2006, or whenever, we will see some of these catastrophes unfolding pretty much at any time and probably with little or no warning.

What can we do about it? Well, if you believe any of the death wish lies discussed above, come to your senses and start using the gift God gave you instead of indulging in the arrogant sin of refusing to do so in favor of indulging greedy fantasies. In a word, wake up and turn away from Rapture Theology. Make up for your wasted time by becoming instead a proactive environmentalist, and give your new movement at least as much money as you threw at the old one.

I know that I won't convince one of you to actually walk away from whatever demon preacher has hypnotized you, but my guess is that the future will: when you are facing what we all must face, then you will come to your senses.

The one good thing is that concerted effort on the part of all the nations in the world can change things fast. But it cannot be done without the United States. If the United States does not recognize the problem, a vast catastrophe is inevitable.

Other countries know it, too. Even China has embraced the global warming message and is seeking ways to control its own emissions. The Kyoto Treaty recently went into effect, and is being taken extremely seriously by its signatories.

Meanwhile, the Bush Administration has effectively abandoned the EPA's enforcement role, and enforcement actions have dropped to their lowest level in 15 years. It has recently been urging delegates to the Evangelical Leadership Summit to refuse to endorse a resolution proposed by the Rev. Rich Cizik that would recognize the threat of climate change and transform the position of the evangelical community on this issue. The Rev. Cizik is further hampered, of course, by Rapturist thinking among the delegates, some of whom actually consider it sinful to do anything at all that might stave off the end of the world.

If you are not infected with the death-wish disease, THEN what do you do? Most importantly, speak out. It is past time to be polite to the Rapturists and the professional liars: every time you hear such a person promoting these ideas, you should engage them. Often, the hallucination can be penetrated with surprising ease, especially when you draw them into considering the children and the unborn.

So, I'm sorry that I haven't got a fun list of 2005 predictions for you. But the time for such things is past. Our situation is urgent and it must be addressed with the clear-headed care that it demands.

Will we succeed or fail? If climate change events happen too quickly and on too large a scale, then obviously failure is inevitable. But the earth usually doesn't work that way. The earth usually gives warning. If outgassing starts on the sea floor, obviously a great catastrophe will be unavoidable.

But if it starts in melting permafrost, scientists could detect the increasing methane before an outright catastrophe takes place. At that point, draconian efforts would need to be undertaken to immediately reduce our own emissions as far as possible, at least for a time. If the United States is by then returned to the government of the hopeful and the sane, we will participate in this, and even perhaps lead it, and maybe mankind will escape the awful consequences of our present inaction.

There is, incidentally, another Christ, not the cruel, death-hungry and guilt-spreading vulture of the Rapturists, but the beautiful being whose words make the New Testament a document of such value to humankind. He belongs to the innocent and the free, and those who are humble enough to accept the gifts we have been given, of our beautiful world, and the intellectual power we need to keep it that way.

It is time to recognize the death wish for what it is, and make a stand for life, for man, and for the children.

And perhaps, for all of us to recall the Beatitude that defines moral performance in this arrogant age: Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

We shall indeed, and our children shall, and all the generations yet unborn.

Take Care
Kindred



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 02:17 AM
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LogoWatch//QUOTE///
I'm not saying go out and join a Church,
because that's not even what will save you.
Read the Bible, find Jesus in your heart,
and maybe like me,
you'll figure out what is going on around us (NWO).

Hi LogoWatch,
I dont agree with your above sentence about the church....
Here is a verse from the Bible,,''Head of the Church(Eph1:10,23;Coloss.1:18)
to which therefore people and angels belong.
For angels, too,
beleive in Christ as the true God-man and serve as His ministers
in establishing the Church on earth;they are sent by Him
to assist every man in inheriting salvation(Heb.1:14)
The first church was founded by God Himself in Paradise,who
created Adam and Eve and telling them to keep His commandment
and to consecrate the seventh day to God.........When the first people sinned,
they fell away and the Lord promised them a Saviour......
At this time the Laws of Moses were broken,
many worshipped different god's and idol worship....but God restored this,
raising up '''prophets and pious kings'''(Selected by God) ....resoring people to the truth.
So Old Testament Church was being prepared for the coming of the SAVIOUR
whom God promised after the fallto the people of all generations(Genesis)

quote//Who was to restore David's fallen tabernacle and gather the beleivers into one flock,
''as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings(Matt.23:37)
He gathered into one entity the children of God
that were scattered abroad(John 11:52)and built the NEW TESTAMENT Church ,
which could not be defeated by the gates of hell(when sin after the fall...''man would surely die''...)
In order to instruct us the Lord says'''He that is not with meis against me;
and he that gathereth not with me scattareth abroad(Matt 12:30)which translates to being in the Church..eg like Noahs Ark
....everyone that was not inside the Ark was not saved.....God Himself established the Church from the beginning....
Sorry for the long post ...
helen....

