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Devolution of man

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posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Well, you can make that claim all that you want (that there is a difference between Gender Dysphoria proper and "just" trans or pan people), but that doesn't necessarily mean that your POV is reflected and/or mirrored by actual definitions of the condition. Here, let me repeat:

Gender dysphoria occurs when there is a persistent sense of mismatch between one’s experienced gender and assigned gender.

Psychology Today

I'm uncertain as to why you feel that fabricating such claims ("Gender dysphoria is only when a person is experiencing distress regarding their gender identity...") is going to win you any points in what should be a logical debate. There is no "distress" necessary for the issue at hand to be labeled "gender dysphoria"). I'm also uncertain as to why you feel it necessary to imply that I don't have an understanding of the term when you clearly want to fabricate criteria that doesn't exist.

I'm quite certain at this point that it is you who did not read up on the topic...and I even provided a relatively in-depth link that discusses the definition, symptoms (by age), causes, and treatment.

But, I guess if you say I have it wrong, I should believe you...




posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Sakrateri

Gender identity crisis classification is a "mental problem"? That's a pretty insulting derogatory inference. What if it was you or your brother, sister or best friend?

You'd tell them they have "mental problems"? Yes, I got what you're trying to get across.. but you should perhaps rephrase that... IMO.

Well, yes:

Gender Dysphoria

Gender dysphoria occurs when there is a persistent sense of mismatch between one’s experienced gender and assigned gender.

Definition

Gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex that results in significant distress or impairment. People with gender dysphoria desire to live as members of the opposite sex and often dress and use mannerisms associated with the other gender. For instance, a person identified as a boy may feel and act like a girl. This incongruence causes significant distress, and this distress is not limited to a desire to simply be of the other gender, but may include a desire to be of an alternative gender.

Psychology Today

Why should the OP rephrase what was said, just based on the appeal-to-emotion logical fallacy? I'm not trying to continue a derailment of the thread, here, but there is no need to complain about how something is said simply because it might hurt the feelings of an imaginary person in an imaginary scenario.

Gender Dysphoria is a recognized mental disorder--there's no need to beat around the bush about that reality.

And to the OP: You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Nice try. Yes, Gender Dysphoria is recognized in the DSM-5 but you neglected to include pertinent information such as GD isn't a diagnosis applied to every patient who self identified as Transgendered. Not sure how old the definition you cited is, but it's a little out of date and definitely not current w/ DSM-5.

But hey, who am I to ruin your cute little narrative where you allow yourself to be OK with feeling superior to someone else by insisting that they do in fact have a mental disorder based on outdated data and confirmation bias.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Calm down...nothing that you said negates what I posted. At all. (and what's with the hostility?)

My "cute little narrative" is based on facts: Gender Dysphoria is a mental condition, and is defined as I have noted and provided (which covers the dramatic majority of anyone who considers themselves transgender). If you have issue with what I provided, maybe you should contact the website, because as is noted at the bottom of the page:

References

American Psychiatric Association, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition
•National Institutes of Health - National Library of Medicine

Last reviewed 04/19/2017

So, what exactly is outdated? You neglected to note that...please expand, if you're so convinced that I (a) have a narrative, and (b) that it's wrong.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: mysterioustranger
I wrote this here and there in similar topics over the years:

My niche is attracted to women, she´s on this board, too but mostly lurking. She knows it´s not the norm (it isn´t) and she even says herself it´s unnatural. She even jokes about her being "defect" sometimes. There´s nothing wrong acknowledging something that is reality. She´s not shy describing herself that way. Because she´s in touch with reality and knows that being homosexual is not the norm and thus something is off with her.

Not wrong, but off.

And now my opinion, although gender related:
If you think you are a women while having a penis and vice versa, something misfired and you have either a physical or mental problem. There is nothing to shame about! I´m not advocating the point of a "disease" or "fixing the problem" and such nonsense.

Those people are just like you and me when it comes to human rights.

But consider this:

In itself, it´s rather insulting against people with mental problems to make the sentence "you have mental problems then" an insult. Think about that. And that´s what I think about this, bunch of hypocrites.

