Athiests vs The Religious Conspiracy... Explain to Me Why Believers Believe.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: BStoltman

There either is a God or there isn't . Better to believe and find out there is none then to not believe and find out there is .At least working from that premise I have come to believe more and more that there is .

Pascal's wager? As a reason to believe?
youtu.be...

I suggest you look into these things and see both sides of the argument.
do you believe in zenu? Some people think it would be better to just believe in zenu rather than take a chance.

a reply to: BStoltman

"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God."
Cicero

I think God is a universal concept that all men 'know', however, the form and influence that God has are up to the individual seeker and no one should tell another how and what to believe.

I had an interesting discussion with a chap from Ghana once about religion and he believes, as I do now, that people who believe in God do so because the need to and the reason so many in his country do is down to the hardships they face.

I remember my dear Grandma once said to me "one day something will happen in your life that will prove the existence of God beyond a shadow of a doubt." (my Mum dying at the age of 46 proved the opposite but that's for another time). Now I realise she meant that something may happen in my life that will mean I may need a belief in God to get through it.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No thanks .

originally posted by: djz3ro
I had an interesting discussion with a chap from Ghana once about religion and he believes, as I do now, that people who believe in God do so because the need to and the reason so many in his country do is down to the hardships they face.

I remember my dear Grandma once said to me "one day something will happen in your life that will prove the existence of God beyond a shadow of a doubt." (my Mum dying at the age of 46 proved the opposite but that's for another time). Now I realise she meant that something may happen in my life that will mean I may need a belief in God to get through it.

Another version of pascal's wager. Do you believe in cthulu? Some people think that it would be better to believe in Cthulhu rather than take the chance.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

No thanks .

No thanks what? Not interested in conversation? Or listening to ideas you've never heard?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: BStoltman

"Nature herself has imprinted on the minds of all the idea of God."
Cicero

I think God is a universal concept that all men 'know', however, the form and influence that God has are up to the individual seeker and no one should tell another how and what to believe.

Well I certainly don't know that. And I am a man, so your proposition is patently false.

I posted about an experience I had in another thread several months ago. Instead of retyping it all I'm just going to paste my experience. It certainly was something!

I had an experience last summer that changed my view from being atheist to believing in a higher power. My girlfriend and I had traveled home to attend the funeral of her grandfather, and were staying in our house we had recently purchased ( still pretty excited about it
).

This was after the funeral and she was having a nap due to being emotionally drained. I was pacing around, as I usually do, thinking about life, and the legacies we leave behind and such. As I was pacing, I was looking at pieces of furniture he had made, and some tools he had passed on me. I started feeling fairly sad, and sort of depressed ( not in a bad way ).

Out of nowhere I felt an overwhelming presence. It was something I had never felt before. I could not see anything, but was something there. Have you ever heard stories about people who say they have felt the presence of god, and it was an overwhelming, indescribable, unconditional love? Well, that is exactly what I felt. In fact it was so overwhelming I began to weep, and I mean uncontrollably weep. I was sure I was going to wake up my girlfriend so I went to the basement. For the first time in my near fourty years, I felt a presence that seemed to be made up of everything, the very air around me even. I also felt I was being give a much better, clearer understanding of the cycles of life. It was all so very personal, like it was specifically for me.

Shortly after the presence left, I heard my girlfriend getting up and walking around upstairs. I went up and she knew I was off and that something had happened. I'm sure she could tell I was crying. I took me until the next day before I could speak to her about it. Everytime I time I tried, I would get all choked up and couldn't talk.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. I know that sounds absurd, crazy even. And to be honest, had it not happened to me I likely wouldn't believe it.

Rhodin

a reply to: SaturnFX

You don't have to explain

Its in the title "Explain to me"

he is asking..inviting

I answered.

Sometimes if you don't want to participate in a discussion, maybe just don't post.

I did participate.

Thanks for the heads up though.


The part of this thread that interested me is the blank VS blank,seeing the OP has already stated his position and the explain it to me part.
The "discussion" has already picked a side,which to me, means this is a biased question and discussion to start with.

If someone believes what they believe,let them..in the end,someone just wants to be right which is counterproductive to spirituality in the first place IMO.
Its not about what others think...its about what you think.

My religious beliefs are changing all the time. Being taught it at a very young age in school. Going to church every so often. Almost programmed to believe without any doubt about it whatsoever.

