OBAMACARE is Responsible For Making Middle and Upper-Middle Class Americans SICKER.

a reply to: carewemust

a reply to: seasonal


It seems to me that the U.S. should partner with Mexico. American citizens should be allowed to go to Mexico as they please, for that really inexpensive healthcare.

That is what your chart is showing...right? The cost of healthcare in each country?

a reply to: carewemust

Medical tourism is a growing trend.

originally posted by: lordcomac
Screw the upper and middle class, the average person is avoiding regular doctor visits due to the cost.

I don't blame the last admin, but he had the choice- he could have restricted health insurance, but instead enforced it- made it worse.

Insurance is the problem, not the solution. Ban it.

Banning insurance will only screw people who have chronic or life threatening conditions that require continuous treatment and monitoring. Those people need the security of insurance because the out of pocket cost would result in a whole lot of people dying from treatable conditions. Diabetics, cardiac patients, people with COPD and asthma...there are millions of them out there. We don't need to ban it. Insurance is a literal life saver for a lot of Americans.

What we need to do is make it an option rather than a requirement. Costs and coverage will both improve if insurance is optional. It would suck for all the greedy insurance companies, but I think it's safe to say they've had their fun plenty enough sucking the life out of hardworking Americans. Don't ban them. Just pull them off the government tit.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

Medical tourism is a growing trend.

If I had no insurance, a decent income, and needed an expensive procedure that yields good results to Mexican patients, I'd HEAD south of the border to get it done. (Lots of factors to consider though.)

a reply to: tigertatzen

Don't the insurance companies pay the hospitals for the insured?

Meaning that the more the hospitals charge the more insurance costs? Wouldn't a small insurance pool of only the sick make cost go up?

Seems that hospital cost in the US are remarkably higher than in other indust countries. This leads to high insurance premiums. And neither the insurance or hospitals are complaining, it is about $$$$$.

a reply to: tigertatzen

The only insurance companies making money off of ObamaCare are the few that administer the ObamaCare MEDICAID program. (Centene, Aetna, United Healthcare) Record profits, courtesy of the American taxpayer, is being reported by those 3 nipple suckers. (But it's the government's fault for paying them so lucratively!)

a reply to: carewemust

Thank you for the heads up. She has always claimed her at tax time anyhow. Being a "Single Mother " has it's advantages.

Unfortunately for us we are not the type of family that likes to abuse the system so we don't have our hands out not do we try to get anything.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: carewemust

Thank you for the heads up. She has always claimed her at tax time anyhow. Being a "Single Mother " has it's advantages.

Unfortunately for us we are not the type of family that likes to abuse the system so we don't have our hands out not do we try to get anything.

You're not "abusing the system", ZeroDoubleHero. You're utilizing the IRS-ObamaCare rules to benefit your family. Just be thankful that you have that initiative within yourself. People who lack it often end up paying dearly.

a reply to: seasonal

Hospital costs have risen as a direct result of insurance being a required thing. The reason for that is people who cannot afford healthcare have resorted to abuse of the EMTALA, and are habitually using hospital emergency departments as their primary care facilities. It's not their fault...I mean, if you're below a certain income, yet not enough to be exempt or qualify for assistance, and you've got a sick kid who needs medical treatment, what are ya gonna do?

Instead of having optional insurance, you've got people who are forced to pay more than their monthly rent in premiums...yet have deductibles that are impossible to meet before any real coverage kicks in. That means not only do they have to put out money for coverage they never see, but they also have nothing left over to pay for prescriptions at full cost because there's a deductible for that too.

So they go to the ER, where they cannot be turned away, even for a sniffle, by federal law, and where they not only don't have to pay anything up front...they also don't have to pay the bill when it comes, because the worst that can happen if they don't is a judgement on their credit score.

Their care is essentially free, and they're better able to afford any prescriptions given to them at the time of their visit because they're not paying a copay or a treatment fee. Insurance can't get jack from these people, so they stick it to everyone else instead, and hospitals being the lucrative businesses they are take advantage of that by raising costs for everyone else to compensate for the loss taken by those pesky EMTALA smarties who've figured out the system.

I'm not saying this is the sole reason, or even that it's the biggest reason. It is a big part of the problem, however, and I don't think enough attention is being given to it. Hospitals are always going to hose the consumer on costs, but the forced system is causing people to act out of desperation rather than choice, and it affects everyone else in ways that don't really get talked about too much in the news. This is one of those issues.

a reply to: tigertatzen

makes sense

a reply to: carewemust

They're making plenty of money off employers and employees who are forced to provide and retain coverage against their will, though. It's not just the cost to taxpayers. The premiums these sharks are charging are crippling families...that money goes right into the insurance companies' pockets. And it's hurting smaller businesses too, because they're required to give these "benefits"...it's not free for them. They can get discounts with health incentive programs, but that incurs cost too. It's only truly worth it for large companies with masses of employees.

They don't say "kickbacks" anymore because it's a dirty word these days. But it still happens, and it happens a lot in healthcare in this country. One hand washes the other. The biggest mistake anyone can make is thinking of hospitals and their medical affiliates as anything other than big business organizations. They don't like each other, but they all eat out of the same trough.

Insurance companies always make their money, and the hospital and pharmaceutical corporations operate in tandem with them. The only people not invited to the party are the ones shelling out all that money, and that is entirely by design.

a reply to: tigertatzen


Here in Illinois, the largest insurer is Blue Cross. 80% of their revenue comes from Employer/Employee business. They still lost $256 million dollars due to ObamaCare non-employer medical claims costing so much. And that's after a 38% premium increase that went into effect. The company just laid off 60% of their workforce, rather than withdraw from the Illinois ObamaCare business, like every other company has done.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: carewemust

Thank you for the heads up. She has always claimed her at tax time anyhow. Being a "Single Mother " has it's advantages.

