Hail Gaius Julius Trumpus!?!

Lol you condensed centuries of Roman history then squeezed in Trumpus Maximus for a small post on an internets forum. It is an Historians nightmare, History spun and reduced to what amounts to a shortened tweet. Caesar alone would require volumes, the Conquest of Carthage immense, you hero treat Spartacus but what if Hannibal were successful? Wouldn't he have enslaved the Romans after a good pillage and genocide spree?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

S&F

I've been saying for a while now that the parallels between what's happening now, and the events that led to the collapse of Rome are ominous and undeniable. But that falls on deaf ears.

All I can say is that we will see what happens, but don't be surprised when our cries for "Nationalism" are actually the beginnings of the end for this republic.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Your OP is not very clear on how the comparisons of the US and Rome relate to Trump and his role in all of this.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Always had a feeling that the fascist were really bundles of sticks

Isn't it bundle of reeds? The material made into parchment paper that they wrote their laws on?

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Spartacus is history's all time hero.

If Carthage had won we'd still have them to model ourselves after, note towards the bottom of the last page I basically pointed out they're possibly the closest operational parallel (in history).

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

S&F

I've been saying for a while now that the parallels between what's happening now, and the events that led to the collapse of Rome are ominous and undeniable. But that falls on deaf ears.

All I can say is that we will see what happens, but don't be surprised when our cries for "Nationalism" are actually the beginnings of the end for this republic.

Contrary to myth, Rome did not fall in a day. It split in two, one half morphed into the Byzantians the other lasted til Napoleon as the Holy Roman Empire. In fact Napoleon could not achieve the title of Emperor until he forced the pope to come to him to crown him, signifiying it's end. Before that Austrians were summoned to grovel for the title. Over in Russia they had their own Orthodoxy that would give the czar his Emperor title, which Napoleon was jealous of.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Lol you condensed centuries of Roman history then squeezed in Trumpus Maximus for a small post on an internets forum. It is an Historians nightmare, History spun and reduced to what amounts to a shortened tweet. Caesar alone would require volumes, the Conquest of Carthage immense, you hero treat Spartacus but what if Hannibal were successful? Wouldn't he have enslaved the Romans after a good pillage and genocide spree?

I agree.

There are many comparisons that could be made between the US and Rome, if we were to boil those similarities down to only what we see on the surface. When you dig a bit deeper, there are many more differences and nuances that make the comparison inadequate.

As far as how Trump plays in to all of this, I'm not sure he does at all.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I don’t think trumps a crony.. just a narcissist who was in the right place at the right time..

However I agree completely about the Gracchus brothers comparison with American political...

The Roman debate was making literally the exact same tired arguments our politicians still use today.. “he wants to crown himself king..”

They said it about obama as well..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I don’t think trumps a crony.. just a narcissist who was in the right place at the right time..

However I agree completely about the Gracchus brothers comparison with American political...

The Roman debate was making literally the exact same tired arguments our politicians still use today.. “he wants to crown himself king..”

They said it about obama as well..

Obama openly bragged about attempting to fundamentally change America, Trump is the super ultimate extreme opposite, he openly states to make America great again by going back to what makes America Great.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

S&F

I've been saying for a while now that the parallels between what's happening now, and the events that led to the collapse of Rome are ominous and undeniable. But that falls on deaf ears.

All I can say is that we will see what happens, but don't be surprised when our cries for "Nationalism" are actually the beginnings of the end for this republic.

Contrary to myth, Rome did not fall in a day. It split in two, one half morphed into the Byzantians the other lasted til Napoleon as the Holy Roman Empire. In fact Napoleon could not achieve the title of Emperor until he forced the pope to come to him to crown him, signifiying it's end. Before that Austrians were summoned to grovel for the title. Over in Russia they had their own Orthodoxy that would give the czar his Emperor title, which Napoleon was jealous of.

I don't believe I even hinted that Rome fell in a day. I am well aware of the failings and falling of the Roman Empire, but rather than give each it's deserved thread, I replied inside of this thread...which is hinting at the comparison of current USA and certain aspects of Rome.

However if you would like to make a thread about the splitting of Rome, I would gladly participate in such.

a reply to: TinfoilTP


A) what year was America great???

What year is Trump trying to take us back to??


B) That is not fundamentally changing things??? Lol


C) do you mean Obama’s actual plans?? Or the half baked “obama is a Muslim Plante trying to destroy America, who is presently trying to abolish term limits and crown himself king??” Garbage??