"How dare you say I have mental problems, I´m not one of those" -> direct insult against people with mental health problems. If we start the political correctness #, let´s do it 100% please.


Thanks for the reply

-Myself-EMT-1st Responder/Search and Rescue, Senior Transporter for the city citizens without issues, wheelchair bound, amputees, canes, walkers, the blind and some with dementia/autism/Alzheimers.
-Wife-Skills Trainer for the county's developmentally disadvantaged adults.

We should try to replace some words and add these to our vocabularies.

"Developmentally disadvantaged" has replaced "mental problems".
"Functional Inability" has replaced "disabled".
"Disadvantaged" has replaced "handicapped".
"Communicative Issues" is often referring to Autism among other afflictions.

These are more accurate and less offensive...and less offensive to them as well...then saying "handicapped", "retarded"...even "crazy" or "mental" or "nutcase".

Example? A woman I know has a "Handicapped" parking sticker. She looks and acts, walks and talks perfectly fine...So why the "Handicapped" sticker if she isnt? If you asked her? She would respond in sign language "I am not handicapped...I am DEAF".

Im hoping we as a caring society will see the differences in people and speak of them accordingly as we go forward.

Thanks again.........MS
edit on 23-8-2017 by mysterioustranger because: spl



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

"Mental" Disorder? You say...I disagree. Sorry

"Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (discontent) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth."

c/o Wikipedia-Gender Identity Disorder

*to add-Gender dysphoria - NHS Choices

"Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It is not a mental illness. The condition is also sometimes known as gender identity disorder (GID), gender incongruence or transgenderism."

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
edit on 23-8-2017 by mysterioustranger because: to add



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: Sakrateri

Neighbour, you must not get around much. Just because you say "I've never seen it" does not make it so. I've never seen the Great Wall of China in person, yet I know its a thing.

White supremacists exist, I've meet (and when I worked doors at a bar during my undergrad) fought with plenty.

Your rant is full of straw men, careful near fire.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 05:20 PM
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I'm sure this world view is common.
It explains at lot.
What a fine mess.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Sorry, I was on my phone when I made that comment. Usually I post Citations.

Yes, Gender Dysphoria is exclusively when distress is evident, that's why it's Dysphoria (the word 'Dysphoria' means: a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction)

Here, this is from the link you provided from PsychologyToday:

~ Gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex that results in significant distress or impairment.
link

Here are a few other links

~ Psychiatry.org: Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify.

~ Wikipedia: Gender dysphoria, or gender identity disorder (GID), is the distress a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth.

~ The DSM Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Identity Disorder in Adolescents and Adults .... Although the terminology and place of the gender identity disorders in the DSM have varied in the different versions, the distress about one’s assigned sex has remained, since DSM-III.



SlapMonkey I'm also uncertain as to why you feel it necessary to imply that I don't have an understanding of the term when you clearly want to fabricate criteria that doesn't exist.


So yes, it appears as though you do not understand the term.
edit on 23/8/17 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 08:25 PM
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Psychiatry has given us 450 diagnoseable conditions
It cant cure any of them
The lunatics are now taking over the asylum
Buy a glock and start tactical training
fat balding sociopaths in tailor made suits aren't running the show forever



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

Thanks for the Citations. I'm out here of town til Saturday night and have sporadic wifi and only have access from my phone until then I'm or else I would have covered that earlier. You know me and my love of citations and I have
Some bookmarked from a previous thread on GD being a mental illness so thanks for killing 2 birds w one stone.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 03:38 AM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale
a reply to: Sapphire




Things wont change until people do, and i hope it's within my lifetime.


you are a person, right?


Things wont change unless people change, its true.

However, its almost a crime to say this and not realize what it means.

If you want to see things change its starts from within.

The people that need to see change to change things are the ones saying others need to change when in fact the only real change can be done to themselves, then they will see the changes in the world when they change themselves.



No, I'm a resurrected Queen, why do you ask?

What didn't register with you about my statement? Did you not comprehend what i said?

