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IRS Nabs Big Win Over Coinbase In Bid For Bitcoin Customer Data

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posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 09:08 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


If they sell and profit sure. If they hold no.

We need privacy fork to make it untraceable. And anonymous exchanges.




posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: intrptr
Under the radar insults aren't working, this time. You whined about how you have to pay taxes and bit coin doesn't. May I recommend another investment, like bitcoin?


But you do have to pay taxes on Bitcoin proceeds. You'd know this if you understood investing. Or tax policy. Which you don't.


I mean if you sell and profit sure. But they even want to tax mining.

I mean say I spend 1000 on electricity and get 600$ worth of coins. Again nothing more than digital numbers. That shouldn't be taxed. Not unless I sell.

edit on 1-12-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


As others have already pointed out, it's not about the taxes - it's about the governments ability to gain visibility into the transactions.

To be fair, I wasn't completely clear about that in my OP. But it's what I meant when I said all governments hate crypto-currencies. It's also essentially what the article is about.


They'll gain zero visibility on monero, if I'm not mistaken. Expect privacy fork on main bitcoin branch too. They'll only know you sold some on coinbase nothing more nothing less.
edit on 1-12-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


But you do have to pay taxes on Bitcoin proceeds. You'd know this if you understood investing. Or tax policy. Which you don't.

I said transactions. Taxes and fees are not collected for that. If you read my post you would know that too.


The IRS isn't attempting to tax transactions which was what you originally claimed.



Yes they will. The Big Banks and the gubment want regulatory control, the banks use the fed to force disclosure of private sales, first.

Then the fed will file charges for income tax evasion for all the transactions to date. Thats how they always take down businesses they don't like.

Income tax evasion.


So you are complaining that bitcoin will get treated exactly like any other investment.


Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar. The Emperors face is not on Bitcoin, Bitcoin is not issued by the Fed.

Lol, you want to go after corruption, go after the banks.

As far as digital money you probably have a bank account, just digits in a memory bank.



US tax law isn't based on biblical quotes.

Most investments are held electronically. Still taxable.

Fiat currency has always been about control, then as now. Thats got little to do with 'bible quotes'.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's hits the mark though. Bit coin is not "Caesar's", thats what angers "Him', them, they, why 'they' are seeking to regulate and tax at point of sale. Currently, with bitcoins 'point of sale', thats impossible. Thats whats so desirable about it.

That and only 21 million coins exist, no more being produced. The supply of bitcoin will never increase, only the value....

Nyah , nyah
edit on 1-12-2017 by intrptr because: additional



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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Double
edit on 1-12-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
If they sell and profit sure. If they hold no.


I absolutely mean sell and profit. Holding issues/investments is never taxed unless they produce a dividend.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Xenogears

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


If they sell and profit sure. If they hold no.

We need privacy fork to make it untraceable. And anonymous exchanges.


Taxes on profit is exactly what the case was about.

This isn't a new or special tax on bitcoin. It's treating bitcoin the same as any other investment.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xenogears

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


If they sell and profit sure. If they hold no.

We need privacy fork to make it untraceable. And anonymous exchanges.


Taxes on profit is exactly what the case was about.

This isn't a new or special tax on bitcoin. It's treating bitcoin the same as any other investment.



The IRS wants to tax mining too or so I hear. Say nicehash. How can they tax me if I'm paid in bitcoin for services rendered?

Say they give me 5% of a bitcoin per week a few months ago. Well by years end that will be worth quite a pretty penny.

Say I pay a pizza guy 3000 bitcoins for lols, but I or someone steals his wallet or he losses it. How is he going to pay those taxes?



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
Say I pay a pizza guy 3000 dollars bitcoins for lols, but I or someone steals his wallet or he losses it. How is he going to pay those taxes?


See above for comparison. The IRS doesn't care about sob stories.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Xenogears
Say I pay a pizza guy 3000 dollars bitcoins for lols, but I or someone steals his wallet or he losses it. How is he going to pay those taxes?