Obviously..

Anyone throwing around the Gracci brothers has to know a little history lol.. a reply to: kelbtalfenek

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss



Its not a question of wanting to believe. There have over the last year been a series of events inclusive of FBIAnon, Wikileaks and the Podesta leaks and now QAnon. The lead me believe something may be happening. If it does happen I have no idea if it will turn out for the better or for the worse.

I am not a republican nor a democrat. I would hope that many on ATS can see past that divide. I do know there is something very wrong with the way the world is governed and I do know that non elected non accountable intelligence services have had a major and detrimental role to play.

Alright I'm back...

a reply to: TinfoilTP
a reply to: introvert
a reply to: purplemer

Oh I wasnt calling out you (purplemer) or your thread or anything in particular. Just seeing those words triggered me to finally do this warning from history piece. lol

I've been aware of the "Q" 'thingie' since people started mentioning it here. Since it could be anyone that happens to be well tuned in and has a knack for internet showmanship er storytelling, or a word like that, or more importantly from what I could tell the 'person' that is supposedly this 'person' well it could be an amalgam of postings that are being swept up by viewers as being one person, I havent paid much mind to it.

Am I wrong about that potential I'm getting at there, you tell me?

All I know is I've have in mind the past year since seeing the 'Deep State' allied forced openly rabble rousing the masses to supporting the usurpation by them of the elected POTUS, and that to reign in this corrupt push for cout d'etet whether it be an attempt to maintain the 'continuity of Constitution', or it being a design against it from the get (Trump in on The Conspiracy), in either way it could play out along the lines more or less of how Caesar instituted his way into becoming Emperor. So many of the right parallels and conditions were already in place waiting for the right triggers 10 years ago even. I had bits about that pretty specific at the beginning and end of the piece so I'm not sure what you're (introvert) missing here.

As Chalmers Johnson has so eloquently been warning US for so many years now. I meant to have a big section with him in there too but leaned to keeping it short while sort of hit an end point with the OP (written straight thru in less than an hour all in one quick 'take') so just let it stand how I did.

That I managed to keep it so short and tidy and cover so much ground in a one off impromptu style first draft seemed to me a haflway decent feat, but your opening paragraph here is it almost sounds like you're (TinfoilTP) lamenting it? I could do a 100,000 character piece around this a great many ins and outs and twisted dark hallways and bright beacons of hope, but gave up on doing those for the site as half the time they wouldnt get enough flags or comments to make the front page making them each major disappointments as this is the only place I post after being hiatus most this decade (and stuff just gets buried in this site even if they make the front page.

The same lady who wrote the Thornbirds also wrote an excellent series about the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire. It starts off with Gaius Marius and travels through Sulla into Caesar and through to Octavius.

Read them and you can see a lot of parallels to our times even right up to a deliberative body that will not act out of petty political games.

a reply to: introvert

The opening of The Redneck's recent thread covers the broadstrokes of the DNC+MSM+CIA Usurpation Initiative quite well:

originally posted by: TheRedneck
We used to get some choice in who won... not a lot, of course, because so many people either voted for a party regardless of what that party wanted to do or who they chose to run, or because the media kept harping on stories designed to sway public opinion, but still we had the power to come together and change our government if we could do so.

And in 2016, we did just that. The American people elected Donald Trump as President.

Now, in a free and fair election, there would have been complaining and griping, certainly. It was a heated political campaign in a deeply divided country. Complaints were expected, just as there were complaints in 2008 when Barack Obama was elected. But this time around, there was more than complaints...

Instead there were organized protests of "Not My President"...

There were calls to violence to remove the newly-elected President...

There were calls in the US Congress to impeach him, starting before he ever took office...

There was even a special investigation into an apparently imagined collusion between Trump and Russia... that is still ongoing a year later with no actual evidence Trump was involved in anything like that.

All of these had one thing as a goal: to remove a duly-elected President and thereby invalidate the votes of those who voted for him. This is different than simply trying to convince a sleepy, gullible public to vote a certain way; this was an attempt to overthrow the election after it happened, by force of law and possibly by force of violence.

Since you so readily exhibit selective amnesia all the time.

So part of my jist here is they've been creating a potential situation where to maintain our elected office of the President process could very well mean a state of martial law overthrow of the Congress type scenario, to over simplify things.

Not that it isnt essentially necessary (a long time) if we were to ever 'reboot' the nation as a nice fresh start all the old encrusted corruption shaken off.