QUOTE///from truthseeka
I think the whole end of the world thing and the 2nd coming is bull.
And for those of you faithfuls,
I hate to break it to you,
but most of you probably won't even go to heaven.
Supposedly, only 144,000 people are going to Heaven.
Period. So, chances are, it's full already.
I don't remember where I saw this,
but I asked my uncle,
who's a pastor, and he told me it's true

Well if you beleive the words of your Uncle to the words of Jesus Christ then .....
I mean, what can I say.......

''Come ye blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world..........OR
''Depart from me ,ye cursed, into everlasting fire,prepared for the devil and his angels(Matt.25:26,46)

Jesus Christ would not have promised all who wishes to follow Him do so,and then just accept 144,000 which I will not go into because I know there are many other Posts relating to the 144,000
........
helen.......



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:16 AM
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i would agree that by trying to rebuild the temple would cause the muslems to go beserk as they would loose a very important feature to them. this in it's self could keep the actual construction of the temple from being compleated. we would probably see mass suicide bombings and such at that actual location. but in order to even try there would have to be some sort of peace before such work could even begin. chances are only the destruction of the shrine may happen for some time if they even got that far.

i think it more likely that the arab states will once again try to destroy isrial on their own if given half a chance. that would most likely result in a huge conflict. the problem is we have two distinct groups that want the same land. one of which would definatly prefer the other to be wiped out compleatly. i personaly do not see any settlement being acceptable to either side.

the fact that this territory is important to three major relious groups makes the situation only worse.
we have the jews- they are following the "original" part of the religion.
the christions- that are the folowers of the new "broadened" religion in which anyone can be saved though the grace of god and the sacrifice of jesus. this was meant to replace the original faith.
the muslims-who have basicaly built their own version of the same base religion, and tieing in the religion that was to replace the first. by following a false prophit.
i am meaning no offence this is how i see it others will have differant views. each believeing they are correct. this is also overly simplified just the basics. these three groups even have differant factions amoung them that have slight and/or major differances within them. but we could spend years argueing it all out (and have, heck just look at a major portion of religious threads)

now all three religions are all thinking that they are the correct version. this has caused much fighting over the same piece of ground throughout history. even the agressers shift arround. as such they can all claim that they have the "right" of ownership. our currant major contenders are the muslems and the jews. now in this day of almost instintanious comunication a very large amount people in the world have a vested interest in what goes on. and infact muslem extreemists are takeing the battle far beyond the main area of contention. and some are already starting to try to strike back. this actualy has nothing realy to do with the prophicies but could in fact start them to come true.

that being said, there is NO TIMELINE given for the events to take place only God himself knows that. it could start and end in say 20 years or it could in fact take 100 years from start to finish. on top of that we will have no idea untill certain things come to pass that it has even started. no one can jump start it. it will happen when it happens, you can't pull a fast one on God. all you can do is live life to the best following your beliefs that you can. and pray that you are following the correct path. unfortunately when it comes to religion faith is everything. it is only at the end of times when all will be made clear.

as to the fear mongering from the enviromentalist beliefs. yes we are not treating the land we have been given well and need to do better. like a child that breaks his toys weather out of neglect or selfishness it dosn't matter. we do need to strive to do better. but we will not desroy the world. we do not have the power (or are you hideing a death star?). we could have multiple enviromental catastraphies but some will always survive. humans are quite good at that. again we can not short cut God. but we can certainly make our lives very bad. something else humans are very good at.

you see the main problem with prophicies is that you only know they have come true after the fact. if that was even what the prophicy was about to begine with.we could even be wrong there as they do tend to be rather vauge at best. and some are just plain luck unless they were truely sent by God. even the satan can make some come true or seem to come true to try to further his cause. someone even brought up an interesting point in regaurds to the temple being built, do we even know 100% where it is suppost to be built? we may think that we do but do we realy?

so mabe for all we know the final prophicy has started already. on the other hand mabe it will not happen for 100, 500,or even 1000 years we will not know untill we know. what i do know however is it will only be able to happen when it is suppost to happen. we can neither hasten it or delay it. we may think it is happening only to find out later it was just another "false start". it has been thought of as happening since jesus died, and that was over 2000 years ago, and as far as we know it hasn't started yet. as an old song once said "don't worry, be happy". it will happen all too soon and yet for some not soon enough.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Many of your evangelical "Christians" are doing their best to promote the end days and Armageddon(sp?). Apparently in their "belief" that they will be the ones headed to heaven right off the bat.

If I were they I might back off such inclinations. In humanistic terms I say "God makes strange bedfellows" for lack of a better way to explain.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
It wont be a self fulfilled prophecy because neither christians nor jews control the EU , the USA, or Russia.



How little we forget the out coming of the prodomenent Christian faith in the US goverment made ever so more revealed by the Terri Shiavo case the last couple of moths ...at this moment in time the Christian people have control over a very large part of the higher offices of the goverment.




The current peace process underway in the mideast, being chapioned by the EU, has come to mention that 3rd temple.
Many suspect that the western EU, the 10 who have already signed a military pact, are the 10 horns of the beast.