Unfortunately for us we are not the type of family that likes to abuse the system so we don't have our hands out not do we try to get anything.

You're not "abusing the system", ZeroDoubleHero. You're utilizing the IRS-ObamaCare rules to benefit your family. Just be thankful that you have that initiative within yourself. People who lack it often end up paying dearly.

Very true, maybe it's just my upbringing.

And trust me I have been paying big $ for the last 3 and a half years my daughter has been alive. Add to that one knee surgery and that is a sure fire way to go poor very quickly.

Not to mention I work for a small family business and they contribute towards my insurance but can only do so much. It's too much for all of us. I don't know how people afford it. Heck I can't.

Honestly I wish we did it sooner.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: carewemust

Thank you for the heads up. She has always claimed her at tax time anyhow. Being a "Single Mother " has it's advantages.

Unfortunately for us we are not the type of family that likes to abuse the system so we don't have our hands out not do we try to get anything.

You're not "abusing the system", ZeroDoubleHero. You're utilizing the IRS-ObamaCare rules to benefit your family. Just be thankful that you have that initiative within yourself. People who lack it often end up paying dearly.

Very true, maybe it's just my upbringing.

And trust me I have been paying big $ for the last 3 and a half years my daughter has been alive. Add to that one knee surgery and that is a sure fire way to go poor very quickly.

Not to mention I work for a small family business and they contribute towards my insurance but can only do so much. It's too much for all of us. I don't know how people afford it. Heck I can't.

Honestly I wish we did it sooner.

You're very fortunate to have group/employer health insurance. Those who have individually purchased ObamaCare plans find that their medical network is shrinking every year. Here in Illinois 97% of Doctors/Hospitals accept Employer health insurance. Only 60% accept patients with individually purchased Obamacare plans. That percentage will shrink further for 2018.

I'm hoping that John McCain has wised-up and will at least vote to allow Free-Market health insurance again. Those who are lower income can stay on heavily subsidized ObamaCare. But let everyone in the middle/upper-middle income range buy whatever health insurance they want, and can afford.

Another clever guise of Obama admin,send the middle class into debt,not everyone has the 12k deductable for a surgery,in their wallet,middle class has to take a loan,putting them further in debt,eventually they will have debtors prison,another social engineered project of the NWO

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: carewemust

Thank you for the heads up. She has always claimed her at tax time anyhow. Being a "Single Mother " has it's advantages.

Unfortunately for us we are not the type of family that likes to abuse the system so we don't have our hands out not do we try to get anything.

You're not "abusing the system", ZeroDoubleHero. You're utilizing the IRS-ObamaCare rules to benefit your family. Just be thankful that you have that initiative within yourself. People who lack it often end up paying dearly.

Very true, maybe it's just my upbringing.

And trust me I have been paying big $ for the last 3 and a half years my daughter has been alive. Add to that one knee surgery and that is a sure fire way to go poor very quickly.

Not to mention I work for a small family business and they contribute towards my insurance but can only do so much. It's too much for all of us. I don't know how people afford it. Heck I can't.

Honestly I wish we did it sooner.

You're very fortunate to have group/employer health insurance. Those who have individually purchased ObamaCare plans find that their medical network is shrinking every year. Here in Illinois 97% of Doctors/Hospitals accept Employer health insurance. Only 60% accept patients with individually purchased Obamacare plans. That percentage will shrink further for 2018.

I'm hoping that John McCain has wised-up and will at least vote to allow Free-Market health insurance again. Those who are lower income can stay on heavily subsidized ObamaCare. But let everyone in the middle/upper-middle income range buy whatever health insurance they want, and can afford.

It's just crazy man it's almost like you're better off being poor. Being middle class you just get stepped on from both ends. Pushing us closer to the poverty line with out help.

I don't want help though, just a fair chance.

a reply to: carewemust

Dude, your source game is WEAK:

American Thinker (affectionately nicknamed "American Stinker" by its fans) is an online wingnut publication that's more or less the poor man's WND or Newsmax. They've published articles by such conservative luminaries as Noel Sheppard (NewsBusters) and Pamela Geller and such climate "experts" as S. Fred Singer and Christopher Monckton, as well as an interview with (and hagiography of) white nationalist Jared Taylor.[2]

The magazine, of course, is chock-full of right-wing conspiracy theories, woo, and pseudoscience. On the conspiracy side, they promote birtherism, "creeping sharia," red-baiting, and still occasionally prattle on about Vince Foster. On the science side, they concentrate on creationism and global warming denialism.

rationalwiki.org...

These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.

Factual Reporting: MIXED

Notes: American Thinker is a conservative daily online magazine dealing with American politics, foreign policy, national security, Israel, economics, diplomacy, culture and military strategy. The American Thinker demonstrates a right bias through wording and story selection. They have also failed a few fact checks such as this one. (7/18/2016) Updated (6/26/2017)

mediabiasfactcheck.com...

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
Another clever guise of Obama admin,send the middle class into debt,not everyone has the 12k deductable for a surgery,in their wallet,middle class has to take a loan,putting them further in debt,eventually they will have debtors prison,another social engineered project of the NWO

I was amazed to learn how many people and families have been forced from "middle-class" to "upper-lower" class by the Obama economy. Meanwhile, the number of Americans taking exotic vacations is at an all-time high..and they're not millionaires. Some kind of shift has been occurring. Not sure what to call it though. Maybe just "survival of the smartest"?

a reply to: GetHyped


The "American Thinker" article resonated because it reinforced what I see day-to-day in my insurance/financial career. That's why I posted it. Other than that, I know nothing about the background of it's authors. Not important for this thread anyway.