But even with The Perfect Person to do such a thing it could all go wrong like it did in Rome. That's the warning from history notion I'm really trying to present here. Even IF Trump were both genuine and the right guy it could go all entirely disastrous even IF the masses are well enough woken up up to even understand it all and even IF everyone werent so cult frenzied into this damned cultish Democrat / Republican self-delusive tunnelvision partisansnip. (that's four IF's all basically needed together to have much of a shot at such a notion)

And here I argue we've been seeing the DNC+MSM+CIA literally trolling such a showdown into existence for all intensive purposes. They have been for about 365 days now.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
First off, the obligatory well done. Well done.

The intelligence communities as a whole need an overhaul, cleaning up and accountability way beyond what exists. I understand a need for secrecy in many operations. But the lines have been blurred between enemy and citizen. Heck, some people can't even differentiate between non-citizen and citizen yet alone determining actual enemies against those that don't share their various ideologies...

But one thing I think needs to be said here is there's not enough focus on our congress. People lay the blame at the feet of the president for what are vastly the actions of our congress. All presidents for way too long, not just the current one. We look at the military and the intelligence communities and each other and the church and state governments. But unless a member of congress is being made a fool of or being nailed to a cross, we tend to ignore them.

That's dangerous. They are the ones actually crafting and manipulating our laws. They're screwing us all. Intel has their own agendas and provides ideas and support to the "lawmakers" but congress makes it happen. They attach the riders for special interest groups and companies. They hide the kickbacks. They act the party act in front of the media then go vote differently, come out and talk like they just didn't and most people never look into it beyond that few seconds of footage. If they even see that much.

Shift gears right quick... This may not be the best place for it but I am starting to build my own idea about Trump. I've been thinking about a time a few years back (within the last 9 years, around 5 maybe?) when congress had just hit a record low in approval ratings. It's happened a few times but that time they were looking at what they could do about it. They believed, incorrectly, that if people paid more attention then they would like them more. During all that I saw an interview with the guy that runs/ran (no idea, I don't pay attention to that stuff) TMZ. He was talking about how he had been approached to start pushing politics and he was game. He said he wanted to start throwing in a little bit about the various stars' political stances so people would hear that and relate to it and therefor be able to have exposure to political issues and maybe decide a stance. You can see the manipulation there without it needing to be pointed out.

But it didn't really work. Stars got more vocal about politics but people still didn't like congress, still don't. But they don't really know why. They have vague concepts. "The Swamp" to one means something totally different to another. Enter Trump. With Trump suddenly people are paying attention again. You have people supporting things and rising against things, passionately. That was the goal. The Tea Party's revolutionist slant has been demolished to not worth talking about levels. The Occupy movement has branched into various 'scream helplessly at the sky' movements.

The opposition is controlled, the support is manipulated.

And people are so polarized that most don't even see it. They'd rather just blame the other side instead of taking a breath and backing up from themselves. One goal of CTR was to create grassroots evangelists in communities. Essentially brainwash people into doing their work for them without even knowing it. They succeeded and the actions of those people went on to solidify their vigilant opposition. See our very own outspoken for/against members for sad examples. Self-propelled propagandists.

That was way longer than expected when I started off and bounced around a bit more than intended... I'll just end it there.

originally posted by: Justso

Firstly, there are many more super powers in the world today.

That is incorrect. Their are many "powers", but not "Superpowers" as the term denotes hegemonic (militaristic) empires.

Although NATO does like to play along on US coattails, and we d o seem hellbent on trolling both Russia and CHina into becoming such sorts of creatures, but alas they still are not. After the USSR fell that only left USSA. Right at that moment we could have dialed back and the world could be in a whole new uncharted era of peace & prosperity, but instead we dialed things up if anything and now we're faced with WW3. And Homo sapiens can mostly thank the Project For A New American Century for all that.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I was trying to convey a comparison that attempts to say they are the same therefore their histories will mirror one another is not possible really.

Communication, transportation, energy, trade is all different.

Rome transitioned from Paganism to monotheism, from Republic to Empire, from a citizen landowner army to conscripts and mercenaries. Rome never gave up slavery. Rome divided in two.

The US is all inclusive with religious freedom, gave up slavery, survived the Civil War to not divide in two, retains an all volunteer military and is a Democratic Republic. Huge differences. With all the upgrades and different fortunes the American system will long outlast Rome. People give Trump too much credit if they think one man can bring it down.

Can I be a THRACIAN mercenary with a Rhomphia?