Yes the EU is a large part of the peace process, but let us not also forget the Pope just past may he rest in peace was a large supporter and even more so this was evident by holding audience with Sharon of Irael and Before his death the former president of Palestine and in those meetings a frame work of peace was strickly coveyed apon both nations by the Pope who despised the war or any war for that fact ....and in keeping with Vatican tradition the Pope shall be succeeded by a person of simular convictions and objectives...so the Vatican has been tied to this matter as well.

Also dont forget that Sharon and the vatican have been exchanging letters of negotiation for the return of the third temple artifacts taken during 70 ce to the Vatican where they have remained since and at last check the negotiations where making progress, the return of the temple artifacts have even been rumored to have been offered as an insentive for the peace process.




If this is the case, how can we expect that some leader of the EU is going to control the world?
I for one cannot see the USA, Russia, or China bowing down to some EU leader.
Can you?


The US and the EU are tied at the hip right now ...if you go to the EU website you will find negotiations have progressed to the point that the US contribute soley the largest contribution to trade by a single nation with there goods out weighing most to all of the contributions of the member states at last check I think this was about in the mid to high 20 pertile range...also the EU and US have become like minded in the UN issues in that they are all disturbed by the failing funtionality of the UN under the vail of conspiracy and corruption as of new....I think we will see a joint push by the EU and USA to have Annon done away with and a new leader put into place.





So how can this EU beast end up being the leader of the world?


This person shall rise in the months right before his reign of power he will perform miracles to seal his authority in the leadership of the world ,and for three 1/2 years of seven he shall reign over a peace he has constructed and when the three 1/2 years ends the following 3 1/2 years he shall reign over a warring world of mistrust and manipulation. One of the miracles shall be fostering a peace between Palestine and Israel using the diplomatic channels of a ruling body in the immediate region ....hello that is the EU as the UN doesnt take a very active role in the area as witnessed in the Iraq incident where in they gripped and half way supported the coalition it doesnt matter the reasons ...besides Palestine is on the UN crap list right now and so is Israel for there war tactics and Israel's wall ....the EU however while disliking this war of theirs and standing up against the wall have fostered the ability to negotiate the redesign of the wall to better placate the Palestinians.




Think about what Isaiah is seeing here. He has not seen modern warfare. To him, what would bombs and nukes look like?


Yes nukes , are probably the seen weapon , but lets go a bit differnt direction for a second ....Russia backs the building of nuke power facilities and after they are complete begin secretly supplying even more nuke capable material to Iran and North Korea....now we bring in the US and China and EU which all have stated intention of war with one or the other or both of the countries trying to build nuke weapons and low and behold you have the makings of a war....and what better pleace then right in the area by Iran ....Megiddo yup thats right kiddies all these little broods gather there to strike Iran and they Russian buddies who are defending against Israel who is threatening to blow Iran off the map over the nukes.....get where im going with this and north korea who is buds with Russia ....by the way Russia is Gog Magog in revelation so now you have Russia and Iran and North Korea on one side , then in turn the USA , EU , China on the other side , North Korea and China by the way are the Kings of the east and all their armies which will gather in the valley of megiddo ,,,,,the new babylon is USA which will be destroyed because of her arrogence and the EU is the last man standing and the EU is the boom govermental base for which the NWO becomes a reality.....ANd a leader from out of the land of Assyria shall be in the lead as its president.








[edit on 13/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 13/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
I've heard this song over and over again about the end is near. Haven't Christians been saying this stuff for hundreds of years? Remember Y2K??




Yup I remember and I also remember the Christian and Catholic churches both officially stated that those who thought that way where not either understanding the scripture or where formulating a view not in the best interests of the Church and were considered radical at the very least ....

They did not see realization of their prophacies because it was lacking over two thirds of the needed content that is required for the end times of the books of John and Revelation and Ezeikle.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Drbryankrupta-

My friend. I have heard this prattle time and again. I say this once and only once. Only GOD knows when the end time is due. One can read all they want into "events" such as many have done through the millenium forecasting "The End" which has not arrived yet.

I will not sit in judgement of ye. However, to even attempt to predict an event only God knows of.....

[edited big quote - nygdan]

[edit on 16-4-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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Kindred. That post was EXCEPTIONAL!!!! I read every single word (and it only took me 20mins LOL).....and agreed with everything written.

The sad fact is though, mankind is too selfcentred to see what it is doing to our wonderful 'gift from God' i.e. our world. Most of mankind doesn't realise what they've done until its too late.

I have my own relationship with God (not one that is ruled by hypocrisy like most regimented religions) - I give thanks every day for each ray of sunshine, each autumn leaf, each smiling stranger I see.

I hope the human race wakes up - very very soon but I don't hold a lot of faith in mankind as a whole. I pray with all my heart that I am wrong about that.

Cheers



posted on Apr, 14 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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"How little we forget the out coming of the prodomenent Christian faith in the US goverment made ever so more revealed by the Terri Shiavo case the last couple of moths ...at this moment in time the Christian people have control over a very large part of the higher offices of the goverment"

This statement I will have to almost violently disagree with. The statement above shoud read "At this moment in time the ones who call themselves the Christian people have control over...government."

Yes, there are probably some true "Christians" in the government. However, those that are do not advocate what the other so called "Christians" do.





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