The Free Speech Straw Man and Failed Protest

originally posted by: KonquestAbySS
a reply to: intrptr

We are talking about at sports venues such as the NFL. Since this seems to be the issue at hand.

You brought up the riots.

It is pertinent. Civil rights and police brutality are the issue.

a reply to: MrPitts

Dale Jr. just sided with the kneeling players, he's the most popular driver in NASCAR.

a reply to: intrptr

No I brought up a point in time during the NFL, which happened to be during riots. The NFL just didn't start yesterday.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: MrPitts

Dale Jr. just sided with the kneeling players, he's the most popular driver in NASCAR.

I don't watch NASCAR either.
Too many rules.
Not enough wrecks.
And now this.

originally posted by: KonquestAbySS
a reply to: intrptr

No I brought up a point in time during the NFL, which happened to be during riots. The NFL just didn't start yesterday.

Neither did Police brutality, racism or civil rights.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: KonquestAbySS

When Rodney King was brutally beaten by the white man, did you see anyone in the NFL kneel during the national anthem? How about the Watts riot?

The riots were the protest.

I'm sure you didn't mean to say that the Watts riots (1965) were in response to the Rodney Glen King beating which ocurred approximately 26 years later in 1991.

There were no riots in response to the actual beating. Only the acquital of the officers involved sparked any unrest (which was mostly looting and opportunism...free TVs, Jordans and booze!) a year later.

Maybe it's just me, but it ceases to be "protest" when you cross the line into real criminality.

But, I'm sure I'll get a lecture about how "oppressed" and "kept down" the "community" has been historically as justification for thuggery.

a reply to: KonquestAbySS

The NFL didn't do the anthem until 2009.

Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I'm sure you didn't mean to say that the Watts riots (1965) were in response to the Rodney Glen King beating which ocurred approximately 26 years later in 1991.

Of course not. What is true its that every riot, Watts, Rodney King, Ferguson, Freddie Grey always erupts behind police abuse of civil authority. The same trigger, the same underlying cause.

link

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

Their biggest mistake, in my opinion, is that they thought too highly of themselves and assumed that their "celebrity" would protect them from any blowback.

a reply to: Kali74

You sure?..

a reply to: FauxMulder

Trump did this, not the NFL not the players that have been taking a knee since last year. Aside from Kaepernik going unsigned, no one was talking much about it anymore. I wish the NFL had been more openly supportive of players back when it first started but at least they didn't punish anyone.

What we saw in week three had nothing to do with the NFL joining the protest but telling a petulant wanna be tyrant to shove it.

a reply to: KonquestAbySS

Sorry, after double checking... players weren't required on the field nor to stand for the anthem til 2009.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

Kapernick said the point was to protest and bring attention to police brutality. It had the opposite effect as no one is now talking about that. If the intention was to offend to bring attention, all they have done is muddy the issue to the point that it is not even being discussed.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

Their biggest mistake, in my opinion, is that they thought too highly of themselves and assumed that their "celebrity" would protect them from any blowback.

Are they all multi-millionaires to some degree or other? Because the ideological handlers of the modern left always seem to be the most privileged people in the world.

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

Kapernick said the point was to protest and bring attention to police brutality. It had the opposite effect as no one is now talking about that. If the intention was to offend to bring attention, all they have done is muddy the issue to the point that it is not even being discussed.

I’m not sure how kneeling does anything beyond bringing attention to oneself. I’m not sure he thought it out. Maybe he should have used his platform to discuss the facts about his concerns.

a reply to: Kali74

Players were still doing it well after Kapernick stopped. For the same reason he was. So no, they didn't just start all of the sudden because trump said something about it.

Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett said last week that it would take a white player to kneel for the national anthem “to really get things changed.” Seth DeValve is testing that belief. The second-year Browns tight end knelt for “The Star-Spangled Banner” during Monday’s game in Cleveland against the Giants, part of a circle of a dozen players who bowed their heads in silent protest. They were flanked by several more teammates who stood and put their hands on the kneelers’ shoulders. DeValve is the first white player to join the movement started by Colin Kaepernick, who’s currently not in the league. The Eagles’ Chris Long stood with his hand on a teammate’s kneeling shoulder last week.

Week one:

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I'm sure you didn't mean to say that the Watts riots (1965) were in response to the Rodney Glen King beating which ocurred approximately 26 years later in 1991.

Of course not. What is true its that every riot, Watts, Rodney King, Ferguson, Freddie Grey always erupts behind police abuse of civil authority. The same trigger, the same underlying cause.

link

Not so sure about that... Seems many of the "reasons" you and others hold out as a cause are little more than an excuse to get new stuff and better booze... free of charge.

I was in LA during those "riots." Not by choice. National Guard and a couple active duty units were called in to restore order. There was no larger philosophical, political, societal, -whatever- point to it. They were "burnin' and a' lootin'." At least a third of those we rounded up and I spoke with had no f'ing clue why sh*t went sideways, but they all had stolen property on them.

You want a trigger and a cause? I submit greed and lack of family as the most likely.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

They are high-paid entertainers with opinions.

I guess "celebrity" offers limited immunity to criticism, but it will only go so far.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Wasn’t to offend people the point of kneeling anyways? They got exactly what they wanted.

Kapernick said the point was to protest and bring attention to police brutality. It had the opposite effect as no one is now talking about that. If the intention was to offend to bring attention, all they have done is muddy the issue to the point that it is not even being discussed.

I’m not sure how kneeling does anything beyond bringing attention to oneself. I’m not sure he thought it out. Maybe he should have used his platform to discuss the facts about his concerns.

Precisely my point. Now it has morphed into something completely different then what he intended.