See above for comparison. The IRS doesn't care about sob stories.


Harr harr. Difference is 3000 bitcoin is like 30M dollars and you can easily lose wallet or keys or transfer erroneously without ever cashing or seeing a single real world cent.

Say I hack your coinbase account transfer in and out 3000 bitcoins. Have fun with the IRS. Theyll say you have 30M $ in hidden assets and need to pay up.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Riffrafter


Why shouldn't people pay taxes on their crypto-currency gains? I have to pay them on my other financial instruments and investments.


I see no problem with the IRS getting their share. However, I don't want the government to wind up in a situation where they can break the anonymity of those systems.

I think that's what the ruling said too. The IRS can target gains once someone goes through a trading house and cashes out for a physical currency, but that the IRS can't get customer data and link specific purchases and wallets to specific people.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
Harr harr. Difference is 3000 bitcoin is like 30M dollars and you can easily lose wallet or keys or transfer erroneously without ever cashing or seeing a single real world cent.


The amount is irrelevant. If you get paid in something and lose that something that isn't the IRS's problem, it's yours.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan
I see no problem with the IRS getting their share.


Trying explaining that to the people in thread. Very few seem to grasp the concept.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Xenogears
Harr harr. Difference is 3000 bitcoin is like 30M dollars and you can easily lose wallet or keys or transfer erroneously without ever cashing or seeing a single real world cent.


The amount is irrelevant. If you get paid in something and lose that something that isn't the IRS's problem, it's yours.


Lets see what do you think would happen if a few hundred million in crypto were sent to wallets connected to most congress men ips?(say you connect a laptop to their hacked wifi) Or say the supremes?

Dont like these digital file witch hunts. Someone hacks your wifi and all of a sudden your freedom is forfeit?

How about No! Such law is that of lesser beings that need to be dominated, need a firm hand to guide them.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
Dont like these digital file witch hunts.


The only one creating witch hunts is you with your hyperbolic and rather irrelevant 'what if' scenarios.






edit on 1-12-2017 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Xenogears
Dont like these digital file witch hunts.


The only one creating witch hunts is you with your hyperbolic and rather irrelevant 'what if' scenarios.







You said people should be taxed for cryptos given to them. And I imagine double taxed when they convert to usd.
edit on 1-12-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
You said people should be taxed for cryptos given to them. And I imagine double taxed when they convert to usd.


The IRS taxes gifts* over a certain amount, so yes, if someone gives you something you need to declare it. Additionally, if the gift appreciates and you sell it for a gain above the gifted amount you owe taxes on that.


* I'm using the word gift since you are saying 'given to them'. If it is a compensatory transaction they obviously owe taxes on this as well.



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Xenogears
You said people should be taxed for cryptos given to them. And I imagine double taxed when they convert to usd.


The IRS taxes gifts* over a certain amount, so yes, if someone gives you something you need to declare it. Additionally, if the gift appreciates and you sell it for a gain above the gifted amount you owe taxes on that.


* I'm using the word gift since you are saying 'given to them'. If it is a compensatory transaction they obviously owe taxes on this as well.



Bartering shouldnt be subject to taxes.

William Shatner sold a kidney stone for charity. If instead he gave it to a fan. Does the fan have to pay taxes as if he got 10s of thousands of dollars?



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
Bartering shouldnt be subject to taxes.


Why? If you gain a profit in the transaction, why shouldn't it be taxed?



posted on Dec, 1 2017 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Xenogears
Bartering shouldnt be subject to taxes.


Why? If you gain a profit in the transaction, why shouldn't it be taxed?


Profit?

Who decides what's profit?

If a famous person trades you a personal item even a 5$ dvd, it may be worth tens or hundreds of thousands in the open market. Say George Lucas had a vhs of the original star wars. That'd be worth a pretty penny especially if authographed.

Should someone under say the poverty line be penalized with thousands in taxes for getting an authograph?
edit on 1-12-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)




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