I'll say it again, Change comes from within. I'm not seeing a lot of that from others, that was my intent on saying what i did. I'm sorry you didn't understand that. Not my problem.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 10:07 AM
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a reply to: Sapphire




No, I'm a resurrected Queen, why do you ask?


A queen is a title, So no, you are not a person?

Well then I guess forget about what I said as it refers to people not non human queens.




What didn't register with you about my statement?


Nothing, it was crystal clear.




Did you not comprehend what i said?


Yes, hence why I replied.

If I didn't comprehend what you said I would have asked for you to clarify.




I'll say it again, Change comes from within.


I agree it does, that is why I posted it and you didn't, you were posting about changes in others.

You are not saying this again, at least not in this thread.




I'm not seeing a lot of that from others, that was my intent on saying what i did.


So change comes from within as you also agree yet you are looking for change in external sources?

Yes , I know it was your intent on saying what you did, that is why I replied as I did.




I'm sorry you didn't understand that.




I understood just fine, you seem confused on thinking you said things you didn't say but in fact I actually said in my reply to you.




Not my problem.


Its obvious there are issues with knowing what you actually posted and thinking what you posted.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger

Fine, it's a medical condition (which includes mental disorders) that is generally diagnosed and treated by psychologists.

Way to focus on the tiny detail that doesn't really matter--but the big picture still remains the same. It's a recognized condition that can be diagnosed, has symptoms and causes, and can be treated.

Also, to be fair, U.S. medical definitions and U.K. medical definitions aren't always exactly the same, nor are the conditions diagnosed or treated the same, either. Bringing a definition from the U.K. into the mix doesn't really mean much when I'm from the U.S. and am arguing my point in the U.S. using U.S. definitions and medical documents.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Me too as well....and I work in an ambulance every day. Words and terminology are important to distinguish explanations and descriptions of symptoms.

It is important to be accurate. Try being in Dearborn Mi here....half the time...we have to figure out WHAT they mean because they can't/don't/won't DESCRIBE it accurately.....



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 08:42 AM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger

I fully understand your point about terminology, for sure, hence my point that a U.K. definition isn't always the same as a U.S. one.

I spent my military career as a paralegal, and grew up with a mom who was an E.R. nurse who actually taught EMT classes and wrote a few medical instructional books, and I have had it drilled into my head that terminology matters, especially when it comes to legal and medical issues.

Regardless of our difference of opinion on the specifics, thanks for doing what you do.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: mysterioustranger
Somehow I managed to oversee your response..

I´m not arguing about definitions again, but I see nothing nefarios with the word "handicap" because I myself am "handicapped" to a degree. It means for me, when it comes to hearing, I "cap out" at a certain level where others do not.

I also do not understand this: There is the word "behindert" in German, the english equivalent is "disabled". Translated, it means that someone who is "behindert", has to bear being "hindered" (this is another english synonym) in some situations. A perfect description of somebody who his hindered doing x or y, by his condition.

So someone in a wheelchair, it means, stairs etc hinder them from the same quality of life like someone who is able to overcome the stairs. For me it´s a perfect description of the situation and does not blame or pander the individuum who is affected by the condition.

Somehow, that´s now seens as rude. So they replaced the signs for the parking slots that said "Behindertenparkplatz" with a wheel chair. You know who started this? People that have no condition at all but thought they know what´s best for a third party. You may ask yourself why they did this then and I can only speculate that feelings were involved here.

And that´s why I can´t stand the reasoning and mindset of most "example"-liberals and left oriented people. It´s like the upperclass white guilt millenials who get all riled up at a BLM because they think they need to protect or help because of some missguided sense of guilt or just to feel good. They are all overemotional if you look at most of those videos. The crazyness is in their eyes and that´s why I think they get "triggered" so easy.

Liberal means something completely different in Europe.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Sakrateri

So much wrong with this thread... I don't know where to begin. o.O



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
Just give it a try.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

We're good... No issues.. Just points of view!



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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a reply to: verschickter

I got ya!


Interesting how terminology differs. In golf gaming... players have a "handicap"!

I am catching myself at work these days so as to not offend...not that it really would..

Good example? Young man today is legally blind... or is "visually impaired"!

Thanks for the reply! Best, MS



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