I have never read the bible, just a drone, programmed to believe. Until I got older.

I had a friend years ago who wouldn't use a red pen because she said red was the colour of the devil. She didn't believe in god or religion one bit. I then asked why did she get married under the eyes of god in a church if she didn't believe. She couldn't answer that and changed the subject.

People are free to believe in whatever they like. I would never force my own beliefs on others. I just always find it amazing that people take this book so seriously. People dedicate their whole lives to it's teachings, without any real question of it's origins.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: BStoltman

Why would anyone have to explain or justify what they think to anyone??
Its a personal journey...live and let live no matter what you believe or don't believe.

Sometimes the most shallow river is the one that makes the most noise.

BOOM!!!

are you not interested in whether your beliefs are real or not? This may be the root of the problem. Some people are just happy believing in things that make them happy. Some of us are far more concerned with finding out whether their beliefs are valid or not, True or not.

Finding out whether things are real or not, is far more important than any single person or even a group of people for that matter, And what they accept as fact. For those who are not concerned with what can be proven, their opinions are meaningless in any discussion about what is real and what is not. There are plenty of people here on these boards, who try to join in on these conversations, and blatantly state their disregard for examining any ideas that don't already align with their opinions.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No thanks what? Not interested in conversation? Or listening to ideas you've never heard?

What does spooky mean and why did you claim something to exist in a text that was not there ? We have unfinished conversations ,so to start another and not finish it like the others seems like a unfruitful adventure at least with you . have a good day

originally posted by: rhynouk
My religious beliefs are changing all the time. Being taught it at a very young age in school. Going to church every so often. Almost programmed to believe without any doubt about it whatsoever.

I have never read the bible, just a drone, programmed to believe. Until I got older.

I had a friend years ago who wouldn't use a red pen because she said red was the colour of the devil. She didn't believe in god or religion one bit. I then asked why did she get married under the eyes of god in a church if she didn't believe. She couldn't answer that and changed the subject.

People are free to believe in whatever they like. I would never force my own beliefs on others. I just always find it amazing that people take this book so seriously. People dedicate their whole lives to it's teachings, without any real question of it's origins.

These conversations are not about forcing anything on anybody it is about examining ideas and the data that leads people to hold them.

a reply to: Woodcarver

are you not interested in whether your beliefs are real or not

Who makes it real...other people?

the human race is programmed to seek a God

choose one that works for you; Allah, Buddha, Dali Lama, Hashem, Mammon, Shiva, ...

I opted for Hedonism more than any of the other's ... at an early age of youth

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Woodcarver

No thanks what? Not interested in conversation? Or listening to ideas you've never heard?

What does spooky mean and why did you claim something to exist in a text that was not there ? We have unfinished conversations ,so to start another and not finish it like the others seems like a unfruitful adventure at least with you .

have a good day

I guess you were referring to our previous conversation about Einstein. He did not like the idea that two particles could be joined together in such a way that it would appear that they could reflect their states in each other. This idea goes against his theory of relativity, as it would appear that these two particles can communicate at speeds greater than the speed of light. When he discussed this with his peers, he stated that he does not believe in spooky action at a distance. By spooky, he means that to him, it seemed like his colleagues were advocating that this was a non-physical reaction. Spooky as in not a natural explanation. He was right.

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: Woodcarver

are you not interested in whether your beliefs are real or not

Who makes it real...other people?

how do you know if something is real or not? Because other people believe it is? Or by testable and repeatable outcomes?

Nobody makes things real. They are the way they are whether you believe so or not. The question is whether you have the comprehensive ability to determine what is real from what is merely claimed by other people. Science offers an entire kit of tools to use to come to these determinations.

Nobody knows what happens after death, if anything..
A lot of guesses and theories, but in the end nobody can prove it scientific.
So perhaps we are not meant to know, perhaps we just have to wait and see.

So I not a true believer or true disbeliever, what does that make me... human ?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Thank you for the good and proper answer . Oh and there was a second part question about the text .

While I'm NOT really a believer in God (but I might be wrong, who knows?), I think the need to believe in something more than this life is a personal thing. So who am I to stop someone from believing in God and/or an afterlife?

I mean, I don't have all the answers/I can't prove God doesn't exist, so I'm not going to judge someone who wants to believe in a Supreme Creator...

...Although I don't want them judging me, either. That "it's a personal thing" goes both ways.